Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 0:54:41 GMT
You're right that we've never seen Thor fly that fast... but we have seen Mjolnir fly that fast in TDW where got to outer space in matter of seconds. The way I see it: CM is faster in terms of flying speed and has better accuracy with her photon blasts. And when coated with her photon energy she seems very strong and tough. Without the photon energy though, Thor is clearly stronger and tougher physically. Plus he's a much better fighter. His lightning also seems a lot more destructive though he doesn't have CM's accuracy. In the end, I still think Thor is overall more powerful. The main difference is the movies are careful to not allow Thor to spam his lightning too much whereas they were perfectly fine allowing CM to spam her photon blasts. But then you have him running away from the dragon in Ragnarök and barely staying ahead of it.
Both Thor and Danvers are wrecking balls. The difference is that Danvers is swinging on a wire while Thor is rolling on the ground.
There's a marked difference in mass between the two. Mass is what you multiply by velocity (speed) to determine momentum. As for strength there's no reason to think CM has any more than the typical fit 120 lb female that struggles to do ten pull-ups and Thor is pretty damned strong. It's more like the difference between like a wrecking ball hitting and a weather balloon...
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 12, 2019 14:22:23 GMT
But then you have him running away from the dragon in Ragnarök and barely staying ahead of it.
Both Thor and Danvers are wrecking balls. The difference is that Danvers is swinging on a wire while Thor is rolling on the ground.
There's a marked difference in mass between the two. Mass is what you multiply by velocity (speed) to determine momentum. As for strength there's no reason to think CM has any more than the typical fit 120 lb female that struggles to do ten pull-ups and Thor is pretty damned strong. It's more like the difference between like a wrecking ball hitting and a weather balloon... You're suggesting that comic book characters obey the laws of physics? Also, CM obviously has super strength. She threw her enemies around like rag dolls in some of the fight scenes including alien enemies that are naturally stronger than humans.
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Marendil
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@marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 14:38:38 GMT
There's a marked difference in mass between the two. Mass is what you multiply by velocity (speed) to determine momentum. As for strength there's no reason to think CM has any more than the typical fit 120 lb female that struggles to do ten pull-ups and Thor is pretty damned strong. It's more like the difference between like a wrecking ball hitting and a weather balloon... You're suggesting that comic book characters obey the laws of physics? Also, CM obviously has super strength. She threw her enemies around like rag dolls in some of the fight scenes including alien enemies that are naturally stronger than humans. Did she? I remember her photon-blasting people to-and-fro all movie (love that visual!) but that didn't come to mind. Was it judo moves where a small relatively weak person can redirect someone's momentum remarkably and cause them to go flying with enough skill but isn't actually demonstrating that much strength? I'll look for it if I go watch it again.
His argument seemed to be predicated on the laws of physics as he understood them, thus my reply.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 12, 2019 14:53:50 GMT
I'll have to see it again to be sure but I am sure she displayed some serious strength. Even a Judo master can't send someone flying 20 feet through the air.
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Post by scabab on Mar 12, 2019 15:11:49 GMT
Yeah Captain Marvel definitely had super strength, she was batting the Skrulls and Kree around rooms and up walls and all sorts. I can't recall anything that would put her up there with Thor on arm strength alone though.
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Marendil
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@marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 15:26:57 GMT
I'll have to see it again to be sure but I am sure she displayed some serious strength. Even a Judo master can't send someone flying 20 feet through the air. 'The bigger they are the harder they fall.' If she was facing stronger opponents they'd fly further as she'd have more to re-direct.
Can you recall if she ever used strength on an inanimate object, like a car or something? She could have just forced that door with super strength, but she used the photon blast instead. That might have just been because the photon blast looks cooler though. When I originally wrote that I was thinking of instances like on the train where she nailed the Skrull right in the face and it didn't seem to faze them and we know from the Fury/Skrull fight in the car they're not particularly durable.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 12, 2019 15:54:51 GMT
She seemed about on par strengthwise with Yon-Rogg. And the kree and skrulls seemed roughly around Captain America strength. At best she might be around Spiderman level but definitely no more than that. Nowhere near Thor anyway.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 12, 2019 16:00:38 GMT
But then you have him running away from the dragon in Ragnarök and barely staying ahead of it.
Both Thor and Danvers are wrecking balls. The difference is that Danvers is swinging on a wire while Thor is rolling on the ground.
There's a marked difference in mass between the two. Mass is what you multiply by velocity (speed) to determine momentum. As for strength there's no reason to think CM has any more than the typical fit 120 lb female that struggles to do ten pull-ups and Thor is pretty damned strong. It's more like the difference between like a wrecking ball hitting and a weather balloon... What movie did you watch? She was punching at Skrulls and sending them flying because she couldn't use her blasts when her hands were covered. And she pulled herself down from that memory machine with her own strength. And that's when her powers were toned way down.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 12, 2019 16:07:28 GMT
^^ What he said. Also, she struck the pole in the train hard enough to bend it with Skrull grannie's head.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 17:04:29 GMT
I'll have to see it again to be sure but I am sure she displayed some serious strength. Even a Judo master can't send someone flying 20 feet through the air. 'The bigger they are the harder they fall.' If she was facing stronger opponents they'd fly further as she'd have more to re-direct.
Can you recall if she ever used strength on an inanimate object, like a car or something? She could have just forced that door with super strength, but she used the photon blast instead. That might have just been because the photon blast looks cooler though. When I originally wrote that I was thinking of instances like on the train where she nailed the Skrull right in the face and it didn't seem to faze them and we know from the Fury/Skrull fight in the car they're not particularly durable. She stops that warhead from Ronan's ship with brute strength and tosses it back, doesn't she?
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 12, 2019 17:12:14 GMT
'The bigger they are the harder they fall.' If she was facing stronger opponents they'd fly further as she'd have more to re-direct.
Can you recall if she ever used strength on an inanimate object, like a car or something? She could have just forced that door with super strength, but she used the photon blast instead. That might have just been because the photon blast looks cooler though. When I originally wrote that I was thinking of instances like on the train where she nailed the Skrull right in the face and it didn't seem to faze them and we know from the Fury/Skrull fight in the car they're not particularly durable. She stops that warhead from Ronan's ship with brute strength and tosses it back, doesn't she? I'm pretty sure that has more to do with her flying/propulsion than pure strength. I mean, I doubt she'd be able to pick up that warhead had she been on the ground and relying purely on physical strength.
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Marendil
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@marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 17:24:31 GMT
'The bigger they are the harder they fall.' If she was facing stronger opponents they'd fly further as she'd have more to re-direct.
Can you recall if she ever used strength on an inanimate object, like a car or something? She could have just forced that door with super strength, but she used the photon blast instead. That might have just been because the photon blast looks cooler though. When I originally wrote that I was thinking of instances like on the train where she nailed the Skrull right in the face and it didn't seem to faze them and we know from the Fury/Skrull fight in the car they're not particularly durable. She stops that warhead from Ronan's ship with brute strength and tosses it back, doesn't she? There's no gravity in space so you could turn it and I gotta figure it was whatever power that allows her to fly that did the heavy lifting to redirect the mass otherwise it would have moved her regardless of arm strength, she has no weight in space either and hardly any mass relatively.
However they might not know that and intended that scene to demonstrate super strength.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 12, 2019 17:26:25 GMT
She stops that warhead from Ronan's ship with brute strength and tosses it back, doesn't she? There's no gravity in space so you could turn it and I gotta figure it was whatever power that allows her to fly that did the heavy lifting to redirect the mass otherwise it would have moved her regardless of arm strength, she has no weight in space either and hardly any mass relatively.
However they might not know that and intended that scene to demonstrate super strength.
That scene was not in space.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 17:29:20 GMT
She stops that warhead from Ronan's ship with brute strength and tosses it back, doesn't she? I'm pretty sure that has more to do with her flying/propulsion than pure strength. I mean, I doubt she'd be able to pick up that warhead had she been on the ground and relying purely on physical strength. I figured somebody would say this. If Superman did it would we be asking if it was his propulsion? IIRC she groans a little when spinning that missle around, which suggests she's exerting physical force, not energy powers to do so. She has super strength in the comics, why wouldn't she have it in the movies? She has super strength, yet she fights regular bums h2h and they don't die. Spidey and Thor do the same thing. Cap pulls helicopters around with his bare hands and yet he doesn't take a guy's head off with every swing. Anyway, I just found this: marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Captain_MarvelThis stuff is fan generated so it should be taken with a grain of salt (example: I'm going to say it was supposed to be her energy powers more than brute strength that destroyed the attack ship), but it brings up stuff I forgot. She bends a metal bar for example, and that was before her final power-up. And yeah she sends people flying across the room with a punch. That's superhuman strength.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 17:31:10 GMT
She stops that warhead from Ronan's ship with brute strength and tosses it back, doesn't she? There's no gravity in space so you could turn it and I gotta figure it was whatever power that allows her to fly that did the heavy lifting to redirect the mass otherwise it would have moved her regardless of arm strength, she has no weight in space either and hardly any mass relatively.
However they might not know that and intended that scene to demonstrate super strength.
You're being far too scientific about this. Have you seen Ant-Man? The science in that film makes zero sense but you have to just go with it. She has super strength.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 12, 2019 17:33:24 GMT
I'm pretty sure that has more to do with her flying/propulsion than pure strength. I mean, I doubt she'd be able to pick up that warhead had she been on the ground and relying purely on physical strength. I figured somebody would say this. If Superman did it would we be asking if it was his propulsion? IIRC she groans a little when spinning that missle around, which suggests she's exerting physical force, not energy powers to do so. She has super strength in the comics, why wouldn't she have it in the movies? She has super strength, yet she fights regular bums h2h and they don't die. Spidey and Thor do the same thing. Cap pulls helicopters around with his bare hands and yet he doesn't take a guy's head off with every swing. Anyway, I just found this: marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Captain_MarvelThis stuff is fan generated so it should be taken with a grain of salt (example: I'm going to say it was supposed to be her energy powers more than brute strength that destroyed the attack ship), but it brings up stuff I forgot. She bends a metal bar for example, and that was before her final power-up. And yeah she sends people flying across the room with a punch. That's superhuman strength. Yes, if Superman did something similar and had NO previous strength feats while on land the showed similar strength levels then I'd definitely question it too. It's the same reason I don't consider Aquaman strong enough to lift an entire submarine despite being able to swim-push one. That was more due to propulsion. Let's face it, if Danvers was really strong enough physically to pick up a warhead and throw it while on land then her h2h fight scenes should have been way way more impressive. A single punch from her should have turned those Skrulls to pulp. Heck at the very least a single punch should have killed them. I don't deny that she had superstrength, I'm just saying she's not strong enough to throw around warheads on pure physical strength alone.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 17:35:47 GMT
There's a marked difference in mass between the two. Mass is what you multiply by velocity (speed) to determine momentum. As for strength there's no reason to think CM has any more than the typical fit 120 lb female that struggles to do ten pull-ups and Thor is pretty damned strong. It's more like the difference between like a wrecking ball hitting and a weather balloon... What movie did you watch? She was punching at Skrulls and sending them flying because she couldn't use her blasts when her hands were covered. And she pulled herself down from that memory machine with her own strength. And that's when her powers were toned way down. They often have unpowered humans send people flying in these shows because it looks cooler, just like people often go flying or drop instantly from small arms fire which doesn't happen in the real world. I didn't recall that as being any more special than what you might see Daredevil or the Punisher do.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 17:37:50 GMT
I figured somebody would say this. If Superman did it would we be asking if it was his propulsion? IIRC she groans a little when spinning that missle around, which suggests she's exerting physical force, not energy powers to do so. She has super strength in the comics, why wouldn't she have it in the movies? She has super strength, yet she fights regular bums h2h and they don't die. Spidey and Thor do the same thing. Cap pulls helicopters around with his bare hands and yet he doesn't take a guy's head off with every swing. Anyway, I just found this: marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Captain_MarvelThis stuff is fan generated so it should be taken with a grain of salt (example: I'm going to say it was supposed to be her energy powers more than brute strength that destroyed the attack ship), but it brings up stuff I forgot. She bends a metal bar for example, and that was before her final power-up. And yeah she sends people flying across the room with a punch. That's superhuman strength. Yes, if Superman did something similar and had NO previous strength feats while on land the showed similar strength levels then I'd definitely question it too. It's the same reason I don't consider Aquaman strong enough to lift an entire submarine despite being able to swim-push one. That was more due to propulsion. Let's face it, if Danvers was really strong enough physically to pick up a warhead and throw it while on land then her h2h fight scenes should have been way way more impressive.I addressed this earlier. Super powered heroes fight regular humans all the time in the MCU without killing them. It's really strange that people are questioning whether she has super strength. She used it multiple times. No idea if that makes her stronger than Thor or Hulk (I doubt it), but I don't care either way. A fun debate would be about who's stronger; debating whether she has super strength at all is ridiculous. (And yet, here we are. Ah, the internet. )
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 17:40:31 GMT
Is anyone going to address this or are we going with the propulsion/jiujitsu/it was space (even though it wasn't) excuse again?
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 12, 2019 17:41:34 GMT
Yes, if Superman did something similar and had NO previous strength feats while on land the showed similar strength levels then I'd definitely question it too. It's the same reason I don't consider Aquaman strong enough to lift an entire submarine despite being able to swim-push one. That was more due to propulsion. Let's face it, if Danvers was really strong enough physically to pick up a warhead and throw it while on land then her h2h fight scenes should have been way way more impressive.I addressed this earlier. Super powered heroes fight regular humans all the time in the MCU without killing them. It's really strange that people are questioning whether she has super strength. She used it multiple times. No idea if that makes her stronger than Thor or Hulk (I doubt it), but I don't care either way. A fun debate would be about who's stronger; debating whether she has super strength at all is ridiculous. (And yet, here we are. Ah, the internet. ) I don't recall any human (or chitauri or ultronbot) that survived after taking a direct hit from Thor or Hulk (at least that I recall). And I don't believe Thor or Hulk is anywhere near strong enough to pick up and throw a warhead. So like I said, I do believe Danvers has superstrength, but I put her around the same level as Spiderman based on how strong the other kree/skrull were and how they were still able to hurt her.
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