|
|
Post by Aj_June on Apr 7, 2019 7:34:06 GMT
What future do you folks think is in store for her?
Of course, Leo believes that Sansa is going to sit on the Iron Throne but what do other community members think?
IMO, it's hard to visualize her fate given the fact that she hasn't got any romantic pairing. Of course, she doesn't need any romantic pairing to survive or even to ascend the throne but alliances usually help. Okay, so my main question is what do you think will be her fate by the end of the show? I will give my own opinion in a later post.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
 
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 8:22:53 GMT
What future do you folks think is in store for her?
Of course, Leo believes that Sansa is going to sit on the Iron Throne but what do other community members think?
IMO, it's hard to visualize her fate given the fact that she hasn't got any romantic pairing. Of course, she doesn't need any romantic pairing to survive or even to ascend the throne but alliances usually help. Okay, so my main question is what do you think will be her fate by the end of the show? I will give my own opinion in a later post.
Ironic is it not that the person who married twice and had marriages arranged to three others (Joffrey, Loras and Robin Arryn) and was proposed to by another (Littlefinger) currently has no romantic pairing?
I wonder if she'll end up the historical parallel of Elizabeth Tudor, living a long life as foreseen by Tyrion in season two, but never really marrying again? She certainly has a sister who earned the epithet 'Bloody' as Mary Tudor did!
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 7, 2019 8:38:33 GMT
What future do you folks think is in store for her?
Of course, Leo believes that Sansa is going to sit on the Iron Throne but what do other community members think?
IMO, it's hard to visualize her fate given the fact that she hasn't got any romantic pairing. Of course, she doesn't need any romantic pairing to survive or even to ascend the throne but alliances usually help. Okay, so my main question is what do you think will be her fate by the end of the show? I will give my own opinion in a later post.
Ironic is it not that the person who married twice and had marriages arranged to three others (Joffrey, Loras and Robin Arryn) and was proposed to by another (Littlefinger) currently has no romantic pairing?
I wonder if she'll end up the historical parallel of Elizabeth Tudor, living a long life as foreseen by Tyrion in season two, but never really marrying again? She certainly has a sister who earned the epithet 'Bloody' as Mary Tudor did! In this late phase of the story, Cersei is the parallel to Mary Tudor. First truly Queen Regnant (Mathilda and Jane didn't work), involved in a religious conflict she crushed and disliked by historians, Mary married the heir to Spain (the one with a big navy) and believed she was pregnant until nothing happened. She died of natural causes, some believing uterine cancer would explain both the phantom pregnancy and weakening, finally naming her former "rival" Elizabeth as her heir. I believe Cersei will live and Sansa will sit on a 2nd throne made of dragon scales in the final scene of the series.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 9:12:24 GMT
Ironic is it not that the person who married twice and had marriages arranged to three others (Joffrey, Loras and Robin Arryn) and was proposed to by another (Littlefinger) currently has no romantic pairing?
I wonder if she'll end up the historical parallel of Elizabeth Tudor, living a long life as foreseen by Tyrion in season two, but never really marrying again? She certainly has a sister who earned the epithet 'Bloody' as Mary Tudor did! In this late phase of the story, Cersei is the parallel to Mary Tudor. First truly Queen Regnant (Mathilda and Jane didn't work), involved in a religious conflict she crushed and disliked by historians, Mary married the heir to Spain (the one with a big navy) and believed she was pregnant until nothing happened. She died of natural causes, some believing uterine cancer would explain both the phantom pregnancy and weakening, finally naming her former "rival" Elizabeth as her heir. I believe Cersei will live and Sansa will sit on a 2nd throne made of dragon scales in the final scene of the series. That's not a bad analogy in some respects, it would certainly fit on the level regarding their dealings with upstart religious reformers!
Actually I wasn't expecting Sansa to be Queen of Westeros, the North maybe if it stays independent, but the Starks have no legitimate claim on any other crown. Then again neither does Cersei, so who knows what they'll do.
|
|
|
|
Post by hi224 on Apr 7, 2019 9:20:52 GMT
i hope she lives, her, davos, and tyrion at least as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 7, 2019 9:40:20 GMT
In this late phase of the story, Cersei is the parallel to Mary Tudor. First truly Queen Regnant (Mathilda and Jane didn't work), involved in a religious conflict she crushed and disliked by historians, Mary married the heir to Spain (the one with a big navy) and believed she was pregnant until nothing happened. She died of natural causes, some believing uterine cancer would explain both the phantom pregnancy and weakening, finally naming her former "rival" Elizabeth as her heir. I believe Cersei will live and Sansa will sit on a 2nd throne made of dragon scales in the final scene of the series. That's not a bad analogy in some respects, it would certainly fit on the level regarding their dealings with upstart religious religious reformers!
Actually I wasn't expecting Sansa to be Queen of Westeros, the North maybe if it stays independent, but the Starks have no legitimate claim on any other crown. Then again neither does Cersei, so who knows what they'll do. Cersei is absolutely legitimate, more than anyone else in the story. She took power when no one else was there to claim it with any sort of right. Power is legitimate when it regulates, illegitimate when it causes strife. That made Joffrey legitimate too. This is the reason why descendants of the Hohenzollern or Bourbons have no legitimacy to rule Germany or France. Now, we might also see Sansa rule the North instead but that supposes there would be a North to rule. I fully expect the Fool in the North to continue fucking things up until there is nothing left living in it. At least we're getting rid of the stupid wolves.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 17:24:20 GMT
That's not a bad analogy in some respects, it would certainly fit on the level regarding their dealings with upstart religious religious reformers!
Actually I wasn't expecting Sansa to be Queen of Westeros, the North maybe if it stays independent, but the Starks have no legitimate claim on any other crown. Then again neither does Cersei, so who knows what they'll do. Cersei is absolutely legitimate, more than anyone else in the story. She took power when no one else was there to claim it with any sort of right. Power is legitimate when it regulates, illegitimate when it causes strife. That made Joffrey legitimate too. This is the reason why descendants of the Hohenzollern or Bourbons have no legitimacy to rule Germany or France. Now, we might also see Sansa rule the North instead but that supposes there would be a North to rule. I fully expect the Fool in the North to continue fucking things up until there is nothing left living in it. At least we're getting rid of the stupid wolves. Cersei usurped her son's rule, and is ultimately responsible for pretty much all the strife in the KD since Robert Baratheon died with an assist from her. She holds the throne by right of conquest only, with maybe one or two KDs recognizing her outside the Crownlands. She has as much right to legitimate power as Karl von Habsburg would if he seized Vienna with mercenaries.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Apr 7, 2019 17:49:56 GMT
What future do you folks think is in store for her?
Of course, Leo believes that Sansa is going to sit on the Iron Throne but what do other community members think?
IMO, it's hard to visualize her fate given the fact that she hasn't got any romantic pairing. Of course, she doesn't need any romantic pairing to survive or even to ascend the throne but alliances usually help. Okay, so my main question is what do you think will be her fate by the end of the show? I will give my own opinion in a later post.
Ironic is it not that the person who married twice and had marriages arranged to three others (Joffrey, Loras and Robin Arryn) and was proposed to by another (Littlefinger) currently has no romantic pairing?
I wonder if she'll end up the historical parallel of Elizabeth Tudor, living a long life as foreseen by Tyrion in season two, but never really marrying again? She certainly has a sister who earned the epithet 'Bloody' as Mary Tudor did!
It's interesting how bleak her life went on to become as time progressed. And how different were her hardships from the hardships of Arya. Arya had to face poverty and live on road and catch birds to eat and get to eat the hard way. Sansa didn't face that sort of destitution but she had her own very dispiriting events in life. The hopes of being the queen faded, she was married to a dwarf (no disrespect intended for dwarfs), had to face sexual violence and there simply wasn't anyone to console her. Even when she returned to her own home, she had to be like a stranger. Her view of life became less and less hopeful as she matured. I can sure see Sansa living a long life and probably as the ruler of north. But I fail to see any joy return to her even after the war ends. Dickon was a prospect for her among the characters that were depicted on the show. But among those who have been part of the show, I see no match for her.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 18:09:58 GMT
Ironic is it not that the person who married twice and had marriages arranged to three others (Joffrey, Loras and Robin Arryn) and was proposed to by another (Littlefinger) currently has no romantic pairing?
I wonder if she'll end up the historical parallel of Elizabeth Tudor, living a long life as foreseen by Tyrion in season two, but never really marrying again? She certainly has a sister who earned the epithet 'Bloody' as Mary Tudor did!
It's interesting how bleak her life went on to become as time progressed. And how different were her hardships from the hardships of Arya. Arya had to face poverty and live on road and catch birds to eat and get to eat the hard way. Sansa didn't face that sort of destitution but she had her own very dispiriting events in life. The hopes of being the queen faded, she was married to a dwarf (no disrespect intended for dwarfs), had to face sexual violence and there simply wasn't anyone to console her. Even when she returned to her own home, she had to be like a stranger. Her view of life became less and less hopeful as she matured. I can sure see Sansa living a long life and probably as the ruler of north. But I fail to see any joy return to her even after the war ends. Dickon was a prospect for her among the characters that were depicted on the show. But among those who have been part of the show, I see no match for her. Gendry is a possibility, and Robin Arryn is still alive, though from what we've seen of him I wouldn't wish him on anyone. It's also possible she'll decide resuming her marriage to Tyrion isn't all that bad a fate. Tyrion was undesirable for her not just because of his stature but because he was a drunken lecher, something she made clear from the beginning she despised and was still attracted to Joffrey even after she knew he had flaws as whatever his myriad faults they didn't include those. Tyrion seems to have given up the women--I don't think he's lain with anyone since he married her--so if he's moderated his drinking somewhat perhaps she'll see him in a new light.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 7, 2019 18:14:04 GMT
Cersei is absolutely legitimate, more than anyone else in the story. She took power when no one else was there to claim it with any sort of right. Power is legitimate when it regulates, illegitimate when it causes strife. That made Joffrey legitimate too. This is the reason why descendants of the Hohenzollern or Bourbons have no legitimacy to rule Germany or France. Now, we might also see Sansa rule the North instead but that supposes there would be a North to rule. I fully expect the Fool in the North to continue fucking things up until there is nothing left living in it. At least we're getting rid of the stupid wolves. Cersei usurped her son's rule, and is ultimately responsible for pretty much all the strife in the KD since Robert Baratheon died with an assist from her. She holds the throne by right of conquest only, with maybe one or two KDs recognizing her outside the Crownlands. She has as much right to legitimate power as Karl von Habsburg would if he seized Vienna with mercenaries. You're talking complete crap now. Sorry,not worth replying to.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 7, 2019 18:25:12 GMT
It's interesting how bleak her life went on to become as time progressed. And how different were her hardships from the hardships of Arya. Arya had to face poverty and live on road and catch birds to eat and get to eat the hard way. Sansa didn't face that sort of destitution but she had her own very dispiriting events in life. The hopes of being the queen faded, she was married to a dwarf (no disrespect intended for dwarfs), had to face sexual violence and there simply wasn't anyone to console her. Even when she returned to her own home, she had to be like a stranger. Her view of life became less and less hopeful as she matured. I can sure see Sansa living a long life and probably as the ruler of north. But I fail to see any joy return to her even after the war ends. Dickon was a prospect for her among the characters that were depicted on the show. But among those who have been part of the show, I see no match for her. Gendry is a possibility, and Robin Arryn is still alive, though from what we've seen of him I wouldn't wish him on anyone. It's also possible she'll decide resuming her marriage to Tyrion isn't all that bad a fate. Tyrion was undesirable for her not just because of his stature but because he was a drunken lecher, something she made clear from the beginning she despised and was still attracted to Joffrey even after she knew he had flaws as whatever his myriad faults they didn't include those. Tyrion seems to have given up the women--I don't think he's lain with anyone since he married her--so if he's moderated his drinking somewhat perhaps she'll see him in a new light. I'm pretty sure the story is aiming at the extinction of all great houses. No one is getting married or having heirs.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 18:55:59 GMT
Cersei usurped her son's rule, and is ultimately responsible for pretty much all the strife in the KD since Robert Baratheon died with an assist from her. She holds the throne by right of conquest only, with maybe one or two KDs recognizing her outside the Crownlands. She has as much right to legitimate power as Karl von Habsburg would if he seized Vienna with mercenaries. You're talking complete crap now. Sorry,not worth replying to. It's still true, you need to move past the denial stage.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 8, 2019 7:37:03 GMT
You're talking complete crap now. Sorry,not worth replying to. It's still true, you need to move past the denial stage. It is neither true or false, legitimacy is a choice. You speak like a young idealist who wants to believe in absolute rules. Rules are made and unmade by people. That's why you're feeding the luxury life of some parliament members somewhere to keep amending them or make up new ones that will secure their position. Time to grow up.
|
|
Seto
Sophomore
@seto
Posts: 316
Likes: 234
|
Post by Seto on Apr 8, 2019 8:14:48 GMT
D&D have always been at a loss with Sansa's character, which is why they gave her Jeyne Poole's book plot in season five. After that, she jumped from one contrived plot to another. Summoning the Vale forces without anyone in the North realising? Not telling Jon she had the Vale forces because... reasons. Tension between Jon and then Arya for an obvious misdirect, then killing off Littlefinger, because D&D had enough of him.
So they seem to be trying to show Sansa as a strong, clever leader, who is fiercely loyal to her family. (In their crappy kinda way).
Where will that lead?? I think she'll just kinda be there at the end, maybe Lady of Winterfell. I doubt she'll die.
|
|
|
|
Post by DSDSquared on Apr 8, 2019 12:37:13 GMT
She will live. I am positive of it. She will turn out to be Lady of Winterfell by the end.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 8, 2019 17:57:48 GMT
It's still true, you need to move past the denial stage. It is neither true or false, legitimacy is a choice. You speak like a young idealist who wants to believe in absolute rules. Rules are made and unmade by people. That's why you're feeding the luxury life of some parliament members somewhere to keep amending them or make up new ones that will secure their position. Time to grow up. The legitimacy I was talking about can (eventually) be imposed by Right of Conquest, which how Cersei's claim would be described, she has the ability to defend it but no other established precedent. If she succeeds then a new form of legitimacy may indeed be conferred, but the process of doing so is likely to be strife-filled much like Dany's experience in Mereen.
My use of those terms was descriptive, not pejorative and whether or not I like the rules I am aware they exist and of their importance to other people, which this world is filled with. That's the position of a realist.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Apr 8, 2019 18:51:42 GMT
It's interesting how bleak her life went on to become as time progressed. And how different were her hardships from the hardships of Arya. Arya had to face poverty and live on road and catch birds to eat and get to eat the hard way. Sansa didn't face that sort of destitution but she had her own very dispiriting events in life. The hopes of being the queen faded, she was married to a dwarf (no disrespect intended for dwarfs), had to face sexual violence and there simply wasn't anyone to console her. Even when she returned to her own home, she had to be like a stranger. Her view of life became less and less hopeful as she matured. I can sure see Sansa living a long life and probably as the ruler of north. But I fail to see any joy return to her even after the war ends. Dickon was a prospect for her among the characters that were depicted on the show. But among those who have been part of the show, I see no match for her. Gendry is a possibility, and Robin Arryn is still alive, though from what we've seen of him I wouldn't wish him on anyone. It's also possible she'll decide resuming her marriage to Tyrion isn't all that bad a fate. Tyrion was undesirable for her not just because of his stature but because he was a drunken lecher, something she made clear from the beginning she despised and was still attracted to Joffrey even after she knew he had flaws as whatever his myriad faults they didn't include those. Tyrion seems to have given up the women--I don't think he's lain with anyone since he married her--so if he's moderated his drinking somewhat perhaps she'll see him in a new light. I do not disagree that according to the culture of old times, what you say maybe a possibility. That is Sansa accepting a relationship just for the sake of the fact that it may work for her family and people. Alliance with another great House's scion may not be unbelievable. Assuming Cersei and Jaime die, Tyrion will likely be the head of House Lannister.
That said, relationship with sweet Robin may be a distant possibility because the show will probably not think that as a good move. In the times of GOT even that may have worked easily. As for Gendry, random GOT fans have tried to pair him with Arya, even though he said he was not good enough to be in her company. Think his personality is a bit different than Sansa's although I can't dismiss the possibility.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 8, 2019 19:26:42 GMT
Gendry is a possibility, and Robin Arryn is still alive, though from what we've seen of him I wouldn't wish him on anyone. It's also possible she'll decide resuming her marriage to Tyrion isn't all that bad a fate. Tyrion was undesirable for her not just because of his stature but because he was a drunken lecher, something she made clear from the beginning she despised and was still attracted to Joffrey even after she knew he had flaws as whatever his myriad faults they didn't include those. Tyrion seems to have given up the women--I don't think he's lain with anyone since he married her--so if he's moderated his drinking somewhat perhaps she'll see him in a new light. I do not disagree that according to the culture of old times, what you say maybe a possibility. That is Sansa accepting a relationship just for the sake of the fact that it may work for her family and people. Alliance with another great House's scion may not be unbelievable. Assuming Cersei and Jaime die, Tyrion will likely be the head of House Lannister.
That said, relationship with sweet Robin may be a distant possibility because the show will probably not think that as a good move. In the times of GOT even that may have worked easily. As for Gendry, random GOT fans have tried to pair him with Arya, even though he said he was not good enough to be in her company. Think his personality is a bit different than Sansa's although I can't dismiss the possibility.
I don't know what they have planned for 'Sweet Robin' either, outside his last appearance he was somewhat less repulsive than previously as he seemed to have forgiven Sansa for slapping him and was more interested in his new falcon than throwing Yohn Royce through the Moon Door which he was talked out of rather easily. In the books he came across much more sympathetically and Sansa seemed a little fond of him so perhaps like Hotpie he'll have improved like fine wine does with aging.
When Gendry saw Arya last he was unaware he was the son of Robert Baratheon and hadn't participated in The Great War like he has begun to and may well continue to by the end of the story. As for Sansa it would be an ironic twist that she eventually did marry the handsome son of a king as she was expected to in the beginning, just a wholly different one, someone 'brave and gentle and strong.' Not everyone looks for a mate similar to themselves but find most attractive the qualities they don't see in themselves; they're looking for a complement not an echo.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 9, 2019 5:56:33 GMT
It is neither true or false, legitimacy is a choice. You speak like a young idealist who wants to believe in absolute rules. Rules are made and unmade by people. That's why you're feeding the luxury life of some parliament members somewhere to keep amending them or make up new ones that will secure their position. Time to grow up. The legitimacy I was talking about can (eventually) be imposed by Right of Conquest, which how Cersei's claim would be described, she has the ability to defend it but no other established precedent. If she succeeds then a new form of legitimacy may indeed be conferred, but the process of doing so is likely to be strife-filled much like Dany's experience in Mereen.
My use of those terms was descriptive, not pejorative and whether or not I like the rules I am aware they exist and of their importance to other people, which this world is filled with. That's the position of a realist.
Check out Right of Conquest, you seem not to know what that is. Tired of debating things with ignorants who jump to their own conclusions.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Apr 9, 2019 6:38:51 GMT
The legitimacy I was talking about can (eventually) be imposed by Right of Conquest, which how Cersei's claim would be described, she has the ability to defend it but no other established precedent. If she succeeds then a new form of legitimacy may indeed be conferred, but the process of doing so is likely to be strife-filled much like Dany's experience in Mereen.
My use of those terms was descriptive, not pejorative and whether or not I like the rules I am aware they exist and of their importance to other people, which this world is filled with. That's the position of a realist.
Check out Right of Conquest, you seem not to know what that is. Tired of debating things with ignorants who jump to their own conclusions. Yes I do and I understand that brief link better, and I know how it applies in Game of Thrones terms because Tywin said so. Next time you read the books, pay special attention to the conversation between Tywin and Cersei when the latter wonders aloud by what right Balon claimed to be a King. Tywin explains it's Right of Conquest, when you've no other right but the willingness and ability to defend it. There's no precedent for the wife of a former King to ascend to the throne in Westeros so Cersei is claiming it solely on the basis she will fight anyone who defies her. It's a legal concept, other claims are based upon inheritance by blood, ratifications by parliamentary bodies, treaties both foreign and domestic etc. When you've got none of that but a military and the willingness to break heads it's called Right of Conquest.
|
|
