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Post by drystyx on Jan 28, 2019 15:12:26 GMT
I don't remember how many years ago it was made public, maybe two, maybe twelve, but there was a scientific experiment in which teleportation of an atom or two was successful.
Actually, the atom, or perhaps even a molecule, was somehow annihilated in one spot, and caused to appear far away in another spot.
This let to the fact that teleportation was possible in the essence of what was observed from outside the matter, and theoretically, given advanced technology, this cold be done with larger masses, and even living things some day.
The reality is that the identical object would be duplicated.
So, even if we never have the technology to do it, it's shown that if a human being is annihilated as in the experiment, and then very same body duplicated a mile away, with all the nerve cells duplicated, all the microbes, all the millions of germs, all the cells, all the very same exact bits of perception in the brain, all the same everything, even the very breath being taken at that instant, the very movement of the heart beat, the inhale and exhale all totally the same, with the eyes suddenly seeing one reality and then another, everything identical.
,
If that is all duplicated, would the same soul or spirit, or to be accurate, the "meter reader" which has the cognition be
It would be the same to observers, but would it be the same to the observed?
Logically, we do have a basis for understanding this. Nature already has clones of some people. They're called "identical twins". Now, at some point, each identical twin has something happen to differentiate the twin to an observer, even if it's something microscopic that has to be seen under an electron microscope.
However, the reality is that both identical twins could experience identical environment, identical pressure on identical bits of their bodies, and be identical for some time.
If one believes that the teleported person is the same, one would logically believe the identical twin is the same person, in two places at one time. So, unless identical twins through History have all been part of a great conspiracy and kept this secret, we're sure that's not the case.
Not 100% sure, but if the "meter reader" is in two places at once, then we have to admit the soul or spirit or cognition or "meter reader" of the brain and nerves isn't dependent on the human organism and the millions of organisms that actually make up the human organism.
But, if the "meter reader" is different when teleported, and only imagines it is the same, then we have the identical body with a separate meter reader, which again proves the "meter reader" is not dependent on the human body. If the body is annihilated, then the soul or spirit or cognition which we call the "meter reader" is not a part of the organisms that make up the human body.
In effect, we have what common sense told wiser people in ancient days, that the soul is not the body. Perhaps it is annihilated some how, but the annihilation has absolutely nothing to do with the body.
Knowing this, the wise person wants to prepare for an after life, or more aptly, an after-experience. What does the meter reader read? Does some powerful supernatural force annihilate it? If so, then it doesn't matter. If not, how does one prepare?
Of all the religions in the world, only the one provided by Jesus stands out as being totally unbiased and without personal incentive. Sure, the papacy turned it into a political force, but that wasn't what was in the gospels by any stretch of the imagination. There was little incentive in twelve guys giving up the notion of looking for a Messiah among the families of the four brothers of Jesus we knew of instead of telling a story they absolutely knew would get them burned alive, flayed alive, stoned, crucified, or beheaded. One could make the case for the later disciple, Saul of Tarsus, for being sado-masochistic, but not fishermen on the sea of Galilee who couldn't have survived one fishing season if they had masochistic tendencies.
Thus, logic tells us that Jesus gave the best way to prepare. His message was clearly about control. Over 80% of his teaching was about concerning oneself with one's own control over oneself and not playing the "control" game with others.
This presents an oxymoron on evangelism, and yet it also tells us to evangelize in a wise way, a subtle way. Not that this would make any headway with the blockheads on this site, but for more intelligent people it would.
No offense.
the same "meter reader"?
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Post by koskiewicz on Jan 28, 2019 16:51:38 GMT
Alfred Bester called this phenomenon "jaunting"
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Post by Catman on Jan 28, 2019 16:57:11 GMT
Alfred Bester called this phenomenon "jaunting"  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 17:56:46 GMT
I don't remember how many years ago it was made public, maybe two, maybe twelve, but there was a scientific experiment in which teleportation of an atom or two was successful. Actually, the atom, or perhaps even a molecule, was somehow annihilated in one spot, and caused to appear far away in another spot. This let to the fact that teleportation was possible in the essence of what was observed from outside the matter, and theoretically, given advanced technology, this cold be done with larger masses, and even living things some day. Actually not. The quantum state of one atom was projected onto another atom in a different location. Nothing physical moved between those points. No atom was annihilated and recreated elsewhere. It was essentially the quantum equivalent of sending a fax of a document. No. Identical twins may be called that, but they are not in fact identical at all. For instance identical twins have different fingerprints. They don't even look identical, just very similar. No, one wouldn't. |
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Post by drystyx on Jan 29, 2019 2:35:02 GMT
I don't remember how many years ago it was made public, maybe two, maybe twelve, but there was a scientific experiment in which teleportation of an atom or two was successful. Actually, the atom, or perhaps even a molecule, was somehow annihilated in one spot, and caused to appear far away in another spot. This let to the fact that teleportation was possible in the essence of what was observed from outside the matter, and theoretically, given advanced technology, this cold be done with larger masses, and even living things some day. Actually not. The quantum state of one atom was projected onto another atom in a different location. Nothing physical moved between those points. No atom was annihilated and recreated elsewhere. It was essentially the quantum equivalent of sending a fax of a document. No. Identical twins may be called that, but they are not in fact identical at all. For instance identical twins have different fingerprints. They don't even look identical, just very similar. No, one wouldn't. Graham was hoping I wouldn't find the original article, and I didn't, because the original one had one of the scientists involved stating that if it ever became possible to teleport humans, he wouldn't volunteer because he would be annihilated. This particular article does state the original atomic particle is destroyed. The "fax" is still the identical information, such as the identical twin. Identical twins do begin from the same embryo, and the differences come after the initial conception. I clearly state that in the original post, that it would be a very coincidental but mathematically minute possibility, thus making it a theoretical model from which information can be mathematically be formulated. But since it hurts your feelings, Graham, I won't dwell on it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 2:57:05 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3811785.stm Graham was hoping I wouldn't find the original article, and I didn't, because the original one had one of the scientists involved stating that if it ever became possible to teleport humans, he wouldn't volunteer because he would be annihilated. Um, are your reading skills so low that you think I argued otherwise? I never once objected to the thought that a teleporter might destroy the original. Let me try and rephrase what I said into simpler language, it may help you. I made three points : 1) You said quantum teleportation destroys an atom. You are right about this. Well done, have a gold star. But then you said it remakes the atom in a different place. You are wrong about this. Take a demerit, too. What really happens is the quantum information of the first atom is put onto a different atom. This makes Atom 2 exactly identical to Atom 1. 2) You then claimed that identical twins are identical. You are wrong about this too. They are not. Another demerit. 3) You then claimed that if a person accepted that Atom 2 was the same as Atom 1, that person would have to accept that identical twins are the same person. This is also wrong. Identical twins have the same DNA (and even that's not truly identical, just very close), but what they absolutely do not have is identical atomic structure throughout their bodies. And even if they did, those atoms would not have the same quantum states. Again - quantum teleportation works a bit like a fax machine. The original piece of paper is atom 1. The quantum states of the atom are the words on the page. The teleporter transmits that information to another document, making it into a copy of the original. Now I hope you will understand that better this time, but if not then see if you can get a nearby adult to go through what I wrote and explain it to you. It's a hard subject, so don't worry if you don't understand it the first time. Now there is actually a conversation to be had about how a teleporter might work and the philosophical implications if it's the kind that scans a person and makes what amounts to a copy in a distant location. But you're doing it really badly, in a way that shows you don't really understand the topic very well. No worries mate, being right doesn't hurt my feelings at all. It's actually something I strive for. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 3:02:08 GMT
Alfred Bester called this phenomenon "jaunting" There's an interesting variation in the show Dark Matter. They have machines that can scan a person and transmit the info to a kind of 3D printer at a remote location, which makes a perfect copy of you. However, the original you remains alive. And the stuff the copy is made from degrades after a while and falls apart. Before that happens the copy can return to the machine and transmit the memories back to you. So from your point of view it seems like you transported there and back, but you didn't. And if the copy gets killed before it can get back to the machine, then you never get the memories back from it and never know what happened at the other end. Kind of a cool idea, I thought. |
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Post by goz on Jan 29, 2019 3:28:45 GMT
Alfred Bester called this phenomenon "jaunting" There's an interesting variation in the show Dark Matter. They have machines that can scan a person and transmit the info to a kind of 3D printer at a remote location, which makes a perfect copy of you. However, the original you remains alive. And the stuff the copy is made from degrades after a while and falls apart. Before that happens the copy can return to the machine and transmit the memories back to you. So from your point of view it seems like you transported there and back, but you didn't. And if the copy gets killed before it can get back to the machine, then you never get the memories back from it and never know what happened at the other end. Kind of a cool idea, I thought. BTW I prefer the term 'gallivanting' to 'jaunting'! |
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Post by drystyx on Jan 29, 2019 3:40:41 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3811785.stm Graham was hoping I wouldn't find the original article, and I didn't, because the original one had one of the scientists involved stating that if it ever became possible to teleport humans, he wouldn't volunteer because he would be annihilated. Um, are your reading skills so low that you think I argued otherwise? I never once objected to the thought that a teleporter might destroy the original. Let me try and rephrase what I said into simpler language, it may help you. I made three points : 1) You said quantum teleportation destroys an atom. You are right about this. Well done, have a gold star. But then you said it remakes the atom in a different place. You are wrong about this. Take a demerit, too. What really happens is the quantum information of the first atom is put onto a different atom. This makes Atom 2 exactly identical to Atom 1. 2) You then claimed that identical twins are identical. You are wrong about this too. They are not. Another demerit. 3) You then claimed that if a person accepted that Atom 2 was the same as Atom 1, that person would have to accept that identical twins are the same person. This is also wrong. Identical twins have the same DNA (and even that's not truly identical, just very close), but what they absolutely do not have is identical atomic structure throughout their bodies. And even if they did, those atoms would not have the same quantum states. Again - quantum teleportation works a bit like a fax machine. The original piece of paper is atom 1. The quantum states of the atom are the words on the page. The teleporter transmits that information to another document, making it into a copy of the original. Now I hope you will understand that better this time, but if not then see if you can get a nearby adult to go through what I wrote and explain it to you. It's a hard subject, so don't worry if you don't understand it the first time. Now there is actually a conversation to be had about how a teleporter might work and the philosophical implications if it's the kind that scans a person and makes what amounts to a copy in a distant location. But you're doing it really badly, in a way that shows you don't really understand the topic very well. No worries mate, being right doesn't hurt my feelings at all. It's actually something I strive for. You addressed absolutely nothing that I posted. Your reading and communication skills are at less than a first grade level, and all you do is embarrass yourself. 1. I clearly stated the particles were identical and then addressed whether or not this made them the same. I never said they were the same. I gave both scenarios. Of course you are either illiterate or a liar, but we all knew that. Now get your lynch mob of fellow ignorant red necks to agree with you, but you still did not address my point. That makes you either a liar or a moron, doesn't it? Glad you agree. 2. The demerit is your demerit. You know nothing about Biology or Science. The beginning division of cells creates two identical cells. And I've pointed out twice now that in order to remain identical they would have to undergo identical environmental changes. Again, you either have no communication skills or you're just lying, which makes you a jealous "hater", but we all knew that, didn't we? Glad you agree. 3. I clearly stated that the teleportation did work that way. I didn't say "fax" machine, but stated that an identical particle would appear far away, and then explained both scenarios of whether it was the same or not, that it still proved my point when applied to the larger object of an organism. Again, you either can't read, or you're lying, and you only humiliate yourself, but since you have the Donald Trump mob supporting you, the way your clone Trump is supported by the clones of those sheep, then you feel safe in your blind hatred and delusion. You can rant and rave all you want, Donald Trump. And get the vote of the sheep on your side, but you have absolutely no grasp with reality. But since your only real objective is to hijack my intelligent and thoughtful thread involving logic in order to babble incoherently, you can be filled with the joy that toothless red necks like yourself always feel when you sabotage constructive ideas. Good job, Donald Trump. |
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Post by goz on Jan 29, 2019 3:50:55 GMT
Um, are your reading skills so low that you think I argued otherwise? I never once objected to the thought that a teleporter might destroy the original. Let me try and rephrase what I said into simpler language, it may help you. I made three points : 1) You said quantum teleportation destroys an atom. You are right about this. Well done, have a gold star. But then you said it remakes the atom in a different place. You are wrong about this. Take a demerit, too. What really happens is the quantum information of the first atom is put onto a different atom. This makes Atom 2 exactly identical to Atom 1. 2) You then claimed that identical twins are identical. You are wrong about this too. They are not. Another demerit. 3) You then claimed that if a person accepted that Atom 2 was the same as Atom 1, that person would have to accept that identical twins are the same person. This is also wrong. Identical twins have the same DNA (and even that's not truly identical, just very close), but what they absolutely do not have is identical atomic structure throughout their bodies. And even if they did, those atoms would not have the same quantum states. Again - quantum teleportation works a bit like a fax machine. The original piece of paper is atom 1. The quantum states of the atom are the words on the page. The teleporter transmits that information to another document, making it into a copy of the original. Now I hope you will understand that better this time, but if not then see if you can get a nearby adult to go through what I wrote and explain it to you. It's a hard subject, so don't worry if you don't understand it the first time. Now there is actually a conversation to be had about how a teleporter might work and the philosophical implications if it's the kind that scans a person and makes what amounts to a copy in a distant location. But you're doing it really badly, in a way that shows you don't really understand the topic very well. No worries mate, being right doesn't hurt my feelings at all. It's actually something I strive for. You addressed absolutely nothing that I posted. Your reading and communication skills are at less than a first grade level, and all you do is embarrass yourself. 1. I clearly stated the particles were identical and then addressed whether or not this made them the same. I never said they were the same. I gave both scenarios. Of course you are either illiterate or a liar, but we all knew that. Now get your lynch mob of fellow ignorant red necks to agree with you, but you still did not address my point. That makes you either a liar or a moron, doesn't it? Glad you agree. 2. The demerit is your demerit. You know nothing about Biology or Science. The beginning division of cells creates two identical cells. And I've pointed out twice now that in order to remain identical they would have to undergo identical environmental changes. Again, you either have no communication skills or you're just lying, which makes you a jealous "hater", but we all knew that, didn't we? Glad you agree. 3. I clearly stated that the teleportation did work that way. I didn't say "fax" machine, but stated that an identical particle would appear far away, and then explained both scenarios of whether it was the same or not, that it still proved my point when applied to the larger object of an organism. Again, you either can't read, or you're lying, and you only humiliate yourself, but since you have the Donald Trump mob supporting you, the way your clone Trump is supported by the clones of those sheep, then you feel safe in your blind hatred and delusion. You can rant and rave all you want, Donald Trump. And get the vote of the sheep on your side, but you have absolutely no grasp with reality. But since your only real objective is to hijack my intelligent and thoughtful thread involving logic in order to babble incoherently, you can be filled with the joy that toothless red necks like yourself always feel when you sabotage constructive ideas. Good job, Donald Trump. ^ ^ ^   |
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 29, 2019 9:34:20 GMT
Actually not. The quantum state of one atom was projected onto another atom in a different location. Nothing physical moved between those points. No atom was annihilated and recreated elsewhere. It was essentially the quantum equivalent of sending a fax of a document. No. Identical twins may be called that, but they are not in fact identical at all. For instance identical twins have different fingerprints. They don't even look identical, just very similar. No, one wouldn't. Graham was hoping I wouldn't find the original article, and I didn't, because the original one had one of the scientists involved stating that if it ever became possible to teleport humans, he wouldn't volunteer because he would be annihilated. This particular article does state the original atomic particle is destroyed. The "fax" is still the identical information, such as the identical twin. Identical twins do begin from the same embryo, and the differences come after the initial conception. I clearly state that in the original post, that it would be a very coincidental but mathematically minute possibility, thus making it a theoretical model from which information can be mathematically be formulated. But since it hurts your feelings, Graham, I won't dwell on it. Every time I click on that BBC link I get teleported to an exact replica of this thread.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 13:15:00 GMT
You addressed absolutely nothing that I posted. Your reading and communication skills are at less than a first grade level, and all you do is embarrass yourself. Okay, you're going to have to go get some nearby adult to explain this all to you. Get back when you've done that. |
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Post by koskiewicz on Jan 29, 2019 16:49:30 GMT
"Gully Foyle is my name,
and Terra is my nation.
Deep space is my dwelling place
and the "stars my destination""
Tyger, tyger burning bright
in the forests of the night,
what immortal hand or eye
dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
-William Blake
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Post by koskiewicz on Jan 29, 2019 16:49:57 GMT
"Gully Foyle is my name,
and Terra is my nation.
Deep space is my dwelling place
and the "stars my destination""
Tyger, tyger burning bright
in the forests of the night,
what immortal hand or eye
dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
-William Blake
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Post by drystyx on Jan 29, 2019 18:18:49 GMT
"Gully Foyle is my name, and Terra is my nation. Deep space is my dwelling place and the "stars my destination"" Tyger, tyger burning bright in the forests of the night, what immortal hand or eye dare frame thy fearful symmetry? -William Blake I don't want to tire my eyes to see if both posts are identical, so please tell me if they are. At any rate, Graham is a liar who just wants to sabotage a thread out of jealousy of a more educated mind. Graham gets all his information on line. I actually went through the college physical therapy assistant program until money problems stopped me from entering the "on hands" part of the program. My post clearly states that the model for the illustration is the highly improbable coincidence of all environmental factors remaining the same for both cells after initial meiosis in order to keep them identical. I highlighted it a second time, and yet Graham either can't read or is lying about it, and he can read. Without everything remaining the same, then an environmental fa |
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Post by goz on Jan 29, 2019 21:00:51 GMT
"Gully Foyle is my name, and Terra is my nation. Deep space is my dwelling place and the "stars my destination"" Tyger, tyger burning bright in the forests of the night, what immortal hand or eye dare frame thy fearful symmetry? -William Blake I don't want to tire my eyes to see if both posts are identical, so please tell me if they are. At any rate, Graham is a liar who just wants to sabotage a thread out of jealousy of a more educated mind. Graham gets all his information on line. I actually went through the college physical therapy assistant program until money problems stopped me from entering the "on hands" part of the program. My post clearly states that the model for the illustration is the highly improbable coincidence of all environmental factors remaining the same for both cells after initial meiosis in order to keep them identical. I highlighted it a second time, and yet Graham either can't read or is lying about it, and he can read. Without everything remaining the same, then an environmental faCongratulations. Some of the best projection in a thread in a while on here ( I think another of your own was the last...I see a pattern here) People like you and the other bozos on here with either none or limited or worse inaccurate scientific and academic knowledge, claiming unprecedented knowledge. There is a term for it and you too, can now vie with Arlon and Heeeeey for the best Dunning Kruger poster on the board. Your failure to complete some part of a college course, notwithstanding. |
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Post by koskiewicz on Jan 29, 2019 22:10:04 GMT
"...please tell me if they are" (identical)
Unless you are seeing double, yes, they are identical. Read some Alfred Bester for enlightenment...!!!
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Post by drystyx on Jan 29, 2019 23:23:31 GMT
"...please tell me if they are" (identical) Unless you are seeing double, yes, they are identical. Read some Alfred Bester for enlightenment...!!! I don't see double and I don't write double. I don't see double and I don't write double. |
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Post by general313 on Jan 30, 2019 0:27:12 GMT
"...please tell me if they are" (identical) Unless you are seeing double, yes, they are identical. Read some Alfred Bester for enlightenment...!!! I don't see double and I don't write double. I don't see double and I don't write double. Bravo! Have some gum!  |
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Post by Catman on Jan 30, 2019 0:38:16 GMT
I don't see double and I don't write double. I don't see double and I don't write double. Bravo! Have some gum!  |
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