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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 4, 2019 18:47:10 GMT
www.grunge.com/131745/false-facts-about-superman-you-always-thought-were-true/sl/the-s-is-a-kryptonian-symbol-that-means-hope
When Superman first came out there was never a question that the symbol/logo on his chest was an S and that it stood for Super, hence the name Superman.
Later other folks started thinking that it might be a bit too on the nose that he call himself Super. "Who does he think he is? He wouldn't call himself Super. He's not arrogant." And then Superman the Movie came out and forever more solidified the idea that the S was really a Kryptonian Symbol.
In the 80's, the comic, Man of Steel, by John Byrne (not to be confused with the 2018 comic Man of Steel by Brian Michael Bendis [Oy!]) tried to return the symbol back to being an S by having Lois Lane call him a Super Man in one of her articles. It didn't stick.
Man of Steel the movie not only returned it to being a Kryptonian symbol but also added the notion that it stands for "hope".
Folks, don't be fooled. The symbol on his chest is an S which stands for Super. The rest is just BS that the creators of these different versions have been wrestling with since forever, for god knows what reason. He's Superman, from which the term Super Hero comes from.
Thoughts? Opinions? I didn’t read the article but did it imply that the ‘Man of Steel’ movie is what added that the symbol means “hope”? Because I learned the symbol meant “hope” from the television show ‘Smallville’. I knew it was supposed to mean “Super” when the character first came out. I just assumed they changed it in the comics at some point to mean “hope” especially after hearing it in both Smallville AND Man of Steel. Smallville, eh? Well then, I stand corrected. Thanks!
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 7, 2019 3:15:26 GMT
This is a narrow minded take on the development of a character. Superman may have just had an S shield in his beginnings, but he also couldn't fly, didn't know that his powers came for the sun, that his weakness was kryptonite, and really didn't know that he came from the planet Kypton either. These are things we all learned while the character was developing and to say that any explanation is BS is just a slap in the face of the original creators, and the folks who helped develop the character over the course of the last 80 years. On the contrary, the later creators are the ones who give a slap in the face to the original creators (Siegel and SHuster) who made it so that the S on his chest is an S on his chest. The creators who came along AFTER them and changed that are the ones who changed things and messed that up, so that now there are folks like yourself who don't realize the origin.
As for adding things like him flying, that's different. Because in that case they weren't changing anything, they were actually enhancing things that were already there. They were making additions that made the character better. Changing the S to a Kryptonian symbol is actually neither here nor there, which is why its gone back and forth between both explanations since the history of the character.
When it began it was an S, and its sheer dumb luck that an alien symbol would look exactly like an English letter that just so happens to stand for the English word for Super, as in Superman, as in Super-hero. I find it much easier to believe that the media dubbed him a super man and that he took that as a symbol to inspire people.
p.s. How do you attribute narrow minded-ness to acknowledging the truth? That's kinda... narrow-minded.
As dnno1 explained, it's character development. If you just go by what was in the 1940s without any of the character development that followed, then: 1. Superman can't fly and can only leap tall buildings, like Hulk. 2. Superman is the sole survivor of Krypton so there's no Supergirl, no Zod, and no bottled city of Kandor. 3. There's no kryptonite. 4. There's no Fortress of Solitude. 5. There's no Jonathon and Martha Kent. In Superman #1 (published in 1939), Superman's adoptive mother was named Mary Kent. In the George Reeves' TV series, Superman's adoptive parents were Eben and Sarah Kent. The names Jonathan and Martha Kent weren't used until the 1950s. Supergirl, Zod, the bottled city of Kandor, kryptoninte, the names of the Kents, and many other changes over the decades are just part of the development of the Superman character and mythology. So is the House of El symbol that Jor-El wore in Superman: The Movie.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 8, 2019 14:51:58 GMT
On the contrary, the later creators are the ones who give a slap in the face to the original creators (Siegel and SHuster) who made it so that the S on his chest is an S on his chest. The creators who came along AFTER them and changed that are the ones who changed things and messed that up, so that now there are folks like yourself who don't realize the origin.
As for adding things like him flying, that's different. Because in that case they weren't changing anything, they were actually enhancing things that were already there. They were making additions that made the character better. Changing the S to a Kryptonian symbol is actually neither here nor there, which is why its gone back and forth between both explanations since the history of the character.
When it began it was an S, and its sheer dumb luck that an alien symbol would look exactly like an English letter that just so happens to stand for the English word for Super, as in Superman, as in Super-hero. I find it much easier to believe that the media dubbed him a super man and that he took that as a symbol to inspire people.
p.s. How do you attribute narrow minded-ness to acknowledging the truth? That's kinda... narrow-minded.
As dnno1 explained, it's character development. If you just go by what was in the 1940s without any of the character development that followed, then: 1. Superman can't fly and can only leap tall buildings, like Hulk. 2. Superman is the sole survivor of Krypton so there's no Supergirl, no Zod, and no bottled city of Kandor. 3. There's no kryptonite. 4. There's no Fortress of Solitude. 5. There's no Jonathon and Martha Kent. In Superman #1 (published in 1939), Superman's adoptive mother was named Mary Kent. In the George Reeves' TV series, Superman's adoptive parents were Eben and Sarah Kent. The names Jonathan and Martha Kent weren't used until the 1950s. Supergirl, Zod, the bottled city of Kandor, kryptoninte, the names of the Kents, and many other changes over the decades are just part of the development of the Superman character and mythology. So is the House of El symbol that Jor-El wore in Superman: The Movie. Oh I'm not arguing the notion of "development". I totally get that. Characters change over time; and often to match the social moirés of the time. At some point someone must have questioned why Superman would be arrogant enough to call himself "super". Nobody had questioned that before. So they proposed the answer that the S was actually a Kryptonian symbol instead of an S, and that seemed to solve the problem for a while.
I'm OK with that. That particular issue has gone back and forth ever since. In the 1980's mini-series creator John Byrne proposed that Lois Lane saw a young man fly into the sky and save the space shuttle. In her article she called him a Super Man because she had no name for him. I think it goes "Who is this super man?". The Kents, took their cue from that article and deciding to call him Superman made a costume with the S symbol on it. This I thought was an elegant way of solving the problem. But like I said before it didn't stick.
You're right that the character has "developed" over the years. I'm just saying that ret-con or not, "development" or not, that symbol is an S that stands for Super. You can change it all you want, but we know the truth.
That S stands for Super. That S stands for Superman, the greatest comic book character of all time. That S stands for Super Hero, the greatest term in American comics. That S is the most important letter in the medium. From that S is derived the genre that we all love so much; and all super heroes, Marvel's included, owe that S a certain amount of respect.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 8, 2019 14:59:58 GMT
As dnno1 explained, it's character development. If you just go by what was in the 1940s without any of the character development that followed, then: 1. Superman can't fly and can only leap tall buildings, like Hulk. 2. Superman is the sole survivor of Krypton so there's no Supergirl, no Zod, and no bottled city of Kandor. 3. There's no kryptonite. 4. There's no Fortress of Solitude. 5. There's no Jonathon and Martha Kent. In Superman #1 (published in 1939), Superman's adoptive mother was named Mary Kent. In the George Reeves' TV series, Superman's adoptive parents were Eben and Sarah Kent. The names Jonathan and Martha Kent weren't used until the 1950s. Supergirl, Zod, the bottled city of Kandor, kryptoninte, the names of the Kents, and many other changes over the decades are just part of the development of the Superman character and mythology. So is the House of El symbol that Jor-El wore in Superman: The Movie. all super heroes, Marvel's included, owe that S a certain amount of respect.
There are MCU fans on here who still refuse to admit that without Superman there would be no comic book superheroes and without Superman: The Movie there would be no big-budget superhero movies and no MCU.
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Post by James on Feb 9, 2019 0:47:50 GMT
all super heroes, Marvel's included, owe that S a certain amount of respect.
There are MCU fans on here who still refuse to admit that without Superman there would be no comic book superheroes and without Superman: The Movie there would be no big-budget superhero movies and no MCU. That’s what he’s doing you hypocrite.
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Post by damngumby on Feb 9, 2019 17:33:56 GMT
That S is the most important letter in the medium. From that S is derived the genre that we all love so much; and all super heroes, Marvel's included, owe that S a certain amount of respect. These days, the S tends to be the subject of mockery, much like Superman himself. Everything about Superman is outdated. The god mode invincibility (except when the plot requires otherwise), boy scout demeanor, secret identity, unitard costume, cape, underwear on the outside, and a giant letter on the chest. Every aspect of the charactor has been ridiculed in pop culture. The cartoonish Superman charactor is the reason so many people will not take superhero movies seriously. I think it's safe to say that all the recent progress and acceptance of the superhero genre has been due to a concerted (and successful) effort to shed that Superman stigma. Superman should have stayed dead.
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gromel
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Post by gromel on Feb 10, 2019 2:56:12 GMT
Originally it was just a regular Earth S for Superman. The first Reeve movie made it a family crest that just looked like an S. I don't know if DC adopted it afterward but they rebooted less than a decade later and it was back to S for Superman in the Man of Steel comic. Much later, the comic Superman: Birthright made it into the Kryptonian symbol for hope. The Man of Steel movie made it both hope and a family crest.
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gromel
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Post by gromel on Feb 10, 2019 3:03:06 GMT
That S is the most important letter in the medium. From that S is derived the genre that we all love so much; and all super heroes, Marvel's included, owe that S a certain amount of respect. These days, the S tends to be the subject of mockery, much like Superman himself. Everything about Superman is outdated. The god mode invincibility (except when the plot requires otherwise), boy scout demeanor, secret identity, unitard costume, cape, underwear on the outside, and a giant letter on the chest. Every aspect of the charactor has been ridiculed in pop culture. The cartoonish Superman charactor is the reason so many people will not take superhero movies seriously. I think it's safe to say that all the recent progress and acceptance of the superhero genre has been due to a concerted (and successful) effort to shed that Superman stigma. Superman should have stayed dead. Much the same applies to Captain America. The MCU just ditched his secret identity, revamped his costume, and aged up his kid sidekick. Come to think of it, much of that applies to DCEU Superman too, but the MCU kept Captain America's boy scout demeanor and made people love him.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 10, 2019 3:15:46 GMT
These days, the S tends to be the subject of mockery, much like Superman himself. Everything about Superman is outdated. The god mode invincibility (except when the plot requires otherwise), boy scout demeanor, secret identity, unitard costume, cape, underwear on the outside, and a giant letter on the chest. Every aspect of the charactor has been ridiculed in pop culture. The cartoonish Superman charactor is the reason so many people will not take superhero movies seriously. I think it's safe to say that all the recent progress and acceptance of the superhero genre has been due to a concerted (and successful) effort to shed that Superman stigma. Superman should have stayed dead. Much the same applies to Captain America. The MCU just ditched his secret identity, revamped his costume, and aged up his kid sidekick. Come to think of it, much of that applies to DCEU Superman too, but the MCU kept Captain America's boy scout demeanor and made people love him. Except MCU turned Captain America into a thief, a murderer, and a traitor.
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gromel
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Post by gromel on Feb 10, 2019 6:34:44 GMT
With gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.
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Post by damngumby on Feb 10, 2019 14:31:39 GMT
These days, the S tends to be the subject of mockery, much like Superman himself. Everything about Superman is outdated. The god mode invincibility (except when the plot requires otherwise), boy scout demeanor, secret identity, unitard costume, cape, underwear on the outside, and a giant letter on the chest. Every aspect of the charactor has been ridiculed in pop culture. The cartoonish Superman charactor is the reason so many people will not take superhero movies seriously. I think it's safe to say that all the recent progress and acceptance of the superhero genre has been due to a concerted (and successful) effort to shed that Superman stigma. Superman should have stayed dead. Much the same applies to Captain America. I think Captain America is an excellent example of how an outdated superhero charactor can be successfully reimagined for the more sophisticated audiences of today. One of the things I really liked about the first CA movie was how they didn't shy away from the goofy war propaganda origins. They acknowledged it, had some fun with it, and then showed the evolution of the charactor into a more credible superhero that people today can relate to. The problem with Superman is that so much of his persona revolves around the goofy elements I mentioned previously. A sufficiently reimagined Superman would have to be almost a new charactor. ... and its doubtful that DC would have the sack to do what needs to be done. Too many old timers would howl with rage.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Feb 10, 2019 14:45:05 GMT
Much the same applies to Captain America. The MCU just ditched his secret identity, revamped his costume, and aged up his kid sidekick. Come to think of it, much of that applies to DCEU Superman too, but the MCU kept Captain America's boy scout demeanor and made people love him. Except MCU turned Captain America into a thief, a murderer, and a traitor. How exactly is he any of those things?
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 10, 2019 17:31:49 GMT
Except MCU turned Captain America into a thief, a murderer, and a traitor. How exactly is he any of those things? 1. Thief Steve Rogers couldn't pass the physical to get into the Army because he was too lazy to exercise and train like the rest of the soldiers so he got into the Army by taking a super-PED (similar to how Julian PEDelman became Super Bowl MVP by taking a bunch of PEDs). Then after being let into the Army, he did nothing to earn the promotion to Captain, yet he still accepted the promotion and thus basically stole the promotion from other more experienced and more qualified officers who had worked their butts off for many years to put themselves next in line for a promotion to Captain but get bypassed by a guy who got into the Army by taking a super-PED and doing nothing to earn the promotion to Captain. 2. Murderer Steve Rogers knowingly aided and abetted a double-murderer to escape from the law. That makes Steve Rogers an accessory to murder after the fact. 3. Traitor The Army spent millions of dollars on research and development to develop the super-PED that gave Steve Rogers his superpowers. By taking the super-PED, Steve Rogers owes his superpowers to the US government and thus should serve the US government and be loyal to the US government. So when the US Secretary of Defense Thaddeus Ross requests that Steve Rogers sign the Accords, Rogers has a responsibility and obligation to follow the orders of the US government and sign the Accords since it was the US government that gave Rogers his superpowers. It's similar to Steve Austin and Jaime Sommers. Steve Austin was an astronaut and was severely injured in a crash. The US government spent 6 million dollars to not only save his life but give him special abilities. Austin repaid the US government by working as an agent for the US government and using his special abilities, given to him by the US government, to help the US government. Jaime Sommers was severely injured in a parachuting accident and the US government also saved her life and gave her special abilities. Even though she was just a pro tennis player and later a school teacher and wasn't an astronaut or an employee of the US government, she still was willing to repay the US government by going on missions for the US government and using her special abilities, given to her by the US government, to help the US government. But Steve Rogers, after being given superpowers by the US government, refuses to remain loyal to the US government and instead turns traitor.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 11, 2019 17:02:21 GMT
That S is the most important letter in the medium. From that S is derived the genre that we all love so much; and all super heroes, Marvel's included, owe that S a certain amount of respect. These days, the S tends to be the subject of mockery, much like Superman himself. Everything about Superman is outdated. The god mode invincibility (except when the plot requires otherwise), boy scout demeanor, secret identity, unitard costume, cape, underwear on the outside, and a giant letter on the chest. Every aspect of the charactor has been ridiculed in pop culture. The cartoonish Superman charactor is the reason so many people will not take superhero movies seriously. I think it's safe to say that all the recent progress and acceptance of the superhero genre has been due to a concerted (and successful) effort to shed that Superman stigma. Superman should have stayed dead. I Hate, HAAAAATE, to agree with King Kong Brady, but yes Superman is outdated. Where I disagree with him is that Superman should stay dead. He's too important to the history of comic books and superheroes to be left forgotten. Instead he should revamped in such a way that makes him relevant to modern audiences. A few attempts have been made, but every time he has been brought back to being the corny character we all remember.
Personally I love the character as he is, but I can see the need to update him. The trick is HOW to update him so it works and sticks...
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Feb 11, 2019 21:27:29 GMT
He's not outdated. He was created for kids so just let him be for kids.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Feb 13, 2019 21:15:49 GMT
How exactly is he any of those things? 1. Thief Steve Rogers couldn't pass the physical to get into the Army because he was too lazy to exercise and train like the rest of the soldiers so he got into the Army by taking a super-PED (similar to how Julian PEDelman became Super Bowl MVP by taking a bunch of PEDs). Then after being let into the Army, he did nothing to earn the promotion to Captain, yet he still accepted the promotion and thus basically stole the promotion from other more experienced and more qualified officers who had worked their butts off for many years to put themselves next in line for a promotion to Captain but get bypassed by a guy who got into the Army by taking a super-PED and doing nothing to earn the promotion to Captain. 2. Murderer Steve Rogers knowingly aided and abetted a double-murderer to escape from the law. That makes Steve Rogers an accessory to murder after the fact. 3. Traitor The Army spent millions of dollars on research and development to develop the super-PED that gave Steve Rogers his superpowers. By taking the super-PED, Steve Rogers owes his superpowers to the US government and thus should serve the US government and be loyal to the US government. So when the US Secretary of Defense Thaddeus Ross requests that Steve Rogers sign the Accords, Rogers has a responsibility and obligation to follow the orders of the US government and sign the Accords since it was the US government that gave Rogers his superpowers. It's similar to Steve Austin and Jaime Sommers. Steve Austin was an astronaut and was severely injured in a crash. The US government spent 6 million dollars to not only save his life but give him special abilities. Austin repaid the US government by working as an agent for the US government and using his special abilities, given to him by the US government, to help the US government. Jaime Sommers was severely injured in a parachuting accident and the US government also saved her life and gave her special abilities. Even though she was just a pro tennis player and later a school teacher and wasn't an astronaut or an employee of the US government, she still was willing to repay the US government by going on missions for the US government and using her special abilities, given to her by the US government, to help the US government. But Steve Rogers, after being given superpowers by the US government, refuses to remain loyal to the US government and instead turns traitor. That's not what any of those words mean.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 13, 2019 21:42:10 GMT
1. Thief Steve Rogers couldn't pass the physical to get into the Army because he was too lazy to exercise and train like the rest of the soldiers so he got into the Army by taking a super-PED (similar to how Julian PEDelman became Super Bowl MVP by taking a bunch of PEDs). Then after being let into the Army, he did nothing to earn the promotion to Captain, yet he still accepted the promotion and thus basically stole the promotion from other more experienced and more qualified officers who had worked their butts off for many years to put themselves next in line for a promotion to Captain but get bypassed by a guy who got into the Army by taking a super-PED and doing nothing to earn the promotion to Captain. 2. Murderer Steve Rogers knowingly aided and abetted a double-murderer to escape from the law. That makes Steve Rogers an accessory to murder after the fact. 3. Traitor The Army spent millions of dollars on research and development to develop the super-PED that gave Steve Rogers his superpowers. By taking the super-PED, Steve Rogers owes his superpowers to the US government and thus should serve the US government and be loyal to the US government. So when the US Secretary of Defense Thaddeus Ross requests that Steve Rogers sign the Accords, Rogers has a responsibility and obligation to follow the orders of the US government and sign the Accords since it was the US government that gave Rogers his superpowers. It's similar to Steve Austin and Jaime Sommers. Steve Austin was an astronaut and was severely injured in a crash. The US government spent 6 million dollars to not only save his life but give him special abilities. Austin repaid the US government by working as an agent for the US government and using his special abilities, given to him by the US government, to help the US government. Jaime Sommers was severely injured in a parachuting accident and the US government also saved her life and gave her special abilities. Even though she was just a pro tennis player and later a school teacher and wasn't an astronaut or an employee of the US government, she still was willing to repay the US government by going on missions for the US government and using her special abilities, given to her by the US government, to help the US government. But Steve Rogers, after being given superpowers by the US government, refuses to remain loyal to the US government and instead turns traitor. That's not what any of those words mean. Nah, that's what they all mean.
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