|
|
Post by geode on Apr 2, 2019 10:36:26 GMT
Did Pope Francis deny the existence of hell? link |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
FOR YOU:
Apr 2, 2019 12:18:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 12:18:36 GMT
Can anyone point me to scripture in the New Testament that expounds on the new covenant? "For anyone who is in Christ, there is a new creation; the old creation has gone, and now the new one is here. It is all God’s work." It is quite plain to me anyway 🤷 Jesus tells us he has come to fulfill prophecy himself, and in doing so brings us the new covenant, the old one is over, finished... The two most important parts of the New covenant are love God, love your neighbour. Do those two things and you are close to God. I'm a follower of Christ, the new creation. The old creation is dead. I think the reason that a lot of people who profess to be Christians are obsessed more with the old testament than with Christ, is because they don't actually like Christ's new covenant of love and compassion... It doesn't suit their personal desire of wishing to judge, and be bigoted. They proclaim Christ as Lord whilst denying his new covenant. |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 2, 2019 13:31:18 GMT
Ned Kelly doesn't believe in Hell, and claims 'modern' centrists Catholics shouldn't either! To be fair to myself, I don't claim anyone should or shouldn't believe one thing or another... I merely state how I understand my own faith. It's entirely up to everyone what they do or don't believe, how they interpret their own faith or not. And to clarify, I don't believe in hell as the Medieval concept. I believe hell is when a person has fallen so far from grace, that reaching resurrection through purgatory is impossible, and it results in complete separation from God. That is what I believe regarding Hell too. That it is the complete & eternal banishment from the Presence Of God.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 2, 2019 21:16:49 GMT
To be fair to myself, I don't claim anyone should or shouldn't believe one thing or another... I merely state how I understand my own faith. It's entirely up to everyone what they do or don't believe, how they interpret their own faith or not. And to clarify, I don't believe in hell as the Medieval concept. I believe hell is when a person has fallen so far from grace, that reaching resurrection through purgatory is impossible, and it results in complete separation from God. That is what I believe regarding Hell too. That it is the complete & eternal banishment from the Presence Of God. Sounds good to me! ..then atheists have absolutely nothing to fear, then do they?
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 2, 2019 22:04:11 GMT
That is what I believe regarding Hell too. That it is the complete & eternal banishment from the Presence Of God. What are your thoughts on Luke 16:19-31? The Rich Man and Lazarus 19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ 27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” My thoughts that Hell is agony.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 2, 2019 22:13:16 GMT
What are your thoughts on Luke 16:19-31? The Rich Man and Lazarus 19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ 27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” My thoughts that Hell is agony. Why would you, or anyone else, let alone a loving God/Jesus wish that on ANYBODY? You see this is the thing I don't 'get' about this religion thing....it is SO hypocritical.
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 2, 2019 22:23:42 GMT
My thoughts that Hell is agony. Why would you, or anyone else, let alone a loving God/Jesus wish that on ANYBODY? You see this is the thing I don't 'get' about this religion thing....it is SO hypocritical. God Doesn't Force people to be with Him.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 2, 2019 22:27:35 GMT
Why would you, or anyone else, let alone a loving God/Jesus wish that on ANYBODY? You see this is the thing I don't 'get' about this religion thing....it is SO hypocritical. God Doesn't Force people to be with Him. Why have eternal agony for those who don't want to?
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 2, 2019 22:37:15 GMT
My thoughts that Hell is agony. I thought you were agreeing with Ned Kelly that Hell was not eternal torment in fire. My mistake. I was agreeing with Ned Kelly. He said that Hell is the eternal banishment from God. That will be torture!!
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 2, 2019 22:38:02 GMT
God Doesn't Force people to be with Him. Why have eternal agony for those who don't want to? Because being out of His Presence, will be pure agony!!
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 2, 2019 22:48:42 GMT
I was agreeing with Ned Kelly. He said that Hell is the eternal banishment from God. That will be torture!! Ned rejects what he calls the medieval threat of hell fire. Do you believe in the lake of fire? I neither believe, nor disbelieve in it. I believe that the tortures of Hell is the Eternal Banishment From the Presence Of God. There are at least 2 instances in the Holy Bible, one in the Old Testament, & the other in the New Testament, where God Appears, in the Form Of Fire. Therefore, if God Is Fire in Heaven, then the souls in Heaven are not tormented by Being in His Presence, whereas if there is fire in Hell, the souls there are in torment, because they have been banished from God.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 3, 2019 0:06:44 GMT
Why have eternal agony for those who don't want to? Because being out of His Presence, will be pure agony!! What kind of agony? As an atheist, I do alright!
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 3, 2019 3:35:22 GMT
Because being out of His Presence, will be pure agony!! What kind of agony? As an atheist, I do alright! Just because you are an atheist, doesn't mean that you are outside of His Presence.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 3, 2019 20:32:05 GMT
What kind of agony? As an atheist, I do alright! Just because you are an atheist, doesn't mean that you are outside of His Presence. Ya think? I thought atheists automatically went to Hell?
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 3, 2019 20:46:13 GMT
Just because you are an atheist, doesn't mean that you are outside of His Presence. Ya think? I thought atheists automatically went to Hell? I never said that.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 3, 2019 21:56:02 GMT
Ya think? I thought atheists automatically went to Hell? I never said that. Well do they, or do they not?
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 3, 2019 23:28:54 GMT
Well do they, or do they not? Like everyone else, I believe it depends upon the kind of life they have led. Same with Christians. Being Christian doesn't mean one is automatically going to Heaven. There is only one particular religion which a person may choose to belong to, that I believe will go to Hell (unless they repent of, in time). Atheism is not it.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 3, 2019 23:38:46 GMT
Well do they, or do they not? Like everyone else, I believe it depends upon the kind of life they have led. Same with Christians. Being Christian doesn't mean one is automatically going to Heaven. There is only one particular religion which a person may choose to belong to, that I believe will go to Hell (unless they repent of, in time). Atheism is not it. Aside from the fact that atheism is NOT a religion, just an absence of it, this is awesome, though just why anyone would go through all that pesky prayer, church going, genuflecting and listening to old men drone on for hours, be embarrassed by their paedophilic exploits and generally be in the power of a corrupt institution, is beyond my understanding. I am just a regular secular humanist caring for other people animals and the natural world without all the showy offy trappings of religion. It is good to know that YOUR God, in your terms won't penalise me for trying to be a decent person. It is BTW such a great shame that your missionaries haven't read the programme and they stop telling natives of other religions that they are doomed to Hell if they don't convert!
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Apr 3, 2019 23:52:02 GMT
Like everyone else, I believe it depends upon the kind of life they have led. Same with Christians. Being Christian doesn't mean one is automatically going to Heaven. There is only one particular religion which a person may choose to belong to, that I believe will go to Hell (unless they repent of, in time). Atheism is not it. Aside from the fact that atheism is NOT a religion, just an absence of it, this is awesome, though just why anyone would go through all that pesky prayer, church going, genuflecting and listening to old men drone on for hours, be embarrassed by their paedophilic exploits and generally be in the power of a corrupt institution, is beyond my understanding. I am just a regular secular humanist caring for other people animals and the natural world without all the showy offy trappings of religion. It is good to know that YOUR God, in your terms won't penalise me for trying to be a decent person. It is BTW such a great shame that your missionaries haven't read the programme and they stop telling natives of other religions that they are doomed to Hell if they don't convert! Why do we go through all that " prayer, church going, genuflecting, and listening to old men drone on for hours,..." Because we Christians DO believe in God, and want to maintain our relationship with Him. Ditto for people from other religious traditions in the world. In fact, following one's religion faithfully in this life, is like being with Our God in this life, as well as the next. As for "be embarrassed by their paedophilic exploits and generally power of a corrupt institution," you do realize that practically every single institution has had their share of paedophiles & other kinds of sex offenders, don't you? Case in point, are schools. We all agree that it is for the children's own benefit & growth, that they be sent to school to be educated, yet, there have been plenty of cases of kids being sexually abused by teachers, in school.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on Apr 4, 2019 0:03:52 GMT
Aside from the fact that atheism is NOT a religion, just an absence of it, this is awesome, though just why anyone would go through all that pesky prayer, church going, genuflecting and listening to old men drone on for hours, be embarrassed by their paedophilic exploits and generally be in the power of a corrupt institution, is beyond my understanding. I am just a regular secular humanist caring for other people animals and the natural world without all the showy offy trappings of religion. It is good to know that YOUR God, in your terms won't penalise me for trying to be a decent person. It is BTW such a great shame that your missionaries haven't read the programme and they stop telling natives of other religions that they are doomed to Hell if they don't convert! Why do we go through all that " prayer, church going, genuflecting, and listening to old men drone on for hours,..." Because we Christians DO believe in God, and want to maintain our relationship with Him. Ditto for people from other religious traditions in the world. In fact, following one's religion faithfully in this life, is like being with Our God in this life, as well as the next. As for "be embarrassed by their paedophilic exploits and generally power of a corrupt institution," you do realize that practically every single institution has had their share of paedophiles & other kinds of sex offenders, don't you? Case in point, are schools. We all agree that it is for the children's own benefit & growth, that they be sent to school to be educated, yet, there have been plenty of cases of kids being sexually abused by teachers, in school. Look, that is great. You can just say... I like it and it has meaning for me. The problem is when there is an assumption that others who see things differently, are wrong. This, in a nutshell, is the problem with religion.
|
|
