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Post by sdm3 on Feb 22, 2019 13:51:12 GMT
A thread to remember the worst moments from GoT. What are yours?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 23, 2019 15:29:15 GMT
It wasn't a worst moment. When I saw it, I burst into laughter at the obvious reference to Augustus yelling "where are my eagles!" in I, Claudius. Now, maybe that wasn't a reference at all. A disturbing thought…
Augustus does it twice, making it a comical moment:
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 24, 2019 8:44:15 GMT
It wasn't a worst moment. When I saw it, I burst into laughter at the obvious reference to Augustus yelling "where are my eagles!" in I, Claudius. Now, maybe that wasn't a reference at all. A disturbing thought… Augustus does it twice, making it a comical moment: Do you truly believe that Vanessa Taylor was making a reference to anything, let alone I, Claudius?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 24, 2019 9:56:27 GMT
It wasn't a worst moment. When I saw it, I burst into laughter at the obvious reference to Augustus yelling "where are my eagles!" in I, Claudius. Now, maybe that wasn't a reference at all. A disturbing thought… Do you truly believe that Vanessa Taylor was making a reference to anything, let alone I, Claudius? I don't know. It doesn't matter, I saw it and it made me laugh. I loved "I, Claudius", saw it many times, long ago. Maybe it was just a coincidence, maybe Emilia Clarke deserves more credit. I believe she does, actually. She makes a good job of making her character repulsive, as she should. I keep seeing people comment negatively on her acting and suspect they do so because they want her to be that saviour figure they should love but what they see is that girl trying to act as a queen and failing. Part of Daenerys' role is forced onto her. This is displayed in the early seasons in which we see two opposite faces. One is the sensitive, insecure girl talking to Jorah and the other is the loud, commanding, yet just as insecure gambler unconvincingly yelling at the Spice King in Qarth. It is meant to feel forced. And when she becomes more assured, when she takes control of her beasts and turns into a tyrant, it is also meant to be seen as such. Daenerys' character arc is opposite to Jaime's. She is meant to be pitied at first, then loved, then rejected, as the Fire threat she embodies in the story.
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 24, 2019 10:21:03 GMT
Do you truly believe that Vanessa Taylor was making a reference to anything, let alone I, Claudius? I don't know. It doesn't matter, I saw it and it made me laugh. I loved "I, Claudius", saw it many times, long ago. Maybe it was just a coincidence, maybe Emilia Clarke deserves more credit. I believe she does, actually. She makes a good job of making her character repulsive, as she should. I keep seeing people comment negatively on her acting and suspect they do so because they want her to be that saviour figure they should love but what they see is that girl trying to act as a queen and failing. Part of Daenerys' role is forced onto her. This is displayed in the early seasons in which we see two opposite faces. One is the sensitive, insecure girl talking to Jorah and the other is the loud, commanding, yet just as insecure gambler unconvincingly yelling at the Spice King in Qarth. It is meant to feel forced. And when she becomes more assured, when she takes control of her beasts and turns into a tyrant, it is also meant to be seen as such. Daenerys' character arc is opposite to Jaime's. She is meant to be pitied at first, then loved, then rejected, as the Fire threat she embodies in the story. You are giving far too much credit to the writing team. "WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS???!!!!" was awful and should be mocked.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 24, 2019 10:37:48 GMT
You are giving far too much credit to the writing team. "WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS???!!!!" was awful and should be mocked. Maybe. But it was mocked… We are winning either way.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 24, 2019 14:31:03 GMT
So, back to the associated question and other worst moments. The brothel scenes need mention here. Many will think of "play with her arse" in S1E07 but I didn't mind that one because it was used to cover the most insightful exposition by Littlefinger, telling his game and his motives. Yes, it was overdone, but it felt like it was on purpose, to distract viewers from the real stuff they were hearing at the same time. That made it deviously justified. What was indeed a lesser moment was its comeback in S2E01, with Ros repeating just the same to another prostitute. "Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?" At this point, it felt unnecessary and was topped by the next brothel scene, in S2E02, with Littlefinger peeking through a hole, watching his customers. That had no added value whatsoever, we could have just as well gone to grieving Ros immediately and I worried about the series getting worse at this point. Fortunately, it stopped there and the series did not fall into some soft porn excuse for… I don't really know who should have been the target for that, really. In the age of free porn on the Internet, I did not understand the point of this attempt at titillation. When Caligula was made in 1979, that was something else but by 2012, no, I'm afraid I didn't get it. Filler. By comparison, Theon shagging the captain's daughter on the ship was not filler. It exposed Theon the best way possible. Another bad moment in S2 was the shadow monster. I never liked the fantasy part of the story so when magic killers started appearing to resolve plot points, I feared the absolute worst. What was up next? Gandalf? Fortunately, that stopped too.
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Post by bluerisk on Feb 24, 2019 18:18:15 GMT
It wasn't a worst moment. When I saw it, I burst into laughter at the obvious reference to Augustus yelling "where are my eagles!" in I, Claudius. Now, maybe that wasn't a reference at all. A disturbing thought… Augustus does it twice, making it a comical moment: Barbarians?! They can count themselves happy that we have dealt with them centuries ago.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 25, 2019 9:53:35 GMT
It wasn't a worst moment. When I saw it, I burst into laughter at the obvious reference to Augustus yelling "where are my eagles!" in I, Claudius. Now, maybe that wasn't a reference at all. A disturbing thought… Augustus does it twice, making it a comical moment: Barbarians?! They can count themselves happy that we have dealt with them centuries ago. Romans were good to lions. Barbarians turned Christians the very moment no one was looking. Choosing sides wasn't exactly difficult
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 25, 2019 10:24:57 GMT
So, back to the associated question and other worst moments. The brothel scenes need mention here. Many will think of "play with her arse" in S1E07 but I didn't mind that one because it was used to cover the most insightful exposition by Littlefinger, telling his game and his motives. Yes, it was overdone, but it felt like it was on purpose, to distract viewers from the real stuff they were hearing at the same time. That made it deviously justified. What was indeed a lesser moment was its comeback in S2E01, with Ros repeating just the same to another prostitute. "Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?" At this point, it felt unnecessary and was topped by the next brothel scene, in S2E02, with Littlefinger peeking through a hole, watching his customers. That had no added value whatsoever, we could have just as well gone to grieving Ros immediately and I worried about the series getting worse at this point. Fortunately, it stopped there and the series did not fall into some soft porn excuse for… I don't really know who should have been the target for that, really. In the age of free porn on the Internet, I did not understand the point of this attempt at titillation. When Caligula was made in 1979, that was something else but by 2012, no, I'm afraid I didn't get it. Filler. By comparison, Theon shagging the captain's daughter on the ship was not filler. It exposed Theon the best way possible. Another bad moment in S2 was the shadow monster. I never liked the fantasy part of the story so when magic killers started appearing to resolve plot points, I feared the absolute worst. What was up next? Gandalf? Fortunately, that stopped too. Actually, the Ros scene was a nice little moment showing that she’d already risen to a kind of “madam” position in Littlefinger’s brothel. I suspect your reservations come from the fact that she wasn’t a book character.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 25, 2019 10:36:04 GMT
Actually, the Ros scene was a nice little moment showing that she’d already risen to a kind of “madam” position in Littlefinger’s brothel. I suspect your reservations come from the fact that she wasn’t a book character. I like Ros and showing her rise was a good thing. I took issue at the need to show casual intercourse and prostitute training for the sake of it. I feel the same about explicit depictions of violence. Both display an artificial attempt at appearing "adult" to come on top of the competition. Such scenes are equivalent to a plump advert saying "this is HBO and you don't get this from others".
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Seto
Sophomore
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Post by Seto on Feb 25, 2019 12:25:09 GMT
One seemingly minor scene in season 2 I like to bring up in conversations like this is the scene between Littlefinger and Cersei, where she nearly kills him spewing the "Power is Power" nonsense.
It's a ridiculous scene that is never mentioned again, and is only there to show D&D playing favourites even way back then. They love Cersei and hate Littlefinger, and this culminates in the latest season where Littlefinger is killed off like a simple nuisance, while Cersei remains the imposing Big Bad, even though it really should have been the other way around.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 26, 2019 8:05:35 GMT
One seemingly minor scene in season 2 I like to bring up in conversations like this is the scene between Littlefinger and Cersei, where she nearly kills him spewing the "Power is Power" nonsense. It's a ridiculous scene that is never mentioned again, and is only there to show D&D playing favourites even way back then. They love Cersei and hate Littlefinger, and this culminates in the latest season where Littlefinger is killed off like a simple nuisance, while Cersei remains the imposing Big Bad, even though it really should have been the other way around. To butthurt book wankers, anything done by the showrunners must be nonsense, even a straight "A = A" statement. That's their level of stupidity. Then they regularly go mad about their beloved characters not being portrayed as they wish and it's mostly Stannis, whom they fail to see as just another of the disposable pieces the story has on offer. That scene was to say that reality trumps fantasies, that knowledge is not power, no matter how much knowledgeable underdogs want it to be. It was the first part of the power riddle which Varys gives Tyrion a couple of episodes later. "Power resides where people believe it resides". Varys is right and Tywin, for once, was wrong when he asked Tyrion if he believed that a crown gives power. It does, that's why people created them or any other power symbols, to feed the belief that makes power real. Stannis: "You think a few bolts of cloth will make you King?" Renly: "No. The men holding those bolts of cloth will make me King." Renly says it, just like Cersei, these men following him are power and Stannis' belief in a fantasy is not. It seems that "ridiculous scene" book wankers don't understand was part of a larger whole. I won't disagree with Littlefinger's behaviour being out of character in it, it didn't fit his otherwise more cautious demeanour. That was sacrificed to the overarching point. Littlefinger, like Varys, was always a second row character never meant to reach main significance. Their death or survival are side events. Their purpose is to work as archetypes, shape the plot and be milestones in the arc of main characters, so Littlefinger is to Sansa what Varys is to Tyrion. Littlefinger is free chaos, Varys is compulsive order. D&D knew that. They likely knew from the start who was to make it to the end and who not or they were told the hierarchies by GRRM. They knew Stannis would be a loser, knew Rickon would remain a footnote, knew Hodor had to be made some sort of silent fan favourite for the sake of a big twist, knew Davos would survive to be Jon's enabler. I wonder if Varys will die. I gathered it was hinted at his questioning Daenerys in S7. Maybe he'll be the eye opener, the one who calls to abandon ship after finding out that the lizard bitch is not "good for the realm" after all. It will be nonsense since he has been planning with a disruptive invasion from the start, but at this point it might as well be shoved down the audience's throat and most of it won't even notice.
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 26, 2019 11:35:16 GMT
One seemingly minor scene in season 2 I like to bring up in conversations like this is the scene between Littlefinger and Cersei, where she nearly kills him spewing the "Power is Power" nonsense. It's a ridiculous scene that is never mentioned again, and is only there to show D&D playing favourites even way back then. They love Cersei and hate Littlefinger, and this culminates in the latest season where Littlefinger is killed off like a simple nuisance, while Cersei remains the imposing Big Bad, even though it really should have been the other way around. To butthurt book wankers, anything done by the showrunners must be nonsense, even a straight "A = A" statement. That's their level of stupidity. Then they regularly go mad about their beloved characters not being portrayed as they wish and it's mostly Stannis, whom they fail to see as just another of the disposable pieces the story has on offer. Indeed, it's always funny when "book wankers" as you call them insult D&D for killing their favorite characters, when in reality those two know far more about the end story and who lives/who dies than, let's face it, they ever will.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 26, 2019 17:31:39 GMT
To butthurt book wankers, anything done by the showrunners must be nonsense, even a straight "A = A" statement. That's their level of stupidity. Then they regularly go mad about their beloved characters not being portrayed as they wish and it's mostly Stannis, whom they fail to see as just another of the disposable pieces the story has on offer. Indeed, it's always funny when "book wankers" as you call them insult D&D for killing their favorite characters, when in reality those two know far more about the end story and who lives/who dies than, let's face it, they ever will. Criticism of people and wildly unverifiable assumptions about their motives or abilities are the most common thing you'll see and it will come from the most common part of the audience. I don't know who said that famous thing, but it fully applies here too: "Great Minds Discuss Ideas; Average Minds Discuss Events; Small Minds Discuss People". So you'll get a lot of "D&D can't do it" or "D&D like this and want that" from the little minds who get it all wrong instead of attempts at explaining what is bad and why. To book worshippers, different is often the only reason they'll need. I have found the show preferable to the books in many occasions and am quite happy they changed characters the way they did, even if I regret the turn they took after Season 5. I have no intention to watch the final season but I will still look for the overall outcome and the potential "ideas" in it, because I am pretty sure there will be food for discussion in there, intended or not.
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Seto
Sophomore
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Post by Seto on Feb 27, 2019 6:43:29 GMT
Indeed, it's always funny when "book wankers" as you call them insult D&D for killing their favorite characters, when in reality those two know far more about the end story and who lives/who dies than, let's face it, they ever will. Whether or not D&D know more about the story than me is irrelevant. The fact remains that they have diverted substantially from the source material. They've admitted as much, Martin has admitted as much, and most would agree that its all to the show's detriment. If you liked season 7, thats fine. However most of us found it atrocious, and its not because we are "Book Wankers," its because almost everything that happens is a contrived, childish fan-service. And if I can't blame D&D for that, who am I to blame?? Littlefinger is far from my favourite character, but anyone can clearly see his death made absolutely no sense, and I can guarantee you it won't happen that way in the books. D&D killed him off in such a way because they simply don't like him, not because they are following a Martin outline.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 27, 2019 7:40:55 GMT
Indeed, it's always funny when "book wankers" as you call them insult D&D for killing their favorite characters, when in reality those two know far more about the end story and who lives/who dies than, let's face it, they ever will. Whether or not D&D know more about the story than me is irrelevant. The fact remains that they have diverted substantially from the source material. They've admitted as much, Martin has admitted as much, and most would agree that its all to the show's detriment. Most are fools. Deviations improved the show from the juvenile fantasy crap it was taken from starting in the very first season. The quality drop in later seasons results from conscious adaptation to a mass audience, not to simply being deviations, as purist dumbfucks want to believe.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Feb 27, 2019 10:04:29 GMT
Back on topic. My next worst moment was that dreadful Mhysa scene at the end of Season 3. Not that it was badly made but it seemed to announce a change in the core of the story. It felt like Daenerys was going to be just the complete fools-bait she turned out to be but without the undertones and obvious shades she was given. Up to this point, I had not felt repulsed by any of the main characters (Joffrey, Theon or Ramsay did not count as such) or sides. I had a clear position, but it remained good sport and I enjoyed everything. Suddenly it looked like Daenerys was going to be the show's endorsed candidate, the revealed hero and I wanted no part of that. I seriously contemplated dropping off at this point, the same way I dropped off Vikings early on. Fortunately, that changed right after she took Meereen. She was then portrayed as an upcoming tyrant and that brought the balance back.
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kingslayer
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Post by kingslayer on Mar 6, 2019 0:49:43 GMT
No text walls for me, I'll just say one word: Dorne.
That is all.
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Post by sdm3 on Mar 23, 2019 22:35:37 GMT
The people of Meereen hissing at Daenerys in unison. Terrible.
The introduction of the Sand Snakes. Just an awful scene. Obara’s monologue is embarrassing.
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