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Post by charzhino on Feb 18, 2019 12:29:58 GMT
Piece in The Guardian today arguing that Black Panthers portrayal of women is not as empowering as often perceived. Writer lists a few reasons but the most striking one:
And this can easily be extended to all of MCUs female protagonists. Black Widow is a survivor. She got some complex emotion in AoU but didn't develop into much long term. She was there to give Bruce Banner emotional support. Wanda in the same movie is a struggler with her powers, gets a pep talk from Hawkeye and that arc ends there. Later on in the series she is a love plot device for Vision. We all know Captain Marvel will be flawless too.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/18/black-panther-oscar-feminist-film-wakanda
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 18, 2019 13:38:00 GMT
Wonder Woman manages to be all three.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 18, 2019 14:11:59 GMT
Piece in The Guardian today arguing that Black Panthers portrayal of women is not as empowering as often perceived. Writer lists a few reasons but the most striking one:
And this can easily be extended to all of MCUs female protagonists. Black Widow is a survivor. She got some complex emotion in AoU but didn't develop into much long term. She was there to give Bruce Banner emotional support. Wanda in the same movie is a struggler with her powers, gets a pep talk from Hawkeye and that arc ends there. Later on in the series she is a love plot device for Vision. We all know Captain Marvel will be flawless too.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/18/black-panther-oscar-feminist-film-wakanda
mcu has a problem with writing and story telling. black panther is no different. hate on mystique as much as you want but she has gotten more development from first class to dofp than any mcu female. so did selena from tdkr and this is because movies like tdkr or dofp are character driven movies. black panther is not one. the movie is just chasing your standard mcu formula of action and some generic story you can follow along with the action.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 18, 2019 15:03:40 GMT
mcu has a problem with writing and story telling. black panther is no different. hate on mystique as much as you want but she has gotten more development from first class to dofp than any mcu female. so did selena from tdkr and this is because movies like tdkr or dofp are character driven movies. black panther is not one. the movie is just chasing your standard mcu formula of action and some genetic story you can follow along with the action. True. Yet many people irrationally think MCU will do justice to Storm, Rogue, Psylocke etc.
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Post by bud47 on Feb 18, 2019 16:14:55 GMT
mcu has a problem with writing and story telling. black panther is no different. hate on mystique as much as you want but she has gotten more development from first class to dofp than any mcu female. so did selena from tdkr and this is because movies like tdkr or dofp are character driven movies. black panther is not one. the movie is just chasing your standard mcu formula of action and some genetic story you can follow along with the action. True. Yet many people irrationally think MCU will do justice to Storm, Rogue, Psylocke etc. Do you honestly think Fox did justice to those characters you just listed?
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Post by charzhino on Feb 18, 2019 16:31:22 GMT
True. Yet many people irrationally think MCU will do justice to Storm, Rogue, Psylocke etc. Do you honestly think Fox did justice to those characters you just listed? Rogue in X1 but others no. Point is grass not always greener on the other side despite people thinking MCU is some sort of automatic saviour
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Post by summers8 on Feb 18, 2019 17:14:50 GMT
True. Yet many people irrationally think MCU will do justice to Storm, Rogue, Psylocke etc. Do you honestly think Fox did justice to those characters you just listed? storm in X2 showed more depth as a character than black widow ever did. so did rogue all through the xmen movies. Will MCU do justice taken on one short xmen stories like DOFP or God love man kills. the answer is no.as said, we are waiting for mcu xmen to fail. it needs to hurry up.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 18, 2019 17:21:04 GMT
Piece in The Guardian today arguing that Black Panthers portrayal of women is not as empowering as often perceived. Writer lists a few reasons but the most striking one:
And this can easily be extended to all of MCUs female protagonists. Black Widow is a survivor. She got some complex emotion in AoU but didn't develop into much long term. She was there to give Bruce Banner emotional support. Wanda in the same movie is a struggler with her powers, gets a pep talk from Hawkeye and that arc ends there. Later on in the series she is a love plot device for Vision. We all know Captain Marvel will be flawless too.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/18/black-panther-oscar-feminist-film-wakanda
That's because the women in BP were side characters and thus couldn't have been given the same amount of focus as the lead and main villain. Honestly, sometimes people's lack of common sense astounds me.
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Post by summers8 on Feb 18, 2019 17:21:42 GMT
mcu has a problem with writing and story telling. black panther is no different. hate on mystique as much as you want but she has gotten more development from first class to dofp than any mcu female. so did selena from tdkr and this is because movies like tdkr or dofp are character driven movies. black panther is not one. the movie is just chasing your standard mcu formula of action and some genetic story you can follow along with the action. True. Yet many people irrationally think MCU will do justice to Storm, Rogue, Psylocke etc. is there any female dynamic that compares to storm and nightcrawler in X2? or storm taking leadership role in X3? even putting wolverine in his place when he obsesses about jean? Storm will be the first to fall. the first thing mcu will do is marry her off to black panther and that will be the death of her character. a romance hated by marvel fans in the comics already with barely any shippers. remember this is MCU, their stick is superficial crossovers? xmen stick was usually story telling and drama. this is the reason X3 is inferior to X2 or black panther is inferior to first class. the problem with crossovers has never been attractive to spiderman or xmen stories. their stories and movies do better when there are no crossovers. same goes for batman and superman. tis is the reason even in the MCU or DCU. movies like Logan, Spiderman 2, Superman 2, TDK cant be topped.
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Post by bud47 on Feb 18, 2019 17:38:10 GMT
Do you honestly think Fox did justice to those characters you just listed? storm in X2 showed more depth as a character than black widow ever did. so did rogue all through the xmen movies. Will MCU do justice taken on one short xmen stories like DOFP or God love man kills. the answer is no.as said, we are waiting for mcu xmen to fail. it needs to hurry up. Halle Berry was given a little more to do in X2 because she had just won an Oscar and had a little more pull with demanding more screentime. In the end, it didn't really add up to much. Other than her little heart to heart with Nightcrawler about anger and fear, she looked pretty bored in the role. Storm's character really took a nosedive in Apocalypse, being turned into a follower as she looked up to and idolized Mystique of all people. Storm, like Cyclops, has never been given the proper treatment on screen. Rogue's whole character arc was that she wanted to be able to make out with her boyfriend. Beyond that, she was just standing around because the filmmakers didn't know how to properly utilize her. In X2, during the climax of the film, she was literally twiddling her thumbs in the X-jet. I won't even mention Psylocke. Your mind's eye automatically sees more with these portrayals because you prefer Fox and hate the MCU. When in reality, these were minimal roles with minimal character arcs to make room for the Xavier, Magneto and Wolverine show. I'm willing to give the MCU a chance and the benefit of the doubt, though I'm not going to give them an automatic pass.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 18, 2019 17:51:38 GMT
Piece in The Guardian today arguing that Black Panthers portrayal of women is not as empowering as often perceived. Black Panther isn't empowering women at all. On the contrary, Black Panther makes women look weak. Women in Black Panther are subservient to male rulers and the highest-ranking women in Black Panther (T'Challa's mother and sister) can't even fight for the throne themselves and have to go begging another male tribal leader to fight for the throne for them.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 18, 2019 17:59:04 GMT
Piece in The Guardian today arguing that Black Panthers portrayal of women is not as empowering as often perceived. Black Panther isn't empowering women at all. On the contrary, Black Panther makes women look weak. Women in Black Panther are subservient to male rulers and the highest-ranking women in Black Panther (T'Challa's mother and sister) can't even fight for the throne themselves and have to go begging another male tribal leader to fight for the throne for them. Dude, we've already proven multiple times before that this line of yours was complete bullshit. So save all of us the trouble and just drop it yes?
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Post by charzhino on Feb 18, 2019 18:45:50 GMT
That's because the women in BP were side characters and thus couldn't have been given the same amount of focus as the lead and main villain. Honestly, sometimes people's lack of common sense astounds me. Can still give them some conflicted material to work with. Give Shuri a problem she cannot or finds difficult to solve instead of her behaving like Siri and giving rapid fire correct answers. In the scene where Killmonger is captured and brought to Tchallas throne room, Tchallas mother could have been given better dialogue than "do not do this Tchalla" and "he has no rights (killmonger)". Tchalla is faced with a dilemma. Tchallas mother could have needed to reconcile her own feelings instead of becoming a talking head, instantly dismissing this revelation (which itself is strange). Give okoyou some self reflection at what Killmonger represents once hes king. Shes not really conflicted until right at the end when black panther shows up in the field. All the women characters are behaving unfazed by any problem without introspection.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Feb 18, 2019 20:05:16 GMT
Do you honestly think Fox did justice to those characters you just listed? Rogue in X1 but others no. Point is grass not always greener on the other side despite people thinking MCU is some sort of automatic saviour Well, they saved Spider-Man, and prior to the Marvel Netflix cancellations, Daredevil, Elektra, and the Punisher.
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Post by bud47 on Feb 18, 2019 20:17:23 GMT
Rogue in X1 but others no. Point is grass not always greener on the other side despite people thinking MCU is some sort of automatic saviour Well, they saved Spider-Man, and prior to the Marvel Netflix cancellations, Daredevil, Elektra, and the Punisher. It will apply to the Fantastic Four as well. There's nowhere to go but up with that property, considering the damage Fox did.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 18, 2019 20:18:00 GMT
Based on Ms. Salami's portfolio, in order for her to consider anyone or anything feminist they/it would have to be transformed into a giant, talking clitoris. j/s I still gave the Guardian a buck anyway.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 18, 2019 20:26:30 GMT
That's because the women in BP were side characters and thus couldn't have been given the same amount of focus as the lead and main villain. Honestly, sometimes people's lack of common sense astounds me. Can still give them some conflicted material to work with. Give Shuri a problem she cannot or finds difficult to solve instead of her behaving like Siri and giving rapid fire correct answers. In the scene where Killmonger is captured and brought to Tchallas throne room, Tchallas mother could have been given better dialogue than "do not do this Tchalla" and "he has no rights (killmonger)". Tchalla is faced with a dilemma. Tchallas mother could have needed to reconcile her own feelings instead of becoming a talking head, instantly dismissing this revelation (which itself is strange). Give okoyou some self reflection at what Killmonger represents once hes king. Shes not really conflicted until right at the end when black panther shows up in the field. All the women characters are behaving unfazed by any problem without introspection. And then people will complain that not enough development was given to the main character. A movie has a time limit and a finite amount they can dedicate to characters. The more time you allocate to side characters, the less time you have for you main character. And Black Panther already dedidactes a good amount of time to their side characters, that's why it keeps getting praised for doing so. A single person's opinion against it doesn't change that fact.
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Post by bud47 on Feb 18, 2019 20:47:35 GMT
That's because the women in BP were side characters and thus couldn't have been given the same amount of focus as the lead and main villain. Honestly, sometimes people's lack of common sense astounds me. Can still give them some conflicted material to work with. Give Shuri a problem she cannot or finds difficult to solve instead of her behaving like Siri and giving rapid fire correct answers. In the scene where Killmonger is captured and brought to Tchallas throne room, Tchallas mother could have been given better dialogue than "do not do this Tchalla" and "he has no rights (killmonger)". Tchalla is faced with a dilemma. Tchallas mother could have needed to reconcile her own feelings instead of becoming a talking head, instantly dismissing this revelation (which itself is strange). Give okoyou some self reflection at what Killmonger represents once hes king. Shes not really conflicted until right at the end when black panther shows up in the field. All the women characters are behaving unfazed by any problem without introspection. And if they had done all of this, wouldn't you just find something else to complain about? You're always going to find imperfections in these films because that's all you look for. If it's not the dialogue, it's the cinematography. If it's not the cinematography, it's the CGI, etc., etc. It could check all of the boxes on a list and it still wouldn't be good enough, you'd just come up with a new set.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 18, 2019 20:53:58 GMT
Can still give them some conflicted material to work with. Give Shuri a problem she cannot or finds difficult to solve instead of her behaving like Siri and giving rapid fire correct answers. In the scene where Killmonger is captured and brought to Tchallas throne room, Tchallas mother could have been given better dialogue than "do not do this Tchalla" and "he has no rights (killmonger)". Tchalla is faced with a dilemma. Tchallas mother could have needed to reconcile her own feelings instead of becoming a talking head, instantly dismissing this revelation (which itself is strange). Give okoyou some self reflection at what Killmonger represents once hes king. Shes not really conflicted until right at the end when black panther shows up in the field. All the women characters are behaving unfazed by any problem without introspection. And then people will complain that not enough development was given to the main character. A movie has a time limit and a finite amount they can dedicate to characters. The more time you allocate to side characters, the less time you have for you main character. And Black Panther already dedidactes a good amount of time to their side characters, that's why it keeps getting praised for doing so. A single person's opinion against it doesn't change that fact. Do you not think too much time was wasted in the first act with klaue. Hes a pointless villain tbh, takes a lot of screen time which could have been distributed to Killmonger, Shuri, etc. Felt almost as if Andy Serkis has a contract obligation to fulfil so they had to fit him in the movie
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Post by charzhino on Feb 18, 2019 20:55:49 GMT
Rogue in X1 but others no. Point is grass not always greener on the other side despite people thinking MCU is some sort of automatic saviour Well, they saved Spider-Man, and prior to the Marvel Netflix cancellations, Daredevil, Elektra, and the Punisher. Debatable on Spiderman. I dont watch the TV shows but would prefer they were movies.
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