|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 13, 2019 23:16:24 GMT
You watched the worst episodes of the show and based it's overall quality on that. Everybody agrees that majority of AoS's first episodes were lackluster... but they were still better than Ironfist. And the succeeding seasons pretty much make it one of the best superhero shows around. I watched the worst eps? Maybe the show wasn't good to begin with. Hell like I said I even tried skipping around to see if the seasons improved nope. Best shows are punisher and Daredevil. Even Iron Fist is better. Agents of SHIELD took a while to find its footing in the first season but it eventually actualized its potential as an X-Files meets Stargate meets 24 type of show based in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Meanwhile neither season of Iron Fist was able to actualize the potential of a long lost billionaire who returns from another realm with god-like power and sick martial arts skills found nowhere else, instead of making a fast paced, stylized, pulpy action drama in vein of numerous Tony Jaa movies they made a very bland, slow paced, "been there done that" kind of show with a couple of cool bits but nothing to write home about. The second season was an improvement but even still we still were in the dark about the fantastical land of Kun Lun and didn't get a taste of its wonderment and Danny was still made into an uber wuss - got his ass handed to him by people with less martial arts training than he did. The best portrayal of Iron Fist in the MCU has been in Luke Cage's second season. The Punisher is not really a superhero so its a bit of a dubious claim to say it's one of the best superhero shows out there, the first season was superb but the second one was incredibly dull and boring. There was far too much noticeable filler, Frank felt out of character in places, the newer characters were annoying and did little to serve the plot, the action was lacking for the most part, and Jigsaw was such a let down. As said before, a Punisher show should aim to be like a Paul Verhoeven movie. Daredevil is the only consistently great MCU show, it was in top form from start to finish whereas every other show either began great but dipped in quality as it went on or began sort of weak but eventually got better.
|
|
|
|
Post by merh on Mar 14, 2019 0:42:31 GMT
I cant help but agree, I've not seen anyone (here at least) criticize the movie on the basis of CM or Brie Larson being a woman or stating they don't want to see women have an equal place in humanity. To be fair, I haven't actually seen anyone anywhere complain about Brie Larson being a woman or Captain Marvel being a female-led film. You missed the people bitching Mar-Vell is a guy/why did Marvel skip him? Which goes in hand with the bitching about Monica Rambeau being the first female CM, why did Marvel whitewash the character. So, yeah Sort of anti-female & anti-Brie. Carol Danvers has been in the title(the comic book) as a colleague of Mar-Vell since 1968. Originally because Mar-Vell was the Captain of the title, Carol was Ms Marvel, but it's a matter of title is all. Ms vs Captain isn't really a big deal.
|
|
|
|
Post by merh on Mar 14, 2019 1:17:48 GMT
To be fair, I haven't actually seen anyone anywhere complain about Brie Larson being a woman or Captain Marvel being a female-led film. I've not bothered to look around much, the ether is a cesspool these days, but in a brief survey I didn't see it either. However since someone might do it somewhere people like Gregg cluelessly employ the fallacy of composition and assume it must be true of all those critical of Brie Larson or CM. Then a bunch of fellow travelers applaud his 'brave' stance causing his serotonin to spike encouraging him to believe he must be right and should do more of the same never realizing he's just being conditioned into dingbattery.
He's much better playing Phil.
He isn't being clueless. He's responding to the wounded souls who without seeing the movie rated it "1" or similar low scores. When I looked at IMDb a week ago their scores were 30% 10 & 30% 1 so the battle was already started before this movie started regular screenings Thursday night. I watch most of the comic book stuff. Not Arrow. I'm struggling with Black Lightning but its not resonating with me. Too much teen angst I think. We just got CW back in January so the only title I bothered to buy was Supergirl last season because I REALLY love the feel of the show. I note it has a lot of hate out there from the male audience. Males---<18---18-29--30-44--45+ 6.3_____6.5____6.2___6.2___6.4 48,166__292__17,489_17,374_6,651 Females 7.0_____8.0____7.2___6.9____6.8 15,307__152___6,374_5,014__1,626 Sort of Supergirl feels aimed at women, but guys hate it? Same with CM Demographic All Ages_<18__18-29__30-44__45+ Males 6.9______7.6___7.0____6.9___6.9 75,886__572__29,323_28,189_6,291 Females 8.0______8.2___8.0___8.0____7.9 12,769____84_5,456__4,349___987 WW the genders are closer. I didn't include it because it's an old character. Several of the female officers I work with have statues & such of her which is why I figured CM didnt stand a chance of beating it. But as I said, CM resonates with me better. I suspect that's just Marvel. I read Supergirl & Superboy when I was a child because the stories worked for my grade school brain. To be fair, 60s comics weren't really all that complex. But by the 70s Marvel felt more human. Secret identities seemed to exist so the DC heroes could gather intel. Marvel heroes their personal lives had an existence. We saw they had plans that being heroes interfered with. The hero identity felt more the secret. We knew them as their human selves first.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 14, 2019 1:27:21 GMT
To be fair, I haven't actually seen anyone anywhere complain about Brie Larson being a woman or Captain Marvel being a female-led film. You missed the people bitching Mar-Vell is a guy/why did Marvel skip him? Which goes in hand with the bitching about Monica Rambeau being the first female CM, why did Marvel whitewash the character. So, yeah Sort of anti-female & anti-Brie. Carol Danvers has been in the title(the comic book) as a colleague of Mar-Vell since 1968. Originally because Mar-Vell was the Captain of the title, Carol was Ms Marvel, but it's a matter of title is all. Ms vs Captain isn't really a big deal. Complaining about why Mar-vell was skipped is not the same thing as complaining about a female led film or about Brie being a woman. Saying, "Why are we getting Ms. Marvel instead of Mar-vell?!" is pretty different from saying "Women can't be superhero leads!". |
|
|
|
Post by merh on Mar 14, 2019 2:41:24 GMT
You missed the people bitching Mar-Vell is a guy/why did Marvel skip him? Which goes in hand with the bitching about Monica Rambeau being the first female CM, why did Marvel whitewash the character. So, yeah Sort of anti-female & anti-Brie. Carol Danvers has been in the title(the comic book) as a colleague of Mar-Vell since 1968. Originally because Mar-Vell was the Captain of the title, Carol was Ms Marvel, but it's a matter of title is all. Ms vs Captain isn't really a big deal. Complaining about why Mar-vell was skipped is not the same thing as complaining about a female led film or about Brie being a woman. Saying, "Why are we getting Ms. Marvel instead of Mar-vell?!" is pretty different from saying "Women can't be superhero leads!". I love Mar-Vell. I have a lot of his comics & I was pissed we didn't get him (& Adam Warlock), but at the end of the day, it is Marvel's bat & ball. They call the shots If we don't like it, we can not play. If you notice the comments, they are pretty similar to the GB16 stuff. It's the sort of stuff we take in & don't say anything about because good girls don't cause trouble. Guy cat-calls you, just ignore him & hope he doesnt get aggressive There is a difference between Carol Danvers & Natasha Romanoff. Can you see it? If you can't, then you will never see the subtle issue underlying this debate. I've gone into it more on the politics board. My husband raping me & when I confronted him the next morning I got yeah, so what? no one will believe you. The he had to put me down to make himself feel better He was dead a decade before I talked about it because it was so shameful. Somehow it was my fault. I should have been able to stop him. So yeah. Guys demean gals for a reason
|
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 14, 2019 2:53:21 GMT
Complaining about why Mar-vell was skipped is not the same thing as complaining about a female led film or about Brie being a woman. Saying, "Why are we getting Ms. Marvel instead of Mar-vell?!" is pretty different from saying "Women can't be superhero leads!". I love Mar-Vell. I have a lot of his comics & I was pissed we didn't get him (& Adam Warlock), but at the end of the day, it is Marvel's bat & ball. They call the shots If we don't like it, we can not play. If you notice the comments, they are pretty similar to the GB16 stuff. It's the sort of stuff we take in & don't say anything about because good girls don't cause trouble. Guy cat-calls you, just ignore him & hope he doesnt get aggressive There is a difference between Carol Danvers & Natasha Romanoff. Can you see it? If you can't, then you will never see the subtle issue underlying this debate. I've gone into it more on the politics board. My husband raping me & when I confronted him the next morning I got yeah, so what? no one will believe you. The he had to put me down to make himself feel better He was dead a decade before I talked about it because it was so shameful. Somehow it was my fault. I should have been able to stop him. So yeah. Guys demean gals for a reason Err... I think we're starting to wander off topic. I'm simply pointing out that preferring one character over another is quite different from disliking them simply for their gender. Preferring Mar-vell over Ms. Marvel is like people who complained why we got Scott Lang instead of Hank Pym. If you want to get into a discussion of Natasha Romanoff vs. Carol Danvers then we can do that separately. I'm sorry to hear about your experience, and if you want to discuss about cat-calls and rape and humiliation then we can talk about that separately as well. However, I don't believe they're really that connected with what I had originally said. And people demean people for a reason. Guys do it to gals. Gals do it to guys. Guys do it to guys and gals do it to gals.
|
|
|
|
Post by merh on Mar 14, 2019 4:01:23 GMT
I love Mar-Vell. I have a lot of his comics & I was pissed we didn't get him (& Adam Warlock), but at the end of the day, it is Marvel's bat & ball. They call the shots If we don't like it, we can not play. If you notice the comments, they are pretty similar to the GB16 stuff. It's the sort of stuff we take in & don't say anything about because good girls don't cause trouble. Guy cat-calls you, just ignore him & hope he doesnt get aggressive There is a difference between Carol Danvers & Natasha Romanoff. Can you see it? If you can't, then you will never see the subtle issue underlying this debate. I've gone into it more on the politics board. My husband raping me & when I confronted him the next morning I got yeah, so what? no one will believe you. The he had to put me down to make himself feel better He was dead a decade before I talked about it because it was so shameful. Somehow it was my fault. I should have been able to stop him. So yeah. Guys demean gals for a reason Err... I think we're starting to wander off topic. I'm simply pointing out that preferring one character over another is quite different from disliking them simply for their gender. Preferring Mar-vell over Ms. Marvel is like people who complained why we got Scott Lang instead of Hank Pym. If you want to get into a discussion of Natasha Romanoff vs. Carol Danvers then we can do that separately. I'm sorry to hear about your experience, and if you want to discuss about cat-calls and rape and humiliation then we can talk about that separately as well. However, I don't believe they're really that connected with what I had originally said. And people demean people for a reason. Guys do it to gals. Gals do it to guys. Guys do it to guys and gals do it to gals. So on this board specifically you have the guys who trash Marvel because it's Marvel, but I actually listened to some of those videos people were linking & the debate was anti-woman. So, yeah, those are the dinosaurs that need to slog over to the tar pits. Is it here or the politics board where one poster keeps dragging Hillary Clinton into it. Like that has crap to do with superheroes? I know at least one of the video links someone put up ended up with the guy ranting about Trump being so great as if CM was an attack on Trump It's a weird, thin-skinned sort of thing. Like DC bitching that Larson asking for diversity was an attack on white guys because it should be the most qualified, but when the senior reporter has the most experience because they didnt hire women or people of color to do that job for years, the deck is stacked. How many gals cover sports? Usually it's a guy so what chance does a gal have? Trevor Noah pointed out, & I can find & link an article if you want, that the problem isn't guys at the top saying let's be more diverse in hiring, because apparently the problem comes in middle management where they promote people they see as most similar to themselves so when middle management is a bunch of white guys, yeah, the gals & people of color don't get promoted. Which means less diversity makes it to the top Hank & Scott are a different topic. They sort of screwed Pym over in the comics so he became less desirable. Though the MCU seem to have skipped the whole spousal abuse by losing Janet for a few decades
|
|
|
|
Post by blockbusted on Mar 14, 2019 4:41:03 GMT
I can't blame him for saying that since there are some truly obnoxious dumb@$$es who are pulling out all sorts of BS from their anus about this film, the latest being the empty seat claim, in which Disney is apparently buying empty cinemas for 'Captain Marvel'.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 14, 2019 5:09:56 GMT
Err... I think we're starting to wander off topic. I'm simply pointing out that preferring one character over another is quite different from disliking them simply for their gender. Preferring Mar-vell over Ms. Marvel is like people who complained why we got Scott Lang instead of Hank Pym. If you want to get into a discussion of Natasha Romanoff vs. Carol Danvers then we can do that separately. I'm sorry to hear about your experience, and if you want to discuss about cat-calls and rape and humiliation then we can talk about that separately as well. However, I don't believe they're really that connected with what I had originally said. And people demean people for a reason. Guys do it to gals. Gals do it to guys. Guys do it to guys and gals do it to gals. So on this board specifically you have the guys who trash Marvel because it's Marvel, but I actually listened to some of those videos people were linking & the debate was anti-woman. So, yeah, those are the dinosaurs that need to slog over to the tar pits. Is it here or the politics board where one poster keeps dragging Hillary Clinton into it. Like that has crap to do with superheroes? I know at least one of the video links someone put up ended up with the guy ranting about Trump being so great as if CM was an attack on Trump It's a weird, thin-skinned sort of thing. Like DC bitching that Larson asking for diversity was an attack on white guys because it should be the most qualified, but when the senior reporter has the most experience because they didnt hire women or people of color to do that job for years, the deck is stacked. How many gals cover sports? Usually it's a guy so what chance does a gal have? Trevor Noah pointed out, & I can find & link an article if you want, that the problem isn't guys at the top saying let's be more diverse in hiring, because apparently the problem comes in middle management where they promote people they see as most similar to themselves so when middle management is a bunch of white guys, yeah, the gals & people of color don't get promoted. Which means less diversity makes it to the top Hank & Scott are a different topic. They sort of screwed Pym over in the comics so he became less desirable. Though the MCU seem to have skipped the whole spousal abuse by losing Janet for a few decades Do you mind providing a link for one of these videos against Captain Marvel that was clearly anti-woman? |
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
 
|
Post by Marendil on Mar 14, 2019 6:24:45 GMT
I've not bothered to look around much, the ether is a cesspool these days, but in a brief survey I didn't see it either. However since someone might do it somewhere people like Gregg cluelessly employ the fallacy of composition and assume it must be true of all those critical of Brie Larson or CM. Then a bunch of fellow travelers applaud his 'brave' stance causing his serotonin to spike encouraging him to believe he must be right and should do more of the same never realizing he's just being conditioned into dingbattery.
He's much better playing Phil.
He isn't being clueless. He's responding to the wounded souls who without seeing the movie rated it "1" or similar low scores. When I looked at IMDb a week ago their scores were 30% 10 & 30% 1 so the battle was already started before this movie started regular screenings Thursday night. I watch most of the comic book stuff. Not Arrow. I'm struggling with Black Lightning but its not resonating with me. Too much teen angst I think. We just got CW back in January so the only title I bothered to buy was Supergirl last season because I REALLY love the feel of the show. I note it has a lot of hate out there from the male audience. Males---<18---18-29--30-44--45+ 6.3_____6.5____6.2___6.2___6.4 48,166__292__17,489_17,374_6,651 Females 7.0_____8.0____7.2___6.9____6.8 15,307__152___6,374_5,014__1,626 Sort of Supergirl feels aimed at women, but guys hate it? Same with CM Demographic All Ages_<18__18-29__30-44__45+ Males 6.9______7.6___7.0____6.9___6.9 75,886__572__29,323_28,189_6,291 Females 8.0______8.2___8.0___8.0____7.9 12,769____84_5,456__4,349___987 WW the genders are closer. I didn't include it because it's an old character. Several of the female officers I work with have statues & such of her which is why I figured CM didnt stand a chance of beating it. But as I said, CM resonates with me better. I suspect that's just Marvel. I read Supergirl & Superboy when I was a child because the stories worked for my grade school brain. To be fair, 60s comics weren't really all that complex. But by the 70s Marvel felt more human. Secret identities seemed to exist so the DC heroes could gather intel. Marvel heroes their personal lives had an existence. We saw they had plans that being heroes interfered with. The hero identity felt more the secret. We knew them as their human selves first. But why were they rating CM a 'one,' was it politics or the reason he stated? The evidence I saw strongly suggested the former. I'm sure there are some out there who fit his description but trying to use that to tar everyone else with the same brush is why I invoked the fallacy of composition.
As for the Supergirl ratings they don't suggest that at all, in fact there's many more males who liked it than females. The average rating for females is higher, but there's two obvious factors potentially at work, first that females might naturally be inclined to like a show seemingly aimed at them and also a concept known as 'regression towards the mean.' That is, the more instances of something the more likely higher average scores will decrease and lower scores increase. As there's many more males voting you'd expect the score to be naturally lower.
Digging into it further I noted there was a much higher instance of '1' scores given by males but even then it could very well indicate other phenomena at work, for example the tendency of some to give a very high or low score to affect the ratings more if they think something is overrated or underrated. I know I gave a number of shows and movies higher scores if I felt the score was too low, or people were being unfair to it for reasons that irritated me. I don't do it the other way but I'm sure some who feel something is overrated have fewer compunctions about lowering the score with a 'one.' Then you have the ones who are Marvel fans who will give it a 'one' simply because it's a DC show, perhaps you've noticed there's something of a rivalry going on.
That there are no doubt some that fit the worst possible description just leads us back to the fallacy of composition which is often the essence of bigotry. Claiming that one group can't be discriminated against because the group on the whole does better is the fallacy of division. That one particular political faction seems to be trying to turn those two particular fallacies into an art form makes my teeth ache and is one of the reasons I'd prefer it if Clark would STFU and just play Phil and not contribute to the idiocy that is polarizing this country and others, perhaps beyond repair.
As for Supergirl I remember a thread on it posted on the AoS board, I gave it a pass because to me it looked like it was aimed at the 'Twilight' crowd, plus I mostly read Marvel comics like yourself as I tended to think of DC characters in terms of the Superfriends. The themes in Marvel like in the X-Men, Iron Man with his drinking problem or Peter Parker's rent troubles seemed more adult, though I did pick up "Suicide Squad" every month and a couple others. I asked in that thread for recommendations but I didn't get much of a response so I never bothered to give it a go. I didn't make it through the first season of "Arrow" personally.
|
|
|
|
Post by DSDSquared on Mar 14, 2019 12:34:10 GMT
Yeah, so you basically watched less than 1 season. Which means you don't really have a good idea of its quality. Wrong I got everything I needed from the show. I have been more than generous most people call it quits after 1-3 eps if they are not sold but I gave it almost a whole season because you all claimed it gets better. Never did get better hell i even skipped around to see if later seasons improved nope. Even Arrow,smallville and Flash had me sold by ep 1. Even the blade show from spike tv had me sold after 1 ep. The first season of SHIELD is not just the worst season, but it is BY FAR the worst season. The show has gotten better every year.
|
|
|
|
Post by DSDSquared on Mar 14, 2019 12:37:00 GMT
Captain Marvel was average. I like Gregg, but he is way off here. I like Wonder Woman a lot. Why am I sexist now for not liking this one nearly as much? Should I have hated Aliens too?
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Mar 14, 2019 18:55:51 GMT
Captain Marvel was average. I like Gregg, but he is way off here. I like Wonder Woman a lot. Why am I sexist now for not liking this one nearly as much? Should I have hated Aliens too? They didn't give Gregg much to work with and that surprised me, why not include him with Fury when they went to the bar and from then on? Doesn't make sense.
His CGI de-aging seemed to be off too, it looked more like he was wearing make-up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Feologild Oakes on Mar 14, 2019 18:59:04 GMT
Captain Marvel was average. I like Gregg, but he is way off here. I like Wonder Woman a lot. Why am I sexist now for not liking this one nearly as much? Should I have hated Aliens too? Yes if you don`t like Captain Marvel it makes you sexist pig. That is pretty much how it works it seems.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 19:39:44 GMT
Captain Marvel was average. I like Gregg, but he is way off here. I like Wonder Woman a lot. Why am I sexist now for not liking this one nearly as much? Should I have hated Aliens too? Yes if you don`t like Captain Marvel it makes you sexist pig. That is pretty much how it works it seems. Only if that's what you want to believe. God, you'd think you were all Sisyphus doomed to push the boulder up the hill for all eternity because you don't like Captain Marvel. The martyrdom of it all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Feologild Oakes on Mar 14, 2019 20:26:22 GMT
Yes if you don`t like Captain Marvel it makes you sexist pig. That is pretty much how it works it seems. Only if that's what you want to believe. God, you'd think you were all Sisyphus doomed to push the boulder up the hill for all eternity because you don't like Captain Marvel. The martyrdom of it all. As i have not seen Captain Marvel i have not made any comments about the movie.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 20:38:45 GMT
Only if that's what you want to believe. God, you'd think you were all Sisyphus doomed to push the boulder up the hill for all eternity because you don't like Captain Marvel. The martyrdom of it all. As i have not seen Captain Marvel i have not made any comments about the movie. No but you're agreeing with the perception that disliking Captain Marvel for some reason makes you a sexist pig. I'm saying it's all in your heads if that's what you want. My comment stands.
|
|
|
|
Post by merh on Mar 16, 2019 9:38:24 GMT
So on this board specifically you have the guys who trash Marvel because it's Marvel, but I actually listened to some of those videos people were linking & the debate was anti-woman. So, yeah, those are the dinosaurs that need to slog over to the tar pits. Is it here or the politics board where one poster keeps dragging Hillary Clinton into it. Like that has crap to do with superheroes? I know at least one of the video links someone put up ended up with the guy ranting about Trump being so great as if CM was an attack on Trump It's a weird, thin-skinned sort of thing. Like DC bitching that Larson asking for diversity was an attack on white guys because it should be the most qualified, but when the senior reporter has the most experience because they didnt hire women or people of color to do that job for years, the deck is stacked. How many gals cover sports? Usually it's a guy so what chance does a gal have? Trevor Noah pointed out, & I can find & link an article if you want, that the problem isn't guys at the top saying let's be more diverse in hiring, because apparently the problem comes in middle management where they promote people they see as most similar to themselves so when middle management is a bunch of white guys, yeah, the gals & people of color don't get promoted. Which means less diversity makes it to the top Hank & Scott are a different topic. They sort of screwed Pym over in the comics so he became less desirable. Though the MCU seem to have skipped the whole spousal abuse by losing Janet for a few decades Do you mind providing a link for one of these videos against Captain Marvel that was clearly anti-woman? I'm working on it, but lots of home drama. Mom got pneumonia, ended up in a nursing home, but we got her home, but it has been up & down. Found this. Starts around the 9 minute mark ranting about Captain Manpants helping humanity evolve into light sexist crap, missing entirely Thor, as a warrior, is eye contesting Carol & she passes like Vision passed Thor's test. She doesn't break gaze. Doesn't flinch.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Mar 16, 2019 11:57:00 GMT
Do you mind providing a link for one of these videos against Captain Marvel that was clearly anti-woman? I'm working on it, but lots of home drama. Mom got pneumonia, ended up in a nursing home, but we got her home, but it has been up & down. Found this. Starts around the 9 minute mark ranting about Captain Manpants helping humanity evolve into light sexist crap, missing entirely Thor, as a warrior, is eye contesting Carol & she passes like Vision passed Thor's test. She doesn't break gaze. Doesn't flinch. Geez, I'm sorry to hear about your mother!
He didn't watch the movie, he's going off trailers which is why he made such a fool of himself regarding how she's portrayed in the movie.
Not liking radical feminism doesn't make someone anti-woman.
|
|
|
|
Post by merh on Mar 16, 2019 22:51:04 GMT
Captain Marvel was average. I like Gregg, but he is way off here. I like Wonder Woman a lot. Why am I sexist now for not liking this one nearly as much? Should I have hated Aliens too? Wonder woman worked well with men. Steve Trevor even "made her a woman" before the final battle.
|
|
