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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 2, 2019 3:05:46 GMT
Rogers knew the grenade was a fake. He jumped on it just to make himself look good. And Rogers taking a super-PED is no different than Julian PEDelman ceating by taking PEDs. In both cases, Rogers and PEDelman were too lazy to put in the hard work like everyone else did so they took a shortcut by taking PEDs. He knew the grenade was fake, but still asks Tommy Lee Jones "Is this a test?" Makes perfect sense. He was pretending he didn't know. But the fact that he jumped on it proves he knew it was a fake. Unless you're a Kryptonian, a normal buman being jumping on a grenade isn't going to stop the grenade from blowing up everyone within 10 feet of the grenade. So if that was a real grenade, then anyone would know that all those soldiers standing there would be dead and jumping on the grenadw wouln't save any of them. So only an idiot would jump on a real grenade since everyone standing there would die no matter what. So either Steve Rogers was incredibly stupid to think that jumping on a grenade would save sny of the soldiets standing there, or Steve Rogers knew the grenade was fake all along. So which is it? Was Steve Rogers just incredibly stupid, or did he jump on the grenade becsuse he knew all along it was fake. Well, he was observant enough to figure out how to get the flag down from the pole, so he was probably observant enough to see Tommy Lee Jones toss the fake grenade. So Rogers knew all along yhay yhe grenade wss fake and jumped on it to make himself look heroic. |
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Post by dazz on Mar 2, 2019 7:54:02 GMT
He knew the grenade was fake, but still asks Tommy Lee Jones "Is this a test?" Makes perfect sense. He was pretending he didn't know. But the fact that he jumped on it proves he knew it was a fake. Unless you're a Kryptonian, a normal buman being jumping on a grenade isn't going to stop the grenade from blowing up everyone within 10 feet of the grenade. So if that was a real grenade, then anyone would know that all those soldiers standing there would be dead and jumping on the grenadw wouln't save any of them. So only an idiot would jump on a real grenade since everyone standing there would die no matter what. So either Steve Rogers was incredibly stupid to think that jumping on a grenade would save sny of the soldiets standing there, or Steve Rogers knew the grenade was fake all along. So which is it? Was Steve Rogers just incredibly stupid, or did he jump on the grenade becsuse he knew all along it was fake. Well, he was observant enough to figure out how to get the flag down from the pole, so he was probably observant enough to see Tommy Lee Jones toss the fake grenade. So Rogers knew all along yhay yhe grenade wss fake and jumped on it to make himself look heroic. You are an idiot, the blast of shockwave lethality of a grenade is relatively small, WW2 era grenades had less than 1.5lbs of TNT in them, 1lb of TNT from some checking has apparently a lethal blast radius of 3ft, so a ww2 grenades lethal shockwave is only about 4.5ft, not 10.
Also it has been proven that the throwing yourself on a grenade does save lives, because grenades, excuse me fragmentation grenades lethality comes from the fragmentation or shrapnel which extends beyond the shockwaves radius, by throwing oneself onto a grenade that one body absorbs the majority of the shrapnel, some can still blow beyond the body and cause injuries but it still works.
And BTW Rogers didn't cheat he was not fit to serve due to his genetics but his will to impressed the doc who brought him in regardless because the serum would correct the genetic defects holding Steve back, but Steve still needed to prove his worth as he did by showing his intellect and courage, something no one else on that base proved, their physical fitness was pointless as the serum enhanced a person to the peak a human body can reach supposedly, so everyone would have become just as strong as Steve did, just as fast and just as durable, Steve's mind and will however was beyond those he trained with which made him the better candidate, had he not proven himself he wouldn't have served or would have been relegated to office staff or something.
So you know shut up you twat, or you know you can always...
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Post by poelzig on Mar 2, 2019 9:04:41 GMT
Only to all white dudes who she DEFINITELY does not hate. She just wants to emasculate y'all. Holy cuck Captain Colden. If this site is any indication her nefarious scheme is working. Don't succumb my friend. Tell her to make you a sandwich and don't let her use her virtue signal first.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 3, 2019 1:50:00 GMT
Even when it's an unassailable virtue, like for Steve Rogers Steve Rogers isn't virtuous at all. He's a thief, he aided and abetted a double-murderer to flee from the law, and he's a traitor who spit on the Constitution. Nothing virtuous about that. Interesting how you hate Steve Rogers yet you liked and agreed with my one comment about why superheroes of classic status are not SJW's - which made mention OF Captain America.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 3, 2019 7:28:00 GMT
The serum Rogers took enabled his outer strength to match his inner strength. He took the initiative in the army, knowing that he was acting out of protocol, and saved hundreds of lives in one fell swoop. The writing was on the wall since he jumped on the dummy grenade in training; Rogers has what it takes to be a Captain. Rogers proved himself to be the best person for the job. 1. Rogers jumped on the grenade in training because he knew it was a fake and he jumped on it to make himself look "heroic". Because if it was a real grenade, no one would be stupid enough to jump on it because unless they're a Kryptonian, jumping on the grenade wouldn't stop the grenade from killing all the soldiers within 10 feet of the grenade. So why jump on a real grenade when all the soldiers standing there would die anyway? Because Rogers knew it was a fake grenade and jumped on the grenade to make himself look more "heroic". 2. The fact that he took initiative and acted out of protocol is precisely why Rogers isn't qualified to be promoted to Captain. A soldier in the Army needs to follow the orders of his commanding officer, and more so during a time of war. If each soldier decided he knew what was best and he should do what he thought was best instead of following orders, the Army would fall apart very quickly. And how could any officer expect to command a group of soldiers when that officer refuses to follow orders from his own commanding officer? Also, in addition to being able to follow orders from superiors, commanding officers must also be able to see the bigger picture and not make decisions that are too short-sighted. The US government spent millions of dollars on research and development of the super-PED that gave Rogers his superpowers. So the US government obviously doesn't want those millions of dollars to be wasted should Rogers be captured or killed by enemy soldiers, which could've happened on the rescue mission. That's why Rogers was ordered by superiors to not go on that rescue mission, which the Army didn't have any intel on. By refusing to follow orders and thus putting at risk the time and money that the US government spent on the super soldier program, Rogers proved that he couldn't see the bigger picture and made decisions that were too short-sighted and thus wasn't qualified to be a Captain, especially over more experienced and more qualified officers who could see the bigger picture and not make decisions that are too short-sighted and who had worked their butts off for many years (without the aid of any super-PED) to put themselves next in line for a promotion to Captain. Rogers wasn't an accessory to any of Bucky's assassinations. They all occurred when Rogers was frozen. Rogers wasn't exactly holding Bucky's beer when he killed Stark's parents. Doesn't matter what Rogers was doing or where Rogers was when the murders occurred. The fact that Rogers knew Bucky committed the crimes and still aided and abetted Bucky to flee from the law makes Rogers an accessory to murder after the fact. he knows Bucky's been brainwashed. And as a soldier who swore an oath to defend the Constitution, Rogers could've had Bucky's lawyers argue that defense at Bucky's trial, which every defendant is guaranteed by the Constitution. But Rogers spit on the very Constitution that he swore an oath to defend when he joined the Army by refusing to surrender Bucky over for a trial and instead appointing himself judge and jury and declaring Bucky to be innocent even when he knew that Bucky brutally killed 2 civilians. he knows a) orders are to shoot on sight Which is false, as proven by the fact that when the cops had Bucky surrounded on the street, they didn't shoot Bucky and instead arrested Bucky. Bucky was never proven to be responsible for the attack. Bucky was the prime suspect in the bombing. A trial would've determined if Bucky was guilty or not guilty. That's what trials are for. So defendants can have a chance to present their defense to a jury. But Rogers didn't want a trial for Bucky because Rogers believes that superpowered people like Bucky and the Avengers should be rule like dictators or tyrants over ordinary people with no superpowers rather than be judged by them. The most legally binding case against Rogers is he acted outside the law. So did Jean Vel Jean when he stole a loaf of bread to feed a starving family; so did Robin Hood when he robbed the rich to feed the poor; so did Rosa Parks when she refused to give up her seat on the bus. Jean Vel Jean, Robin Hood, and Rosa Parks didn't aid and abet a vicious killer who murdered 2 civilians and didn't endanger the lives of many civilians as well as law enforcement officers like Rogers did when he aided and abetted Bucky to flee from the law. Bucky was arrested by the cops after a high-speed chase on a public street. High-speed chases on public streets are very dangerous because civilians as well as law enforcement officers are often injured or killed during such high-speed chases. If Rogers had any virtue at all, he would've considered the danger of a high-speed chase on a public street and the risk to the lives of civilians as well as law enforcement officers who are just doing their duty trying to protect and serve the public. Yet Rogers gave no consideration at all to the lives of civilians or law enforcement officers by aiding and abetting Bucky to flee from the law in a high-speed chase on a public street. Moreover, there are a limited number of law enforcement officers. So if X number of law enforcement officers are assigned the task of chasing down and arresting a dangerous suspect like Bucky, that's X number of less law enforcement officers available to work on other cases and chase after other criminals. So by aiding and abetting Bucky to flee from the law and thus making law enforcement have to spend more resources and manpower to chase after Bucky, Rogers is also helping other criminals get away with crimes since there are fewer law enforcement officers and resources available to work those other cases.
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Post by scabab on Mar 3, 2019 8:29:24 GMT
So why jump on a real grenade when all the soldiers standing there would die anyway? Because Rogers knew it was a fake grenade and jumped on the grenade to make himself look more "heroic". No this is nonsense. Something like this has happened in real life more than once. www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/washington/03medal.htmlThe man jumped on top of a grenade and covered the blast so that all the fragments went into him which killed him instantly but saved four other people nearby. Theres other examples of this happening.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 3, 2019 8:36:16 GMT
So why jump on a real grenade when all the soldiers standing there would die anyway? Because Rogers knew it was a fake grenade and jumped on the grenade to make himself look more "heroic". No this is nonsense. Something like this has happened in real life more than once. www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/washington/03medal.htmlThe man jumped on top of a grenade and covered the blast so that all the fragments went into him which killed him instantly but saved four other people nearby. Theres other examples of this happening. But did any of those happen on a training base? If it was on a battlefield, that would be 1 thing. But they're on a training base. There are no enemy soldiers on a training base. Nobody would attack a training base. So only an idiot would think that grenade was real. So either Steve Rogers was a complete idiot or he knew that grenade was fake. Rogers was observant enough to see how to get the flag down from the pole so he was probably also observant enough to see Tommy Lee Jones take the fake grenade from his truck and toss it and he knew no officer would toss a real grenade at his soldiers on a training base so he knew it was a fake grenade and jumped on it to make himself look more "heroic".
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Post by dazz on Mar 3, 2019 8:41:18 GMT
DC-Fan Stop just flat out lying, the jumping on a grenade trick works, it doesn't reduce the damage from the shockwave from an explosion it does however absorb most of shrapnel damage, and as I told you already WW2 grenades have a very limited lethal blast radius, hell 10ft as you claim which is wrong isn't even that big, that's less than the length of 2 pre super soldier serum Steve Rogers, it's the shrapnel that's the real deadly aspect of an explosion, hence why bombs meant to destroy don't have them whilst bombs meant to kill are often packed with things like jars of nuts, bolts and screws, because they are what kill most people in regards to bombs. Now you want to maintain your retarded he knew it was a fake bullshit that's one thing, it's idiotic but it's not 1000% disprovable, but when you repeat a lie that has already been proven false, and can easily be factually proven as bullshit you just make yourself look like an even dumber fuck than usual, just a bit of advice.
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Post by dazz on Mar 3, 2019 8:43:18 GMT
No this is nonsense. Something like this has happened in real life more than once. www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/washington/03medal.htmlThe man jumped on top of a grenade and covered the blast so that all the fragments went into him which killed him instantly but saved four other people nearby. Theres other examples of this happening. But did any of those happen on a training base? If it was on a battlefield, that would be 1 thing. But they're on a training base. There are no enemy soldiers on a training base. Nobody would attack a training base. So only an idiot would think that grenade was real. So either Steve Rogers was a complete idiot or he knew that grenade was fake. Rogers was observant enough to see how to get the flag down from the pole so he was probably also observant enough to see Tommy Lee Jones take the fake grenade from his truck and toss it and he knew no officer would toss a real grenade at his soldiers on a training base so he knew it was a fake grenade and jumped on it to make himself look more "heroic". This is fair enough to a degree, doesn't stop your only a Kryptonian bullshit from being utterly retarded however which is what was being commented on you dingbat.
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Post by scabab on Mar 3, 2019 9:25:48 GMT
But did any of those happen on a training base? You're deflecting there. I quoted you saying this "So why jump on a real grenade when all the soldiers standing there would die anyway?" That in itself it not true as was proven in the article I gave you. By jumping on the grenade it saved people. They didn't still die anyway. Meaning there is a purpose to jumping on the grenade unlike what you said.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 19:07:03 GMT
That's definitely a theory I can do without.
I would say by projecting strength and leading by example. Saving a few hundred lives doesn't hurt his chances of being respected/followed either. Even if you were right, the army personnel in the movie weighed their options and made a choice.
It definitely matters when you make him sound like an accomplice to the murders. Rogers was AWOL.
Then it would be a different movie. Maybe you should write fan-fiction about it.
I don't remember when it happened, but I recall Sharon telling Rogers orders are to shoot on sight. It may have happened later, after Zemo enabled Bucky's escape
That is true, there are a finite number of law enforcement in the world. Bucky didn't have anything to do with them chasing him the first time. They were after him because of his alleged attack that killed T'Challa's father. If I'm framed for an attack, I'm not going to apologize for the police using their resources to catch me.
I think a lot of the rest revolves around just not liking Captain America. You haven't really said anything about why though. A lot of the above is describing the movie, detailing plot-points like Wikipedia, but I'm no closer to understanding why it bothers you.
Do you dislike seeing people rewarded for breaking rules you would have obeyed? Been skipped over for a promotion before by someone who came late?
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 3, 2019 19:43:31 GMT
It definitely matters when you make him sound like an accomplice to the murders. Rogers was AWOL. Rogers was an accessory to murder after the fact. Doesn't matter if Rogers was AWOL at the time the murders occurred. Rogers later knew that Bucky committed the murders and Rogers knowingly aided and abetted Bucky to flee from the law. That is accessory to murder after the fact. I recall Sharon telling Rogers orders are to shoot on sight. And Sharon Rogers could've been lying or gotten false intel. We can only go by the fact that when the cops had Bucky surrounded on the street, they didn't fire on Bucky and instead arrested him. So that contradicts all claims that orders were to shoot on sight since they didn't shoot when they had a clear shot. Bucky didn't have anything to do with them chasing him the first time. Yes he did. Bucky knew he was the prime suspect. If he had peacefully surrendered himself to the cops, then there wouldn't have been any high-speed chase through a crowded public street, endangering the lives of many civilians and law enforcement officers as well as taking law enforcement resources and manpower away from working on other cases and thus enabling other criminals get away with other crimes. But Bucky instead chose to flee so law enforcement had to chase after him to bring him in. If I'm framed for an attack, I'm not going to apologize for the police using their resources to catch me. And what if in the high speed chase on a public street, many civilians are killed or seriously injured. All because Bucky chose to flee from the law rather than peacefully surrender himself to law enforcement officers who were just trying to do thei job to protect and serve the public. I think a lot of the rest revolves around just not liking Captain America. You haven't really said anything about why though. Because Steve Rogers advocates for totalitarianism and tyranny over democracy. Superman is the most powerful man on Earth and could easily rule over the people like a God. But he chooses not to rule over the people and is willing to answer to the people. In MoS, Superman didn't have to surrender himself to the custody of the US military but he did so because he's willing to answer to the people. In BvS, when Congress summoned Superman to appear before a Congressional hearing, they had no power to make him appear but Superman did so because he's willing to answer to the people. In Young Justice, the Justice League caused a disburbance on another planet while they were under mind control. But instead of fleeing like Bucky did, they willingly appeared before a trial and were willing to accept the judgement of that court. In The Flash TV series, Barry Allen was framed for the murder of DeVoe and sent to jail. As the fastest man alive, Barry could've escaped from jail anytime he wanted. But he stayed in jail until he could be cleared in court of DeVoe's murder. Barry was willing to submit himself to the same legal justice system that ordinary people are subject to. Because why should ordinary people subject themselves to the legal justice system when metahumans aren't willing to do the same? By contrast, the Avengers and particularly Steve Rogers aren't willing to subject themselves to the same legal justice system that ordinary people are subject to. Because the Avengers and Steve Rogers believe that their superpowers gives them the right to be "Gods" over the people and rule over the people like tyrants and dictators do rather than be judged but he people and be subject to the same legal system that ordinary people are subject do. Basically, the Avengers and Steve Rogers believe that the legal justice system only applies to ordinary people and doesn't apply to superpowered beings like themselves.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 15:05:00 GMT
So what's the consensus?
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