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Post by amyghost on Jun 27, 2019 21:39:06 GMT
Again, to what point if they're never made, and no one sees them? I'm not sure what you're arguing exactly. You said you doubt there are any original ideas, even unmade ones, in Hollywood; I cited a place where you can find some. I wish more of them were made instead of rehashes too, but I dont think it's for lack of ideas. It's a business issue. I never said there were no 'unmade' original ideas in Hollywood. I said that, even if there are, it's to no point if they're not produced. Few people will ever be aware of them, certainly the majority of the viewing public will not. It may be a business decision (in fact I'd have no doubt it is), but I suspect it's going to prove bad business as box office returns continue, on the whole, to fall.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jun 27, 2019 21:47:44 GMT
I'm not sure what you're arguing exactly. You said you doubt there are any original ideas, even unmade ones, in Hollywood; I cited a place where you can find some. I wish more of them were made instead of rehashes too, but I dont think it's for lack of ideas. It's a business issue. I never said there were no 'unmade' original ideas in Hollywood. I said that, even if there are, it's to no point if they're not produced. Few people will ever be aware of them, certainly the majority of the viewing public will not. It may be a business decision (in fact I'd have no doubt it is), but I suspect it's going to prove bad business as box office returns continue, on the whole, to fall. You said, with regard to original ideas: "Makes me tend to doubt their existence" This is generally a pointless argument since we seem to essentially agree and this is stuff pretty much every knows... but.. I would say the reason it's going this way is that it's been good business. It's more cost effective to work from rights that are already owned by the studio than it is development a new idea, and that also generates new revenue for the preowned property. People will pay to rewatch The Craft when the remake comes around. And there are also lots of new ideas being made, but just generally not for theaters. The streaming companies seem to be able to take those risks a bit more since box office returns really aren't where their profit comes from. Aaaaannnyway... I don't think we're really saying different things here so maybe this is just a semantics debate here, but arguments aside, the annual Black List is a pretty interesting document to take a look at.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Oct 25, 2023 12:56:24 GMT
Not a remake, it's a sequel. See it and you'll learn why. I put this off for quite awhile, but was unexpectedly surprised how good it was. Sure, it follows the lead closely of the original, but it's enjoyable. Seems like kids have only gotten more cruel since the 90's. The ending sets it up for even more sequels, which we may or may not ever see. David Duchovny lends it a lot of class.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 25, 2023 13:44:56 GMT
Not a remake, it's a sequel. See it and you'll learn why. I put this off for quite awhile, but was unexpectedly surprised how good it was. Sure, it follows the lead closely of the original, but it's enjoyable. Seems like kids have only gotten more cruel since the 90's. The ending sets it up for even more sequels, which we may or may not ever see. David Duchovny lends it a lot of class. Gotta say, I'm surprised by your feelings here. I haven't seen it since it was new, but I thought it was terrible. It looked cheap, the cast wasn't really any good, David Duchovny gave what I'd say is his worst performance of anything I've seen, there's an effect with him at the end that's laughably awful, it replays beats from the original but plays every one of them in a more hollow and poor way (like all of these 'requels' and 'legacy-quels'), and it bizarrely is more or less exactly the same movie as that crummy Black Christmas 'remake' from a few years ago. I'm certainly not one to get involved in that terrible online discourse when people complain about things being 'woke' and other people call those people Nazis or whatever happens on Twitter. I stay away from that shit. But this is what people are taking about when they bitch about things like that. It's such a pale and shallow approach to have the threat to these girls be a chauvinistic 'men's rights' speaker who runs this self help group that secretly wants to destroy and enslave all women. It's sooooo lame, and this whole premise and the entire climax is DIRECTLY out of that terrible Black Christmas remake (the most recent one... both remakes are terrible). That paired with some of the dialogue and plot moments like the girls casting a spell on a chauvinistic guy to make him be a feminist and swooning when he talks about consent and female issues is so dumb and shallow. These ideas as thematic elements are fine if handled well, but they're handled with zero subtlety or elegance, or basic writing competence. It's the equivalent of someone lecturing people in one of those twitter threads I so purposely avoid. And like the 2019 Black Christmas is has no command over its tone. You can get away with hammering these points with absurd heavy handedness if you don't intend to be taken fully seriously. If it's fun you can do that because it won't feel like a lecture and it will seem like while you believe in your themes you don't take your approach to them too seriously, and therefore the lack of subtlety is forgivable. But this one plays it starkly seriously (that's actually the biggest difference between this and the 2019 Black Christmas because they try to play some moments for the fun, over-the-top, exploitation but only in brief moments and its too little too late). Another thing, to me, that this movie just gets wrong that the original got right, is just the basic premise of pitting this group of girls against a group of men, just as a general idea. The first movie had these friends discover this power that they had, grow closer as friends as a result, them splinter and turn against each other when that power overwhelmed them. That was interesting, and more empowering to the female characters and their femininity. They held all the cards. All the good and the bad was within their group. They were the heroes and the villains. This one, instead, just threw in an underdeveloped outside bad GUY, which couldn't be less compelling, and actually saps power away from the lead characters. It's also just not well made. It looks like just another cheap, thrown together, blumhouse movie that was designed to play for two weeks in theaters and then go straight to streaming. And that's what it is, and there's a place for those movies, but as much as the original is really kind of just OK, The Craft still deserves to be treated better than that. I still think there's a truly good movie to be made from this idea, but I don't think it's been done yet. And this was just a case of diminishing returns and what could have been a step up.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Oct 26, 2023 13:34:38 GMT
Not a remake, it's a sequel. See it and you'll learn why. I put this off for quite awhile, but was unexpectedly surprised how good it was. Sure, it follows the lead closely of the original, but it's enjoyable. Seems like kids have only gotten more cruel since the 90's. The ending sets it up for even more sequels, which we may or may not ever see. David Duchovny lends it a lot of class. Gotta say, I'm surprised by your feelings here. I haven't seen it since it was new, but I thought it was terrible. It looked cheap, the cast wasn't really any good, David Duchovny gave what I'd say is his worst performance of anything I've seen, there's an effect with him at the end that's laughably awful, it replays beats from the original but plays every one of them in a more hollow and poor way (like all of these 'requels' and 'legacy-quels'), and it bizarrely is more or less exactly the same movie as that crummy Black Christmas 'remake' from a few years ago. I'm certainly not one to get involved in that terrible online discourse when people complain about things being 'woke' and other people call those people Nazis or whatever happens on Twitter. I stay away from that shit. But this is what people are taking about when they bitch about things like that. It's such a pale and shallow approach to have the threat to these girls be a chauvinistic 'men's rights' speaker who runs this self help group that secretly wants to destroy and enslave all women. It's sooooo lame, and this whole premise and the entire climax is DIRECTLY out of that terrible Black Christmas remake (the most recent one... both remakes are terrible). That paired with some of the dialogue and plot moments like the girls casting a spell on a chauvinistic guy to make him be a feminist and swooning when he talks about consent and female issues is so dumb and shallow. These ideas as thematic elements are fine if handled well, but they're handled with zero subtlety or elegance, or basic writing competence. It's the equivalent of someone lecturing people in one of those twitter threads I so purposely avoid. And like the 2019 Black Christmas is has no command over its tone. You can get away with hammering these points with absurd heavy handedness if you don't intend to be taken fully seriously. If it's fun you can do that because it won't feel like a lecture and it will seem like while you believe in your themes you don't take your approach to them too seriously, and therefore the lack of subtlety is forgivable. But this one plays it starkly seriously (that's actually the biggest difference between this and the 2019 Black Christmas because they try to play some moments for the fun, over-the-top, exploitation but only in brief moments and its too little too late). Another thing, to me, that this movie just gets wrong that the original got right, is just the basic premise of pitting this group of girls against a group of men, just as a general idea. The first movie had these friends discover this power that they had, grow closer as friends as a result, them splinter and turn against each other when that power overwhelmed them. That was interesting, and more empowering to the female characters and their femininity. They held all the cards. All the good and the bad was within their group. They were the heroes and the villains. This one, instead, just threw in an underdeveloped outside bad GUY, which couldn't be less compelling, and actually saps power away from the lead characters. It's also just not well made. It looks like just another cheap, thrown together, blumhouse movie that was designed to play for two weeks in theaters and then go straight to streaming. And that's what it is, and there's a place for those movies, but as much as the original is really kind of just OK, The Craft still deserves to be treated better than that. I still think there's a truly good movie to be made from this idea, but I don't think it's been done yet. And this was just a case of diminishing returns and what could have been a step up. So what are you saying...you didn't like it? I didn't give it all that much thought. I guess I was a little impressed that it had much more depth, supposedly, than I thought it would. But you had some good points that I hadn't considered.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 26, 2023 13:43:24 GMT
Gotta say, I'm surprised by your feelings here. I haven't seen it since it was new, but I thought it was terrible. It looked cheap, the cast wasn't really any good, David Duchovny gave what I'd say is his worst performance of anything I've seen, there's an effect with him at the end that's laughably awful, it replays beats from the original but plays every one of them in a more hollow and poor way (like all of these 'requels' and 'legacy-quels'), and it bizarrely is more or less exactly the same movie as that crummy Black Christmas 'remake' from a few years ago. I'm certainly not one to get involved in that terrible online discourse when people complain about things being 'woke' and other people call those people Nazis or whatever happens on Twitter. I stay away from that shit. But this is what people are taking about when they bitch about things like that. It's such a pale and shallow approach to have the threat to these girls be a chauvinistic 'men's rights' speaker who runs this self help group that secretly wants to destroy and enslave all women. It's sooooo lame, and this whole premise and the entire climax is DIRECTLY out of that terrible Black Christmas remake (the most recent one... both remakes are terrible). That paired with some of the dialogue and plot moments like the girls casting a spell on a chauvinistic guy to make him be a feminist and swooning when he talks about consent and female issues is so dumb and shallow. These ideas as thematic elements are fine if handled well, but they're handled with zero subtlety or elegance, or basic writing competence. It's the equivalent of someone lecturing people in one of those twitter threads I so purposely avoid. And like the 2019 Black Christmas is has no command over its tone. You can get away with hammering these points with absurd heavy handedness if you don't intend to be taken fully seriously. If it's fun you can do that because it won't feel like a lecture and it will seem like while you believe in your themes you don't take your approach to them too seriously, and therefore the lack of subtlety is forgivable. But this one plays it starkly seriously (that's actually the biggest difference between this and the 2019 Black Christmas because they try to play some moments for the fun, over-the-top, exploitation but only in brief moments and its too little too late). Another thing, to me, that this movie just gets wrong that the original got right, is just the basic premise of pitting this group of girls against a group of men, just as a general idea. The first movie had these friends discover this power that they had, grow closer as friends as a result, them splinter and turn against each other when that power overwhelmed them. That was interesting, and more empowering to the female characters and their femininity. They held all the cards. All the good and the bad was within their group. They were the heroes and the villains. This one, instead, just threw in an underdeveloped outside bad GUY, which couldn't be less compelling, and actually saps power away from the lead characters. It's also just not well made. It looks like just another cheap, thrown together, blumhouse movie that was designed to play for two weeks in theaters and then go straight to streaming. And that's what it is, and there's a place for those movies, but as much as the original is really kind of just OK, The Craft still deserves to be treated better than that. I still think there's a truly good movie to be made from this idea, but I don't think it's been done yet. And this was just a case of diminishing returns and what could have been a step up. So what are you saying...you didn't like it? I didn't give it all that much thought. I guess I was a little impressed that it had much more depth, supposedly, than I thought it would. But you had some good points that I hadn't considered. Ha, yes, that was a long winded way to say I didn't care for it. I was surprised I wrote as much as I did. I really wouldn't have expected to have remembered it that well. So I guess I do have to give it some credit for being more memorable than I initially thought... so there's that! Not a compliment really, but... something.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Oct 26, 2023 13:54:11 GMT
So what are you saying...you didn't like it? I didn't give it all that much thought. I guess I was a little impressed that it had much more depth, supposedly, than I thought it would. But you had some good points that I hadn't considered. Ha, yes, that was a long winded way to say I didn't care for it. I was surprised I wrote as much as I did. I really wouldn't have expected to have remembered it that well. So I guess I do have to give it some credit for being more memorable than I initially thought... so there's that! Not a compliment really, but... something. If horror is even a little bit interesting or semi-original people are impressed, mainly because there's so much dreck out there. I'm guilty of watching dreck, thereby supporting the fact that doing so only encourages them to continue to make even more dreck. It's the curse of being a horror fan, we'll watch anything. Oh, we'll complain about it too, but we all still get sucked in by thinking, "Oh another sequel, maybe this one won't suck?"
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 26, 2023 16:25:48 GMT
Ha, yes, that was a long winded way to say I didn't care for it. I was surprised I wrote as much as I did. I really wouldn't have expected to have remembered it that well. So I guess I do have to give it some credit for being more memorable than I initially thought... so there's that! Not a compliment really, but... something. If horror is even a little bit interesting or semi-original people are impressed, mainly because there's so much dreck out there. I'm guilty of watching dreck, thereby supporting the fact that doing so only encourages them to continue to make even more dreck. It's the curse of being a horror fan, we'll watch anything. Oh, we'll complain about it too, but we all still get sucked in by thinking, "Oh another sequel, maybe this one won't suck?" Quite true. I'd read and heard the reviews before I saw this movie and I went ahead and watched it anyway in the hopes that I might get something out of it that others didn't. No such luck in this case, but I'll always keep watching.
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