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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 9, 2019 22:12:19 GMT
By this point, it’s already been established that Zack Snyder had a five movie plan laid out for this franchise, which would’ve consisted of Mos, BvS, JL, JL2, and (possibly) JL3. We also know that Darkseid was intended to be the major villain of this five movie arc. In terms of release dates, JL2 was supposed to be released in June 2019. While there’s no way of knowing when the fifth movie of the Snyderverse was supposed to be released, I’m gonna go ahead and assume that they probably would’ve been eying a release somewhere in 2021.
Anyway, the thing that’s really unfortunate about this entire situation is that even if Snyder’s plans ended up being realized, the MCU would’ve already been long since finished with its big story arc involving Thanos. This would’ve meant that not only would’ve there have been all kinds of inevitable comparisons between Thanos and Darkseid, but no matter how ambitious Snyder’s plans might’ve been, DC wouldn’t have been the first ones to finish a major story arc in a shared universe, so the impact never would’ve been the same.
People have argued in the past that DC supposedly didn’t have a clear plan with their shared universe, but that’s obviously not correct. They did have a plan. The problem is that even ignoring Snyder’s own divisiveness as a filmmaker, DC weren’t the first ones to do a shared live action superhero universe (unless you count that old Supergirl movie, which you shouldn’t). Marvel had already beaten them to it, so DC never would’ve had the same kind of impact. Frankly, that’s why I think it’s for the best that DC and WB are no longer concerned about measuring up to Marvel, and are more or less doing their own thing by focusing solely on individual movies.
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 9, 2019 22:52:51 GMT
DC weren’t the first ones to do a shared live action superhero universe (unless you count that old Supergirl movie, which you shouldn’t). That does count. MCU fans may not like it because it destroys their belief that MCU is innovative and leads the way but the fact is DC was indeed the first ones to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe. Saying that DC wasn't the first to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe is as incorrect and as stupid as saying that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions. The Packers won the first Super Bowl, but there were NFL Championship Games before the Super Bowl existed. Likewise, DC already had a shared live action superhero cinematic universe a quarter century before MCU existed.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 9, 2019 23:21:54 GMT
True. But I would have forgiven them for the similarities if everything didn't seem rushed and sloppy. They had nothing but time initially but now it seems they're running out of it. It could have been interesting if after Darkseid, they move onto bigger crazier storylines like the Crime Syndicate of America or fighting intergalactic foes such as the Anti-Monitor and Imperiex.
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Post by sostie on Apr 9, 2019 23:46:14 GMT
DC weren’t the first ones to do a shared live action superhero universe (unless you count that old Supergirl movie, which you shouldn’t). That does count. MCU fans may not like it because it destroys their belief that MCU is innovative and leads the way but the fact is DC was indeed the first ones to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe. Yes, we should all remember that the Salkinds (not DC) gave us the Jimmy Olsen Universe. Except according to Wiki, and any other listing of shared universes, it isn't.
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
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Post by havenless on Apr 10, 2019 2:38:26 GMT
DC weren’t the first ones to do a shared live action superhero universe (unless you count that old Supergirl movie, which you shouldn’t). That does count. MCU fans may not like it because it destroys their belief that MCU is innovative and leads the way but the fact is DC was indeed the first ones to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe. Saying that DC wasn't the first to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe is as incorrect and as stupid as saying that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions. The Packers won the first Super Bowl, but there were NFL Championship Games before the Super Bowl existed. Likewise, DC already had a shared live action superhero cinematic universe a quarter century before MCU existed. No, I don’t agree with the Packers analogy. The Super Bowl is a larger accomplishment than a previous NFL championship specifically because the NFL and AFL were separate. It quite literally is more comparable to winning an NFC championship today, as that is exactly what that game evolved into. It’s a fair assessment to say they didn’t have the opportunity to play the AFL for a Super Bowl-Esque accomplishment, but you can’t reward someone for something they never did. You can still use semantics and say it was still technically called an NFL championship, but Green Bay in 1966 was the first undisputed champion of professional teams l, and that’s a significant difference between the Super Bowl and pre-merger championships. Particularly because the AFL in the 1950’s had arguably the best football team(s) in the world. Not disputing your Supergirl opinion at all, just pointing out the NFL championship thing. |
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Post by merh on Apr 10, 2019 13:43:57 GMT
DC weren’t the first ones to do a shared live action superhero universe (unless you count that old Supergirl movie, which you shouldn’t). That does count. MCU fans may not like it because it destroys their belief that MCU is innovative and leads the way but the fact is DC was indeed the first ones to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe. Saying that DC wasn't the first to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe is as incorrect and as stupid as saying that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions. The Packers won the first Super Bowl, but there were NFL Championship Games before the Super Bowl existed. Likewise, DC already had a shared live action superhero cinematic universe a quarter century before MCU existed. It wasn't a shared universe. It was a franchise. 6 Million Dollar man was successful so they made Bionic Woman. Supernan was successful so they made Supergirl. Were it a shared universe we would have seen a separate hero such as Batman or Flash in it
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Apr 10, 2019 15:13:15 GMT
Supergirl was not a shared universe it was a sequel with a new protagonist. Just like "The Next Karate Kid" was a sequel and does not rise to the level of a shared universe.
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 10, 2019 15:37:35 GMT
That does count. MCU fans may not like it because it destroys their belief that MCU is innovative and leads the way but the fact is DC was indeed the first ones to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe. Saying that DC wasn't the first to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe is as incorrect and as stupid as saying that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions. The Packers won the first Super Bowl, but there were NFL Championship Games before the Super Bowl existed. Likewise, DC already had a shared live action superhero cinematic universe a quarter century before MCU existed.It wasn't a shared universe. It was a franchise. 6 Million Dollar man was successful so they made Bionic Woman. Supernan was successful so they made Supergirl. They're franchises and shared universes. A shared universe is made up of 2 or more franchises. The Six Million Dollar Man was a TV series. The Bionic Woman was another TV series, which took place in the same shared universe. Together, those 2 TV series were a shared universe. Shazam! was a TV series. Isis was another TV series, which took place in the same shared universe. Together, those 2 TV series were a shared universe. The Friday the 13th movies and the Nightmare on Elm Street movies are 2 different franchises which took place in the same shared universe. Together, they were a shared universe. Similarly, the Superman movies and Supergirl movie are 2 different franchises which took place in the same shared universe. Together they were a shared universe. Were it a shared universe we would have seen a separate hero such as Batman or Flash in it A shared universe only needs to share 1 or more characters. The Superman movies and Supergirl movie shared a character (played by the same actor) so they were a shared universe and officially the 1st shared cinematic universe of superhero movies. Like I said in my previous post, saying that DC wasn't the first to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe is as incorrect and as stupid as saying that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions. The Packers won the first Super Bowl, but there were NFL Championship Games before the Super Bowl existed. Likewise, DC already had a shared live action superhero cinematic universe a quarter century before MCU existed.
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 10, 2019 15:46:03 GMT
That does count. MCU fans may not like it because it destroys their belief that MCU is innovative and leads the way but the fact is DC was indeed the first ones to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe. Saying that DC wasn't the first to have a shared live action superhero cinematic universe is as incorrect and as stupid as saying that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions. The Packers won the first Super Bowl, but there were NFL Championship Games before the Super Bowl existed. Likewise, DC already had a shared live action superhero cinematic universe a quarter century before MCU existed.No, I don’t agree with the Packers analogy. The Super Bowl is a larger accomplishment than a previous NFL championship specifically because the NFL and AFL were separate. It quite literally is more comparable to winning an NFC championship today, as that is exactly what that game evolved into. It’s a fair assessment to say they didn’t have the opportunity to play the AFL for a Super Bowl-Esque accomplishment, but you can’t reward someone for something they never did. You can still use semantics and say it was still technically called an NFL championship, but Green Bay in 1966 was the first undisputed champion of professional teams l, and that’s a significant difference between the Super Bowl and pre-merger championships. Particularly because the AFL in the 1950’s had arguably the best football team(s) in the world. I'm not commenting on whether winning the NFL Championship Game in the pre-Super Bowl era was comparable to winning the Super Bowl. I'm commenting on the fact that there was a game called the "NFL Championship Game" in the pre-Super Bowl era and the winner of the "NFL Championship Game" in the pre-Super Bowl era was indeed recognized as the "NFL Champion". So it would be incorrect to say that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions because there were NFL Champions before the Packers won Super Bowl I, just like it would be incorrect to say that MCU was the first shared cinematic universe for superhero movies because DC already had a shared cinematic universe for superhero movies a quarter century before MCU existed.As for whether winning the NFL Championship Game in the pre-Super Bowl era was comparable to winning the Super Bowl, it's similar to winning the NBA Championship from 1967 to 1976, when the ABA existed. The winner of the NBA Finals from 1967 to 1976 was still recognized as the NBA Champion. But a case could be made (and this is a stronger case than the AFL vs NFL) that the ABA Champion was just as good or better than the NBA Champion because some of the best pro basketball players of that era (such as Dr. J, Moses Malone, Rick Barry, Artis Gilmore, George McGinnis, George Gervin, Maurice Lucas, David Thompson, and several others) were in the ABA.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Apr 10, 2019 18:15:35 GMT
By this point, it’s already been established that Zack Snyder had a five movie plan laid out for this franchise, which would’ve consisted of Mos, BvS, JL, JL2, and (possibly) JL3. We also know that Darkseid was intended to be the major villain of this five movie arc. In terms of release dates, JL2 was supposed to be released in June 2019. While there’s no way of knowing when the fifth movie of the Snyderverse was supposed to be released, I’m gonna go ahead and assume that they probably would’ve been eying a release somewhere in 2021. Anyway, the thing that’s really unfortunate about this entire situation is that even if Snyder’s plans ended up being realized, the MCU would’ve already been long since finished with its big story arc involving Thanos. This would’ve meant that not only would’ve there have been all kinds of inevitable comparisons between Thanos and Darkseid, but no matter how ambitious Snyder’s plans might’ve been, DC wouldn’t have been the first ones to finish a major story arc in a shared universe, so the impact never would’ve been the same. People have argued in the past that DC supposedly didn’t have a clear plan with their shared universe, but that’s obviously not correct. They did have a plan. The problem is that even ignoring Snyder’s own divisiveness as a filmmaker, DC weren’t the first ones to do a shared live action superhero universe (unless you count that old Supergirl movie, which you shouldn’t). Marvel had already beaten them to it, so DC never would’ve had the same kind of impact. Frankly, that’s why I think it’s for the best that DC and WB are no longer concerned about measuring up to Marvel, and are more or less doing their own thing by focusing solely on individual movies. ^^^THIS^^^
But, now that Snyder is out of the picture, and they seem to be on an up swing doing things a bit differently, I don't see why they couldn't course correct and build up to another Justice League movie again. I wouldn't even think of it as a sequel or a reboot, rather just another adventure involving these characters.
As for Batman and Superman... just fucking re-cast and move along.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 10, 2019 18:45:48 GMT
By this point, it’s already been established that Zack Snyder had a five movie plan laid out for this franchise, which would’ve consisted of Mos, BvS, JL, JL2, and (possibly) JL3. We also know that Darkseid was intended to be the major villain of this five movie arc. In terms of release dates, JL2 was supposed to be released in June 2019. While there’s no way of knowing when the fifth movie of the Snyderverse was supposed to be released, I’m gonna go ahead and assume that they probably would’ve been eying a release somewhere in 2021. Anyway, the thing that’s really unfortunate about this entire situation is that even if Snyder’s plans ended up being realized, the MCU would’ve already been long since finished with its big story arc involving Thanos. This would’ve meant that not only would’ve there have been all kinds of inevitable comparisons between Thanos and Darkseid, but no matter how ambitious Snyder’s plans might’ve been, DC wouldn’t have been the first ones to finish a major story arc in a shared universe, so the impact never would’ve been the same. People have argued in the past that DC supposedly didn’t have a clear plan with their shared universe, but that’s obviously not correct. They did have a plan. The problem is that even ignoring Snyder’s own divisiveness as a filmmaker, DC weren’t the first ones to do a shared live action superhero universe (unless you count that old Supergirl movie, which you shouldn’t). Marvel had already beaten them to it, so DC never would’ve had the same kind of impact. Frankly, that’s why I think it’s for the best that DC and WB are no longer concerned about measuring up to Marvel, and are more or less doing their own thing by focusing solely on individual movies. ^^^THIS^^^
But, now that Snyder is out of the picture, and they seem to be on an up swing doing things a bit differently, I don't see why they couldn't course correct and build up to another Justice League movie again. I wouldn't even think of it as a sequel or a reboot, rather just another adventure involving these characters.
As for Batman and Superman... just fucking re-cast and move along.
Right? And what's going on with The Batman while we're at it? I thought we were gonna hear something about the new lead soon.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Apr 10, 2019 18:48:04 GMT
^^^THIS^^^
But, now that Snyder is out of the picture, and they seem to be on an up swing doing things a bit differently, I don't see why they couldn't course correct and build up to another Justice League movie again. I wouldn't even think of it as a sequel or a reboot, rather just another adventure involving these characters.
As for Batman and Superman... just fucking re-cast and move along.
Right? And what's going on with The Batman while we're at it? I thought we were gonna hear something about the new lead soon. With movies nowadays, especially DCEU, I don't believe anything 'till I SEE it!
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
Posts: 717
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Post by havenless on Apr 11, 2019 1:54:24 GMT
No, I don’t agree with the Packers analogy. The Super Bowl is a larger accomplishment than a previous NFL championship specifically because the NFL and AFL were separate. It quite literally is more comparable to winning an NFC championship today, as that is exactly what that game evolved into. It’s a fair assessment to say they didn’t have the opportunity to play the AFL for a Super Bowl-Esque accomplishment, but you can’t reward someone for something they never did. You can still use semantics and say it was still technically called an NFL championship, but Green Bay in 1966 was the first undisputed champion of professional teams l, and that’s a significant difference between the Super Bowl and pre-merger championships. Particularly because the AFL in the 1950’s had arguably the best football team(s) in the world. I'm not commenting on whether winning the NFL Championship Game in the pre-Super Bowl era was comparable to winning the Super Bowl. I'm commenting on the fact that there was a game called the "NFL Championship Game" in the pre-Super Bowl era and the winner of the "NFL Championship Game" in the pre-Super Bowl era was indeed recognized as the "NFL Champion". So it would be incorrect to say that the Green Bay Packers were the first NFL Champions because there were NFL Champions before the Packers won Super Bowl I, just like it would be incorrect to say that MCU was the first shared cinematic universe for superhero movies because DC already had a shared cinematic universe for superhero movies a quarter century before MCU existed.As for whether winning the NFL Championship Game in the pre-Super Bowl era was comparable to winning the Super Bowl, it's similar to winning the NBA Championship from 1967 to 1976, when the ABA existed. The winner of the NBA Finals from 1967 to 1976 was still recognized as the NBA Champion. But a case could be made (and this is a stronger case than the AFL vs NFL) that the ABA Champion was just as good or better than the NBA Champion because some of the best pro basketball players of that era (such as Dr. J, Moses Malone, Rick Barry, Artis Gilmore, George McGinnis, George Gervin, Maurice Lucas, David Thompson, and several others) were in the ABA. So you’re arguing the technicality of semantics versus what the other person may have been actually implying. Attacking the post and not the conversation behind it. |
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Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 11, 2019 2:32:40 GMT
See, this is my issue: why hire Snyder to be the creator and overlord of your universe and then cut the line halfway through? I get that BvS wasn’t just divisive among fans, but it also underperformed at the box office. I get that Marvel was winning big-time with their light, short movies. But Snyder had a vision for a multi-movie arc that he should have been able to finish.
To me, it also could have worked as a kind of bizarro-Marvel franchise in which visuals, action, tone, and storytelling are nearly completely opposite of what Feige and company are making. WB needed to commit, but instead they panicked after BvS. What a shame.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 11, 2019 2:46:44 GMT
See, this is my issue: why hire Snyder to be the creator and overlord of your universe and then cut the line halfway through? I get that BvS wasn’t just divisive among fans, but it also underperformed at the box office. I get that Marvel was winning big-time with their light, short movies. But Snyder had a vision for a multi-movie arc that he should have been able to finish. To me, it also could have worked as a kind of bizarro-Marvel franchise in which visuals, action, tone, and storytelling are nearly completely opposite of what Feige and company are making. WB needed to commit, but instead they panicked after BvS. What a shame. They always do. It kills me how twenty years later, after Batman Returns and Batman & Robin, they still haven't learned anything. I can only assume that Nolan is a real bear in negotiations cuz I'm left wondering how he got a third of his DK series finished.
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Post by merh on Apr 11, 2019 8:57:04 GMT
See, this is my issue: why hire Snyder to be the creator and overlord of your universe and then cut the line halfway through? I get that BvS wasn’t just divisive among fans, but it also underperformed at the box office. I get that Marvel was winning big-time with their light, short movies. Iron Man Runtime: 2 hrs. 6 min. Iron Man 2 Runtime: 2 hrs. 5 min. Captain America: The First Avenger Runtime: 2 hrs. 5 min. Iron Man 3 Runtime: 2 hrs. 9 min. Captain Marvel Runtime: 2 hrs. 8 min. The Dark Knight Runtime: 2 hrs. 30 min. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Runtime: 2 hrs. 31 min So 20 minutes matters? Sorry, I still prefer this one to all of Nolan's crap. Batman Runtime: 2 hrs. 6 min. And does that mean this one is a masterpiece because it's long? Avengers: Infinity War Runtime: 2 hrs. 36 min. My 6th grade teacher's guideline when asked how long a report should be was "like a woman's skirt: long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to be interesting." Light? Tony Stark is betrayed by a friend. Steve Rogers loses the man who has been pretty much a brother to him. Thor loses everything-his power, his father, only to learn it is a lie by the person he sees as his brother. He dies to save his friends (& is resurrected by his father) Peter lives with his mother dying from cancer, is abducted by aliens who threaten to eat him daily. "Light, short"
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Apr 11, 2019 14:50:44 GMT
If something isn't working you have to fix it. You can't keep doing the same thing that has already failed and expect success.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 11, 2019 15:29:41 GMT
See, this is my issue: why hire Snyder to be the creator and overlord of your universe and then cut the line halfway through? I get that BvS wasn’t just divisive among fans, but it also underperformed at the box office. I get that Marvel was winning big-time with their light, short movies. Iron Man Runtime: 2 hrs. 6 min. Iron Man 2 Runtime: 2 hrs. 5 min. Captain America: The First Avenger Runtime: 2 hrs. 5 min. Iron Man 3 Runtime: 2 hrs. 9 min. Captain Marvel Runtime: 2 hrs. 8 min. The Dark Knight Runtime: 2 hrs. 30 min. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Runtime: 2 hrs. 31 min So 20 minutes matters? Sorry, I still prefer this one to all of Nolan's crap. Batman Runtime: 2 hrs. 6 min. And does that mean this one is a masterpiece because it's long? Avengers: Infinity War Runtime: 2 hrs. 36 min. My 6th grade teacher's guideline when asked how long a report should be was "like a woman's skirt: long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to be interesting." Light? Tony Stark is betrayed by a friend. Steve Rogers loses the man who has been pretty much a brother to him. Thor loses everything-his power, his father, only to learn it is a lie by the person he sees as his brother. He dies to save his friends (& is resurrected by his father) Peter lives with his mother dying from cancer, is abducted by aliens who threaten to eat him daily. "Light, short" I never said just because it’s long it’s good. I said it would be the opposite of what Marvel was doing, which was the only way they were going to make something of their own. And 20 extra minutes of runtime is a long time. A two hour flat runtime is paced much differently than a two and half hour one. And if you can’t see the tonal differences between BvS and the average MCU movie, you’re blind. Again, I’m not saying one is better than the other. I’m saying they’re vastly different. |
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Post by merh on Apr 12, 2019 6:09:09 GMT
Iron Man Runtime: 2 hrs. 6 min. Iron Man 2 Runtime: 2 hrs. 5 min. Captain America: The First Avenger Runtime: 2 hrs. 5 min. Iron Man 3 Runtime: 2 hrs. 9 min. Captain Marvel Runtime: 2 hrs. 8 min. The Dark Knight Runtime: 2 hrs. 30 min. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Runtime: 2 hrs. 31 min So 20 minutes matters? Sorry, I still prefer this one to all of Nolan's crap. Batman Runtime: 2 hrs. 6 min. And does that mean this one is a masterpiece because it's long? Avengers: Infinity War Runtime: 2 hrs. 36 min. My 6th grade teacher's guideline when asked how long a report should be was "like a woman's skirt: long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to be interesting." Light? Tony Stark is betrayed by a friend. Steve Rogers loses the man who has been pretty much a brother to him. Thor loses everything-his power, his father, only to learn it is a lie by the person he sees as his brother. He dies to save his friends (& is resurrected by his father) Peter lives with his mother dying from cancer, is abducted by aliens who threaten to eat him daily. "Light, short" I never said just because it’s long it’s good. I said it would be the opposite of what Marvel was doing, which was the only way they were going to make something of their own. And 20 extra minutes of runtime is a long time. A two hour flat runtime is paced much differently than a two and half hour one. And if you can’t see the tonal differences between BvS and the average MCU movie, you’re blind. Again, I’m not saying one is better than the other. I’m saying they’re vastly different. Dude, I may consider myself a Thor & Cap fangirl, but my memories of reading Supergirl & Superboy are months later than the Marvel Super Heroes cartoon, meaning all were things I loved by the time I was 8 yrs old in 1968. Oh, hell yes, I see a difference in tone. MCU is fanboys sticking to the mythology. BvS was the world's greatest detective falling for a lie spun by a crazy dude. Why the HELL would he fall for it? whatculture.com/film/zack-snyder-proved-in-2008-that-he-didn-39-t-understand-comic-book-movie-fansSnyder wasn't a fan of superhero comics. www.cbr.com/zack-snyder-wrong-superman/He read Heavy Metal, not Superman as a kid. There is a world of difference between Vampirella & Wonder Woman. Superheroes are mythology. Hercules. Thor. Jason. Heavy Metal sells an entirely different story.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Apr 12, 2019 15:09:45 GMT
The most unfortunate thing about Zack Snyder’s plans is that any of them actually made it into theaters.
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