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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 2, 2019 6:24:31 GMT
Enjoy.  Does anyone think this bullshit really happened? Does anyone think the Knights Templar would bother to enter battle to save the Jews? Were the Jews even in Europe at that time? Or is it all just a bunch of made-up bullshit? Those poor kicked-around abused Jews. Boo hoo. And they're not even being kicked around by those evil Muslims this time. They're being kicked around by Christians, Oh, the horror. |
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 2, 2019 7:28:56 GMT
Both Christians and Muslims indulged in horrible atrocities on Jews though Christian atrocity was far more severe. Certain times Jews had to make pacts with Muslims to avoid Christian atrocity. Only a person who is extremely uneducated would say there were no Jews in Europe during the times of Templars. Even the Christian literature apart from historians, novelists and official documents of various nations/kingdoms would attest to the fact that Jews were in Europe since the very early times.
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Post by progressiveelement on Feb 2, 2019 13:56:46 GMT
Well, gotta protect assets. 😇
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Post by Zos on Feb 3, 2019 14:50:05 GMT
No, but they would team up with others if it served joint interests. One of the best books I read last year was "Dan Jones' "The Templars", perhaps the best history on them ever written.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 3, 2019 16:25:20 GMT
No, but they would team up with others if it served joint interests. One of the best books I read last year was "Dan Jones' "The Templars", perhaps the best history on them ever written. Thanks very much. That one's going on my to-read list. |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 3, 2019 16:56:08 GMT
Does anyone think this bullshit really happened? This particular episode? No. But if you are referring to the attempt to murder the Jews for their wealth, then we know this happened throughout history. What the French attempt here is pretty much what Richard I did to the Jews of London. I don't see why not. The Templars seem to have offered them protection in Portugal, at least. Why wouldn't there have been Jews in Europe at that time?  That series you linked to is mostly made-up bullshit, but thanks for reminding me of its existence. I watched the first episode on Netflix, and it looked both promising and not promising. It plays fast and loose with history, but at least its a series where Templars are not demonised. And that's a welcome change. What's really stupid in that battle scene, though, is the fact that none of the Templars is wearing a helmet. Well, they were kicked around by Christians. As well as Muslims, yes, but in Christian lands it was naturally the Christians who did the kicking. Stands to reason, no? |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 3, 2019 19:09:10 GMT
"Were the Jews even in Europe at that time?"
I don't see why their wouldn't be, usury laws from the Catholic church made it pretty much impossible to get a business loan except through jews.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 3, 2019 23:01:42 GMT
"Were the Jews even in Europe at that time?" I don't see why their wouldn't be, usury laws from the Catholic church made it pretty much impossible to get a business loan except through jews. Entirely my fault for not being more specific. I meant to say Western Europe, as opposed to the Khazar part of Europe. |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 4, 2019 13:00:49 GMT
"Were the Jews even in Europe at that time?" I don't see why their wouldn't be, usury laws from the Catholic church made it pretty much impossible to get a business loan except through jews. Entirely my fault for not being more specific. I meant to say Western Europe, as opposed to the Khazar part of Europe. Well, of course there were. Have been since Roman times. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 4, 2019 18:02:48 GMT
Entirely my fault for not being more specific. I meant to say Western Europe, as opposed to the Khazar part of Europe. Well, of course there were. Have been since Roman times. I knew they were in Spain by the 1400's, and that they were made to leave along with the Muslims. IIRC there were Jewish characters in Sir Walter Scott's "Ivanhoe," but not many of them. As to the Templar's V-formation charge without wearing their helmets, I've seen that kind of stuff many times in films and television episodes. What looks dramatic from the POV of the audience takes precedence over historical accuracy. The technical advisor on "Das Boot" begged the director to not have the Captain pull a pistol on Johann, on the grounds that no German sub commander would ever pull a gun on one of his own men, but the director wanted it in the movie. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2019 20:46:47 GMT
What's really stupid in that battle scene, though, is the fact that none of the Templars is wearing a helmet. Movie 'lets see the actors faces aside' some of them have their coifs up, and I have only ever seen a handfull wearing helmets other than great helms. Historically speaking they were likely to have to casques, but very few of them do in the show, and I would be more pissed off if they wore their great helms on foot. |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 4, 2019 22:35:13 GMT
What's really stupid in that battle scene, though, is the fact that none of the Templars is wearing a helmet. Movie 'lets see the actors faces aside' some of them have their coifs up, and I have only ever seen a handfull wearing helmets other than great helms. Historically speaking they were likely to have to casques, but very few of them do in the show, and I would be more pissed off if they wore their great helms on foot. They did arrive on horseback, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to have their great helms with them. But the casque was worn underneath the great helm anyway so there'd be no reason not to wear those. Except if the director thought it'd make them look silly. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 5, 2019 0:34:22 GMT
Movie 'lets see the actors faces aside' some of them have their coifs up, and I have only ever seen a handfull wearing helmets other than great helms. Historically speaking they were likely to have to casques, but very few of them do in the show, and I would be more pissed off if they wore their great helms on foot. They did arrive on horseback, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to have their great helms with them. But the casque was worn underneath the great helm anyway so there'd be no reason not to wear those. Except if the director thought it'd make them look silly. That is what I mean though there are very few of them ever shown with anything other than a great helm, if they suddenly all had casques I would be upset. What I mean about the great helm though is not that they would not have them, but how dangerous it would be to fight on foot in them. |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 5, 2019 5:32:38 GMT
They did arrive on horseback, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to have their great helms with them. But the casque was worn underneath the great helm anyway so there'd be no reason not to wear those. Except if the director thought it'd make them look silly. That is what I mean though there are very few of them ever shown with anything other than a great helm, if they suddenly all had casques I would be upset. What I mean about the great helm though is not that they would not have them, but how dangerous it would be to fight on foot in them. Why would you be upset if suddenly they all had casques? Is it better that they at best pull their coif over their heads? (Unless they're main characters - in which case they display their hair as much as possible.) |
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 5, 2019 5:48:12 GMT
Well, of course there were. Have been since Roman times. I knew they were in Spain by the 1400's, and that they were made to leave along with the Muslims. IIRC there were Jewish characters in Sir Walter Scott's "Ivanhoe," but not many of them. As to the Templar's V-formation charge without wearing their helmets, I've seen that kind of stuff many times in films and television episodes. What looks dramatic from the POV of the audience takes precedence over historical accuracy. The technical advisor on "Das Boot" begged the director to not have the Captain pull a pistol on Johann, on the grounds that no German sub commander would ever pull a gun on one of his own men, but the director wanted it in the movie. The Jewish characters in Ivanhoe were pretty central, though. That said, Ivanhoe isn't exactly a history book, either.
And yes, the movie industry is very fond of V-formation helmet-less charges, no matter what the occasion. The Rohirrim charge against the Mumakil in Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy, for example - which specifically did not happen in the book, because the prospects of success would have been non-existent. I remember staring in disbelief in the movie theatre as Theoden ordered his mean to charge the oliphants head-on.
But you can win battles armed only with rubber bands if that's what the script says.
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Post by maya55555 on Feb 5, 2019 22:36:36 GMT
gadreel
What do you think of that new TV series, "KNIGHT FIGHT"?
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Post by gadreel on Feb 6, 2019 2:05:16 GMT
That is what I mean though there are very few of them ever shown with anything other than a great helm, if they suddenly all had casques I would be upset. What I mean about the great helm though is not that they would not have them, but how dangerous it would be to fight on foot in them. Why would you be upset if suddenly they all had casques? Is it better that they at best pull their coif over their heads? (Unless they're main characters - in which case they display their hair as much as possible.) Cos they never had them before, like I think we have seen one wearing one the whole show, suddenly they all have them? But yeah they could all at least have pulled coifs on.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 9, 2019 14:36:06 GMT
Why would you be upset if suddenly they all had casques? Is it better that they at best pull their coif over their heads? (Unless they're main characters - in which case they display their hair as much as possible.) Cos they never had them before, like I think we have seen one wearing one the whole show, suddenly they all have them? But yeah they could all at least have pulled coifs on.
Never had them before? It was the very first episode. I haven't actually watched any further than the first episode, but I'm sure there are things in the second episode which we had never seen before, either. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 10, 2019 18:09:58 GMT
Cos they never had them before, like I think we have seen one wearing one the whole show, suddenly they all have them? But yeah they could all at least have pulled coifs on.
Never had them before? It was the very first episode. I haven't actually watched any further than the first episode, but I'm sure there are things in the second episode which we had never seen before, either. Ahh, it has been ages since I watched it, I had it in my head it was later, fair point then. Throughout the series I see very little head cover. |
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