What Wrestler Became Better By Going From WWE To WCW?

Mar 14, 2019 7:26:20 GMT @smurfbate said:

My 2nd choice would probably be Jeff Jarrett. I never liked Jeff Jarrett when he was in WWF/E but honestly, I kind of enjoyed him in spurts in WCW. He came off more like a star in WCW then he ever did in WWF/E. I'll be honest, I enjoyed the catch phrase slap nuts. Thought it was kind of funny personally idk.

I would completely disagree Jeff never came across as a bigger star, his run in WCW more showed the decline of WCW as here was a mid card champ for the WWF headlining WCW shows, also fits with how WCW's business declined during this time greatly, I mean heres the guy 6 weeks earlier was barely holding his own with Chyna suddenly on par with the likes of Benoit, Hart, Sting, DDP and so on.

Also his booking never helped, he was literally booked as the bookers stooge who was put into position because the people in charge liked him, and he had to have constant help and interference to remain at that level.

Mar 15, 2019 4:39:03 GMT @smurfbate said:

Mar 15, 2019 3:05:33 GMT dazz said:

Lex Luger, in WCW Luger was a main eventer and though he may not have been a draw he could get over with the crowd, in WWF he came in hot but within like a year Luger was reduced to being a mid card talent working the likes on Tatanka.

Scott Hall, in the WWF Hall was an upper mid carder or B show headliner, whilst entertaining he never really got to that top guy spot after his initial push, in WCW Hall was one of the driving forces behind then nWo and through that one of the hottest properties and biggest draws through late 96- early 98.

Raven, in WWF he was Johnny Polo in WCW he was Raven, sure ECW came inbetween but still Raven held both the US and World Tag Titles in WCW in the late 90's fueding with future world champions on the cusp of getting their big pushes like DDP, Goldberg & Benoit where as in the WWF he was the goofball manager, even when he came back to WWF as Raven they saw him as lower mid card and left him either in the Hardcore title picture t best or random dude working the B shows and dark matches.

Steiners, in WWF they were part of the tag division and that was it, in WCW both guys had good singles runs, Scott was a grand slam champion in WCW whilst Rick only failed to win the World Title, both guys did worlds better in WCW than they did in the WWF.

Good choices. I ask this about Hall, was Hall not just an upper mid carder in WCW as well? He never won a World Championship and was mostly in tag team action in WCW which while being a member of NWO is a huge boom it's still not in my opinion better than his run as a multi time IC Champion as Razor Ramon. I think he had a US title run maybe once or twice.

In WCW he was upper mid card to main event, where as WWF he could be as low as mid card at worst to being occasional main event/B show main event, also as The Outsiders Hall & Nash were main eventers even when Hogan was hogging the spotlight, they were as big a reason to come see WCW or tune in on Monday nights as  anyone else, in WWF he was more just one of the crowd with a few exceptions.

Titles also don't mean shit really, Piper held the IC title briefly and the US title briefly and that's about it, but he was one of the top guys in the business during the early WWF days, as a performer you can debate which was better, because match wise Razor was his peak, but as a character Hall in WCW when he was on he was awesome, but I think Scott Hall is better remembered as Scott Hall than he is Razor Ramon.

Mar 15, 2019 7:32:41 GMT @smurfbate said:

Mar 15, 2019 7:11:03 GMT dazz said:

In WCW he was upper mid card to main event, where as WWF he could be as low as mid card at worst to being occasional main event/B show main event, also as The Outsiders Hall & Nash were main eventers even when Hogan was hogging the spotlight, they were as big a reason to come see WCW or tune in on Monday nights as  anyone else, in WWF he was more just one of the crowd with a few exceptions.

Titles also don't mean shit really, Piper held the IC title briefly and the US title briefly and that's about it, but he was one of the top guys in the business during the early WWF days, as a performer you can debate which was better, because match wise Razor was his peak, but as a character Hall in WCW when he was on he was awesome, but I think Scott Hall is better remembered as Scott Hall than he is Razor Ramon.

Fair enough. As the saying goes, the person makes the title not the title makes the person. Scott Hall/Razor Ramon is in my top 3 of guys who should have had a World title reign somewhere. (along with Mr Perfect/Curt Hennig and Jake Roberts)

I guess it's just me then as I don't look too fondly on his WCW tenure. I mean sure the NWO was a big deal but how long did it last as a big deal because in my mind they ruined it pretty fast by adding 100 members? It's probably just the child in me that remembers Razor being a bigger deal than maybe he truly was.

I will definitely say his ring gear got 100% better in WCW. That blood drip attire was fucking awesome. It felt like a nod to Scarface which was in itself what his Razor Ramon character was based off of. Was just too damn clean. Loved it.

Yeah the nWo as a whole lost a lot of impact when every other "WWF" type of guy became one of the group, but Hogan & The Outsiders as well as Macho were always in another class to the rest of the group, which is why Hall, Nash & Macho were always viable contenders when Hulk wasn't champ, which is what really sort of hurt their runs, being in the group with Hulk limited how many main events they got, which Hall suffered worse for because when the nWo split he was the one stuck on Team Hogan.

But clearly he was seen as a top guy in WCW, just look at how he got paid differently, in WWF he was on an estimated $250k a year, 3-4x less than the top guys were at least, in WCW I think he signed for $700k or so, then when Mash came in he got a bump due to favoured nations, then thanks to the Fake Razor & Diesel thing they tricked WCW into giving them more, then when he & Nash annoyed Hulk enough they got bumped to over $1m a piece, finally when Bret came in they got the same deal he did, in the span of 2 years Hall went from $250k a year to over $1.3m, had he not got fired his final year was meant to be like for $1.6m+, bank account wise WCW was much better for him.

Mar 15, 2019 8:53:14 GMT @smurfbate said:

Mar 15, 2019 7:47:44 GMT dazz said:

Yeah the nWo as a whole lost a lot of impact when every other "WWF" type of guy became one of the group, but Hogan & The Outsiders as well as Macho were always in another class to the rest of the group, which is why Hall, Nash & Macho were always viable contenders when Hulk wasn't champ, which is what really sort of hurt their runs, being in the group with Hulk limited how many main events they got, which Hall suffered worse for because when the nWo split he was the one stuck on Team Hogan.

But clearly he was seen as a top guy in WCW, just look at how he got paid differently, in WWF he was on an estimated $250k a year, 3-4x less than the top guys were at least, in WCW I think he signed for $700k or so, then when Mash came in he got a bump due to favoured nations, then thanks to the Fake Razor & Diesel thing they tricked WCW into giving them more, then when he & Nash annoyed Hulk enough they got bumped to over $1m a piece, finally when Bret came in they got the same deal he did, in the span of 2 years Hall went from $250k a year to over $1.3m, had he not got fired his final year was meant to be like for $1.6m+, bank account wise WCW was much better for him.

The money thing doesn't apply in my opinion because the topic is who got better as a wrestler/character when they went to WCW. Anyone who reads the internet know that Nash and Hall changed the game in terms of contracts and WCW. Bischoff spent Turner money like it was nothing and in the end it took them out of business.

Hall may have been paid as a top guy but I don't think his on air character portrayed that. WCW paid a lot of people. In my mind Hall was fine getting paid top dollar and didn't try and get better. In WWF/E he had more desire to try and get to the next level. Money was I'm sure a big reasoning as to why but still. In my opinion outside of the NWO angle he never did better in WCW than he did in WWF/E. Kevin Nash seemed to overshadow him basically making Hall the Janetty of the team. Just my opinion.

That's fair WCW's contracts were a major problem with the company, WWE's downside deals still remain a big reason people join them, you get a large promised sum regardless, but if you exceed expectations and you will make a shit load more, even in trying to incentivise people, how WCW did it was stupid, it was just an incentive to appear/wrestle, but not to get over, also some of those deals were so odd, like Flair's downside was lower than Booker T, Scot Steiners, DDP, Konnan ect, he made more I think because of his nightly bonuses and stuff but still, they were all on like $700k a year while he was on $500k, Flair's nightly bonuses however for the year usually amounted to equal of his downside however.

Also the contracts cost weren't what fucked WCW, everything else is what fucked em, advertising for shows after the event took place, huge paydays for celebs who didn't draw a dime, not getting PPV revenue, so many other factors fucked them up in that regard.