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Post by Aj_June on Feb 13, 2019 17:39:16 GMT
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 13, 2019 17:44:45 GMT
It'd be even more impressive if teams were allowed to play defense anymore.
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 13, 2019 17:53:19 GMT
It'd be even more impressive if teams were allowed to play defense anymore. It sure is great to dream of past with nostalgia. It's also awesome to look into what is not present for minimising someone's greatness than appreciate someone by looking into what is present. I guess playing all the season in a team marred with injuries and with 10 day contract players is not so special. Gotta....must be the guy taking lots of shots! I guess it still is the most efficient among the high scoring seasons which includes legends like Jordan, Baylor and the great Wilt. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 13, 2019 18:02:38 GMT
It'd be even more impressive if teams were allowed to play defense anymore. It sure is great to dream of past with nostalgia. It's also awesome to look into what is not present for minimising someone's greatness than appreciate someone by looking into what is present. I guess playing all the season in a team marred with injuries and with 10 day contract players is not so special. Gotta....must be the guy taking lots of shots! I guess it still is the most efficient among the high scoring seasons which includes legends like Jordan, Baylor and the great Wilt. It's still a hell of a feat, it's not like the guy's playing in an empty gym. But pointing out the team isn't great doesn't prove anything. He's getting all the shots, so yeah he's scoring. And he's taking threes in the final minute with his team up 8 points to keep the streak going. He isn't the first to do stuff like that, I'm just pointing it out. I just don't think you can compare scoring in today's NBA to what you had in the decades before now. It's all threes and no defense these days, so it's easier to score. Regardless, the efficiency is impressive in any era. Anyway I don't mean to be 'that guy' in the thread. Good for Harden, hope he has something left come playoff time. |
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 13, 2019 18:10:27 GMT
It sure is great to dream of past with nostalgia. It's also awesome to look into what is not present for minimising someone's greatness than appreciate someone by looking into what is present. I guess playing all the season in a team marred with injuries and with 10 day contract players is not so special. Gotta....must be the guy taking lots of shots! I guess it still is the most efficient among the high scoring seasons which includes legends like Jordan, Baylor and the great Wilt. It's still a hell of a feat, it's not like the guy's playing in an empty gym. But pointing out the team isn't great doesn't prove anything. He's getting all the shots, so yeah he's scoring. And he's taking threes in the final minute with his team up 8 points to keep the streak going. He isn't the first to do stuff like that, I'm just pointing it out. I just don't think you can compare scoring in today's NBA to what you had in the decades before now. It's all threes and no defense these days, so it's easier to score. Regardless, the efficiency is impressive in any era. Anyway I don't mean to be 'that guy' in the thread. Good for Harden, hope he has something left come playoff time. Do you literally buy any media narrative? Houston lost against Net beings more than 7 points up with less than 70 seconds and had other games where they have lost out of nowhere in last 2 minutes. Harden was rightfully present in the last game with 3 minutes to go. No lead is guaranteed in today's basketball. As a matter of fact had you actually watched the game you wouldn't have wrote the post you did. Because even the commentators (not Houston commentators BTW) said it was Harden's quick 10 points in about 60 seconds that saw them out of any danger. Being from Boston you should have seen two recent games of your side where you blew up 20+ leads. Houston has also and unfortunately in last few minutes at times. And in the same game Harden was praised for letting faried score points that Harden could have easily scored. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 13, 2019 18:34:25 GMT
It's still a hell of a feat, it's not like the guy's playing in an empty gym. But pointing out the team isn't great doesn't prove anything. He's getting all the shots, so yeah he's scoring. And he's taking threes in the final minute with his team up 8 points to keep the streak going. He isn't the first to do stuff like that, I'm just pointing it out. I just don't think you can compare scoring in today's NBA to what you had in the decades before now. It's all threes and no defense these days, so it's easier to score. Regardless, the efficiency is impressive in any era. Anyway I don't mean to be 'that guy' in the thread. Good for Harden, hope he has something left come playoff time. Do you literally buy any media narrative? Houston lost against Net beings more than 7 points up with less than 70 seconds and had other games where they have lost out of nowhere in last 2 minutes. Harden was rightfully present in the last game with 3 minutes to go. No lead is guaranteed in today's basketball. As a matter of fact had you actually watched the game you wouldn't have wrote the post you did. Because even the commentators (not Houston commentators BTW) said it was Harden's quick 10 points in about 60 seconds that saw them out of any danger. Being from Boston you should have seen two recent games of your side where you blew up 20+ leads. Houston has also and unfortunately in last few minutes at times. And in the same game Harden was praised for letting faried score points that Harden could have easily scored. I wasn't talking about any particular game. He's taken unnecessary shots late in multiple games to keep the streak going. Iverson did the same thing his rookie year, it's not a big deal. If you have a chance to do something historic, do it. He's on a hell of a run. I still don't think there's a comparison to be made between him and Jordan, that's all. |
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 13, 2019 18:38:22 GMT
Do you literally buy any media narrative? Houston lost against Net beings more than 7 points up with less than 70 seconds and had other games where they have lost out of nowhere in last 2 minutes. Harden was rightfully present in the last game with 3 minutes to go. No lead is guaranteed in today's basketball. As a matter of fact had you actually watched the game you wouldn't have wrote the post you did. Because even the commentators (not Houston commentators BTW) said it was Harden's quick 10 points in about 60 seconds that saw them out of any danger. Being from Boston you should have seen two recent games of your side where you blew up 20+ leads. Houston has also and unfortunately in last few minutes at times. And in the same game Harden was praised for letting faried score points that Harden could have easily scored. I wasn't talking about any particular game. He's taken unnecessary shots late in multiple games to keep the streak going. Iverson did the same thing his rookie year, it's not a big deal. If you have a chance to do something historic, do it. He's on a hell of a run. I still don't think there's a comparison to be made between him and Jordan, that's all. Right. I am watching every game of Harden and seeing how is barely able to keep a team marred with injuries in hunt for playoffs and you believe he is taking "unnecessary" shots. That's so awesome. And as for not comparing him with Jordan. You can have any opinion on Jordan. Sure he was considerably better player than Harden is at the present. But it's a fact that Harden has better 2 point% and better 3 point % in this season than Jordan had in his when he scored the most points. Also, Harden has attempted fewer FTs and fewer FGs. A fact. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 13, 2019 19:32:05 GMT
I wasn't talking about any particular game. He's taken unnecessary shots late in multiple games to keep the streak going. Iverson did the same thing his rookie year, it's not a big deal. If you have a chance to do something historic, do it. He's on a hell of a run. I still don't think there's a comparison to be made between him and Jordan, that's all. Right. I am watching every game of Harden and seeing how is barely able to keep a team marred with injuries in hunt for playoffs and you believe he is taking "unnecessary" shots. That's so awesome. And as for not comparing him with Jordan. You can have any opinion on Jordan. Sure he was considerably better player than Harden is at the present. But it's a fact that Harden has better 2 point% and better 3 point % in this season than Jordan had in his when he scored the most points. Also, Harden has attempted fewer FTs and fewer FGs. A fact. Jordan was also all-defense 9 times. Get back to me when Harden starts playing defense and wins six titles. Prime Jordan would absolutely demolish Harden. Fact. Hell, Marcus Smart caused Harden to lose his mind and throw a game away to the Celtics last year, imagine what Jordan would do. I wonder how many points Jordan would average in today's NBA? I'm guessing at least 40, and he'd play defense while doing it. Stop pretending the one dimensional flavor of the month can be compared to the greatest player of all time. |
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 13, 2019 19:52:33 GMT
Right. I am watching every game of Harden and seeing how is barely able to keep a team marred with injuries in hunt for playoffs and you believe he is taking "unnecessary" shots. That's so awesome. And as for not comparing him with Jordan. You can have any opinion on Jordan. Sure he was considerably better player than Harden is at the present. But it's a fact that Harden has better 2 point% and better 3 point % in this season than Jordan had in his when he scored the most points. Also, Harden has attempted fewer FTs and fewer FGs. A fact. Jordan was also all-defense 9 times. Get back to me when Harden starts playing defense and wins six titles. Prime Jordan would absolutely demolish Harden. Fact. Hell, Marcus Smart caused Harden to lose his mind and throw a game away to the Celtics last year, imagine what Jordan would do. I wonder how many points Jordan would average in today's NBA? I'm guessing at least 40, and he'd play defense while doing it. Stop pretending the one dimensional flavor of the month can be compared to the greatest player of all time. From scoring to defense. Talk about non-sequitur.  |
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Post by fjenkins on Feb 13, 2019 19:54:17 GMT
Right. I am watching every game of Harden and seeing how is barely able to keep a team marred with injuries in hunt for playoffs and you believe he is taking "unnecessary" shots. That's so awesome. And as for not comparing him with Jordan. You can have any opinion on Jordan. Sure he was considerably better player than Harden is at the present. But it's a fact that Harden has better 2 point% and better 3 point % in this season than Jordan had in his when he scored the most points. Also, Harden has attempted fewer FTs and fewer FGs. A fact. Jordan was also all-defense 9 times. Get back to me when Harden starts playing defense and wins six titles. Prime Jordan would absolutely demolish Harden. Fact. Hell, Marcus Smart caused Harden to lose his mind and throw a game away to the Celtics last year, imagine what Jordan would do. I wonder how many points Jordan would average in today's NBA? I'm guessing at least 40, and he'd play defense while doing it. Stop pretending the one dimensional flavor of the month can be compared to the greatest player of all time. haha, I was going to point out the same thing. Harden, fine offensive player. NO DEFENSE. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 13, 2019 20:07:19 GMT
Jordan was also all-defense 9 times. Get back to me when Harden starts playing defense and wins six titles. Prime Jordan would absolutely demolish Harden. Fact. Hell, Marcus Smart caused Harden to lose his mind and throw a game away to the Celtics last year, imagine what Jordan would do. I wonder how many points Jordan would average in today's NBA? I'm guessing at least 40, and he'd play defense while doing it. Stop pretending the one dimensional flavor of the month can be compared to the greatest player of all time. From scoring to defense. Talk about non-sequitur. Defense is a part of the game (or at least it should be). So yeah, pointing out that he expends energy on the defensive end is much more relevant than pointing out he's playing with guys on 10 day contracts. If you played basketball or were a fan for more than 3 years maybe you'd understand that. Indeed, defense is completely foreign concept to Harden and his fans. |
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 13, 2019 20:08:55 GMT
From scoring to defense. Talk about non-sequitur. Defense is a part of the game (or at least it should be). So yeah, pointing out that he expends energy on the defensive end is much more relevant than pointing out he's playing with guys on 10 day contracts. If you played basketball or were a fan for more than 3 years maybe you'd understand that. Indeed, defense is completely foreign concept to Harden and his fans. Nobody Nobody is denying defense is part of the game. The topic thread is about scoring season. But I have had enough now. You can go on have your last post and continue non-intended conversation. |
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Post by DSDSquared on Feb 14, 2019 13:23:46 GMT
What Harden is doing is great. Keep in mind that they are 22 and 10 over their past 32 games, so it is not like he is doing this and they are losing. These games are helping them win and they would not be winning without him. I have seen him force the 30 in a FEW games, but for the most part it has come naturally in the system the Rockets run, which is a lot of ISO ball.
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Post by OrsonSwelles on Feb 14, 2019 14:34:01 GMT
What's the average score in games this season compared to the seasons in the OP?
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 14, 2019 15:06:26 GMT
What's the average score in games this season compared to the seasons in the OP? The average points per team in the season when Wilt Chamberlain scored 50.4 ppg was 118.4 ppg by each team (1961-62) The average points per team in the season when Wilt Chamberlain scored 44.8 ppg was 11534 ppg by each team (1962-62) The average points per team in the season when Wilt Chamberlain scored 38.4 ppg was 118.1 ppg by each team (1960-61) The average points per team in the season when Elgin Baylor scored 38.3 ppg was 118.4 ppg by each team ((1961-62) The average points per team in the season when Michael Jordan scored 37.1 ppg was 109.9 ppg by each team (1986-87) The average points per game this season when James Harden is scoring 36.6 ppg is 110.7 (2018-19) Obviously this Rockets are not going to win by this style of basketball. But Harden's scoring is ensuring that Houston at least gets into playoffs. And it's not as if he is taking shots to the determent of the team. As a matter of fact the so called most special 3 point shooter of the team is shooting 3s at abysmal .32%. CP3 is scoring at career low fg% if I recall correctly. Re: Harden and Inefficiency/defense: Most of the people who keep speaking against Harden's efficiency do not even actually see his games. Kobe took 3 more shots per game in the season in which he scored 35 PPG. Westbrook took the same number of shots as he is doing right now in 2016 but scored over 5 points less than Harden is scoring. Harden leads the league in deflection and is 3rd in steals. The detractors usually do not know how much attempt he is putting on defense before besmirching him for poor defesnse. |
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 14, 2019 15:15:14 GMT
What Harden is doing is great. Keep in mind that they are 22 and 10 over their past 32 games, so it is not like he is doing this and they are losing. These games are helping them win and they would not be winning without him. I have seen him force the 30 in a FEW games, but for the most part it has come naturally in the system the Rockets run, which is a lot of ISO ball. I agree with you. IMO...Houston has done some major mistakes. They rely on 3 point shooting but they have hired all the worst 3 point specialists. If they had players scoring 3s at above .4 Houston could have been a potential threat to GSW and Eastern Conference teams. But Houston players are average to below average 3 point shooters and so they won't really do well in the playoffs. That said I find it childish when people say anybody can score 36 ppg if they take a lot of shots. That's totally careless assumption. IMO only players who can create their own shots can score at level Harden is scoring. Klay Thompson for example is a catch and shoot player and relies on the quality of overall ball movement of his team on any given day. If things are good he can put up 40+ with a minimum ease and at a great efficiency. But if he doesn't get help from his team mates he won't score even 20. With Harden you know that his performance is less dependent on his teams ball movement. 88% of his points are unassisted. Next player to score most unassisted points is DeRozan (73%). I am not saying Iso players are better but only that not everyone can score 36 ppg as many people childishly believe. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 14, 2019 16:06:46 GMT
What Harden is doing is great. Keep in mind that they are 22 and 10 over their past 32 games, so it is not like he is doing this and they are losing. These games are helping them win and they would not be winning without him. I have seen him force the 30 in a FEW games, but for the most part it has come naturally in the system the Rockets run, which is a lot of ISO ball. I agree with you. IMO...Houston has done some major mistakes. They rely on 3 point shooting but they have hired all the worst 3 point specialists. If they had players scoring 3s at above .4 Houston could have been a potential threat to GSW and Eastern Conference teams. But Houston players are average to below average 3 point shooters and so they won't really do well in the playoffs.
That said I find it childish when people say anybody can score 36 ppg if they take a lot of shots. That's totally careless assumption. IMO only players who can create their own shots can score at level Harden is scoring. Klay Thompson for example is a catch and shoot player and relies on the quality of overall ball movement of his team on any given day. If things are good he can put up 40+ with a minimum ease and at a great efficiency. But if he doesn't get help from his team mates he won't score even 20. With Harden you know that his performance is less dependent on his teams ball movement. 88% of his points are unassisted. Next player to score most unassisted points is DeRozan (73%). I am not saying Iso players are better but only that not everyone can score 36 ppg as many people childishly believe. Who said anyone can score 36 ppg though? Is that a media hot take, because nobody here said that. Completely agree with your take on Thompson, what Harden is doing is much more impressive. |
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 14, 2019 16:23:41 GMT
I agree with you. IMO...Houston has done some major mistakes. They rely on 3 point shooting but they have hired all the worst 3 point specialists. If they had players scoring 3s at above .4 Houston could have been a potential threat to GSW and Eastern Conference teams. But Houston players are average to below average 3 point shooters and so they won't really do well in the playoffs.
That said I find it childish when people say anybody can score 36 ppg if they take a lot of shots. That's totally careless assumption. IMO only players who can create their own shots can score at level Harden is scoring. Klay Thompson for example is a catch and shoot player and relies on the quality of overall ball movement of his team on any given day. If things are good he can put up 40+ with a minimum ease and at a great efficiency. But if he doesn't get help from his team mates he won't score even 20. With Harden you know that his performance is less dependent on his teams ball movement. 88% of his points are unassisted. Next player to score most unassisted points is DeRozan (73%). I am not saying Iso players are better but only that not everyone can score 36 ppg as many people childishly believe. Who said anyone can score 36 ppg though? Is that a media hot take, because nobody here said that. Completely agree with your take on Thompson, what Harden is doing is much more impressive. His detractors say that. The link that I had posted in my op has this comment:
Now this is phenomenally stupid thing to say because nobody as far as I know scores so many unassisted points as Harden does. So it's pretty clear that quite a significant number of people who have pre-conceieved notions against Harden do not actually watch his games. In fact I would suspect a person who believes Harden gets a lots of open looks doesn't watch NBA itself. Of course he would have been right if he said Harden gives a lot of open looks to his inefficient teammates who waste their chances. Also, some people confuse Harden scoring unassisted points as him not assisting others. Harden was whole NBA assist leader in 2016-17 season, was still the 3rd in assists last season in spite of having to share the ball with CP3 who is probably top 5 all-time great in assists and was top 3 in assist this season too until a few games back when Capela got injured and he had no center to play with.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 14, 2019 16:44:05 GMT
Who said anyone can score 36 ppg though? Is that a media hot take, because nobody here said that. Completely agree with your take on Thompson, what Harden is doing is much more impressive. His detractors say that. The link that I had posted in my op has this comment:
Now this is phenomenally stupid thing to say because nobody as far as I know scores so many unassisted points as Harden does. So it's pretty clear that quite a significant number of people who have pre-conceieved notions against Harden do not actually watch his games. In fact I would suspect a person who believes Harden gets a lots of open looks doesn't watch NBA itself. Of course he would have been right if he said Harden gives a lot of open looks to his inefficient teammates who waste their chances. Also, some people confuse Harden scoring unassisted points as him not assisting others. Harden was whole NBA assist leader in 2016-17 season, was still the 3rd in assists last season in spite of having to share the ball with CP3 who is probably top 5 all-time great in assists and was top 3 in assist this season too until a few games back when Capela got injured and he had no center to play with.
Anyone who says his teammates are getting him open looks hasn't watched any Houston games at all, not just this season. |
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Post by DSDSquared on Feb 14, 2019 16:51:27 GMT
Who said anyone can score 36 ppg though? Is that a media hot take, because nobody here said that. Completely agree with your take on Thompson, what Harden is doing is much more impressive. His detractors say that. The link that I had posted in my op has this comment:
Now this is phenomenally stupid thing to say because nobody as far as I know scores so many unassisted points as Harden does. So it's pretty clear that quite a significant number of people who have pre-conceieved notions against Harden do not actually watch his games. In fact I would suspect a person who believes Harden gets a lots of open looks doesn't watch NBA itself. Of course he would have been right if he said Harden gives a lot of open looks to his inefficient teammates who waste their chances. Also, some people confuse Harden scoring unassisted points as him not assisting others. Harden was whole NBA assist leader in 2016-17 season, was still the 3rd in assists last season in spite of having to share the ball with CP3 who is probably top 5 all-time great in assists and was top 3 in assist this season too until a few games back when Capela got injured and he had no center to play with.
You are correct. Harden actually scores the most unassisted points in NBA history. |
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