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Post by charzhino on May 6, 2019 22:34:32 GMT
Taken from my post in another thread, this suddenly hit me.
With Thanos in 2014 gaining pym particles, he now has access to time travel. Russos wrote stupidly that Thanos' plan should be to go into an unknown future to fight Avengers on "away turf" when they could possess any number of infinity gems themselves whilst he goes into war with NONE
But with unlimited pym particles and time GPS devices (both taken from captured 2019 Nebula and replicated) he can simply travel back in time to make an infinity gauntlet.
Thanos would have all the information at hand to know where the stones are when he captured 2019 Nebula:
Power gem - 2014 Thanos captures 2019 Nebula whilst she and Warmachin were planning to intercept the power gem from Quill. Knowing where the powergem has been all this time, Thanos can just has to go back in time a couple of days before Quill steals it to capture the orb.
Mind gem - He gave this to Loki in his sceptre back in 2012 Avengers. Can easily go back then and keep the mind gem himself.
Space gem/Tesseract - again, he knows its on earth in 2012 so can go back to 2012 to retrieve it, with the power and mind gem at hand, he can easily defeat any resistance
Soul gem - 2014 Thanos didnt know the soul stone was on Vormir. But now that he and Ebony Maw have access to 2019 Nebulas memory files, he can simply scan them and look for the moment 2019 Nebula explained its location to Hawkeye/Widow. Boom, theres another gem he can go into the past to retrieve.
Time gem - look at memory files until the location of the stone is revealed on earth
Power gem/Aether - Find the memory where Avengers planning to get the gems in Endgame. Thor reveals that he had to take Jane to Asgard with the aether inside. Thanos then has to basically copy Rockets plan, which he could do with 100x the ease
There we go, all 6 gems collected. A master strategist with patience (as Thanos has been depicted to be very patient in collecting gems over the MCU lifespan) pulls this off. No need for the contrived ending in Endgame where he ridiculously decides to travel into 2019 with his army to go up against the Avengers who already have the infinity gauntlet ready to use. Its a straight up suicide mission, no way Thanos with his intellect thinks this is a good idea.
The better plan would be to go into the past from his position in 2014; collect the gems with relative ease as Ive outlined and go back to 2014 with a fresh gauntlet and snap the whole universe out of existence. Then if hes in the mood, go forward to 2019 and do the same thing again.
Sorry, but Russos poor writing and handling of time travel has been exposed beyond redemption.
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Post by Skaathar on May 6, 2019 22:43:55 GMT
^ Where in the movie was it stated that he had unlimited Pym particles? I remember him having enough for only one trip.
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Post by charzhino on May 6, 2019 22:46:30 GMT
Lmao
Whats even a better plan is Thanos 2014 can just go back in time to keep asking his past selves to come with him into the future to help him get the infinity gaunlet. He can go back to 2012 and convince his older self of what's happening in the future. And can keep doing that
In 2014 he could have brought back 200 Thanos's! He doesnt need an army of minions now when he has 200+ OP Mad Titans runninh with him missions lmao
Sorry but the more you think about Russos writing time travel the more ludicrous plot holes and ridiculous scenarios
Ohdear
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Post by charzhino on May 6, 2019 22:49:25 GMT
^ Where in the movie was it stated that he had unlimited Pym particles? I remember him having enough for only one trip. As explained in another thread, to transport a massive army in a massive spaceship, you need multiple pym particles. Avengers needed 1 per person if i remember. Antman didnt want to waste pym particles on his trolley thing to escape the cage he woke up. I remember the scene where evil nebula gives 1 red liquid bottle to Thanos on the throne. No way can that 1 bottle transport a humongous army like Thanos has at the end. Only logical explanation is he replicated pyms formula to mass produce. |
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Post by Skaathar on May 6, 2019 23:12:09 GMT
^ Where in the movie was it stated that he had unlimited Pym particles? I remember him having enough for only one trip. As explained in another thread, to transport a massive army in a massive spaceship, you need multiple pym particles. Avengers needed 1 per person if i remember. Antman didnt want to waste pym particles on his trolley thing to escape the cage he woke up. I remember the scene where evil nebula gives 1 red liquid bottle to Thanos on the throne. No way can that 1 bottle transport a humongous army like Thanos has at the end. Only logical explanation is he replicated pyms formula to mass produce. Or they simply hooked up the pym particle to the ship and made the ship itself time travel, bringing all of them along with it. After all, the Avengers were able to grab stuff from the past and time travel with them, so it shows that not everything you bring with you needs its own pym particle to travel as long as you're carrying them when you do travel. In the same way, if the ship is the one that traveled then everything it was carrying inside it should time travel with it.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 6, 2019 23:17:22 GMT
Lmao Whats even a better plan is Thanos 2014 can just go back in time to keep asking his past selves to come with him into the future to help him get the infinity gaunlet. He can go back to 2012 and convince his older self of what's happening in the future. And can keep doing that In 2014 he could have brought back 200 Thanos's! He doesnt need an army of minions now when he has 200+ OP Mad Titans runninh with him missions lmao Sorry but the more you think about Russos writing time travel the more ludicrous plot holes and ridiculous scenarios Ohdear An army of Thanos would never trust or cooperate with its own ranks. Thanos consciously asserts that "the work" is what is most important but, in reality, this is a fallacy and, he knows it. Thanos is a classical megalomaniacal figure. What is important to him is that he become the ultimate source of truth in the universe. And an army of Thanos would call into question who is the "real" Thanos and, that is antithetical to his objective and true motivation. Every single time Thanos has encountered himself from another time frame in the source material, he has invariably killed and replaced his older selves. Recommended reading: David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself; Random House; 1973.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 6, 2019 23:25:46 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that entire army was inside the ship. You even see close up to like the undercarriage of the ship and see multiple Leviathans coming out from the hangars, so it's a fairly large ship and can carry an entire army.
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Post by politicidal on May 6, 2019 23:43:24 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that entire army was inside the ship. You even see close up to like the undercarriage of the ship and see multiple Leviathans coming out from the hangars, so it's a fairly large ship and can carry an entire army. Exactly. It seemed the same make and model as Snoke's flagship from The Last Jedi.
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Post by hobowar on May 7, 2019 0:57:51 GMT
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Post by merh on May 7, 2019 2:15:25 GMT
It seemed pretty plain that the Chitauri were not all that.
A throwaway army to allow Thanos to get the Tesseract
Cone on.
Its not that hard to watch the fricken movies.
Loki makes a comment about the army being l its cracked up to be & The Other says they are sufficient. At the end they seem upset Loki made the humans to be less than they turned out to be.
So why the Chitauri at the final battle?
Basically it felt like they were going for the battle of Wakanda only larger.
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Post by charzhino on May 7, 2019 8:12:21 GMT
As explained in another thread, to transport a massive army in a massive spaceship, you need multiple pym particles. Avengers needed 1 per person if i remember. Antman didnt want to waste pym particles on his trolley thing to escape the cage he woke up. I remember the scene where evil nebula gives 1 red liquid bottle to Thanos on the throne. No way can that 1 bottle transport a humongous army like Thanos has at the end. Only logical explanation is he replicated pyms formula to mass produce. Or they simply hooked up the pym particle to the ship and made the ship itself time travel, bringing all of them along with it. After all, the Avengers were able to grab stuff from the past and time travel with them, so it shows that not everything you bring with you needs its own pym particle to travel as long as you're carrying them when you do travel. In the same way, if the ship is the one that traveled then everything it was carrying inside it should time travel with it. When Nebula and Rhodey take the power gem and are planning to jump back to 2019, Nebulas computer systems go haywire which stops her going into the quantum realm. Rhodey manages to escape though. Nebula still has a full pym particle bottle on her which Thanos 2014 takes. Logical conclusion to that is it does take 1 pym particle bottle per person to go quanta, otherwise Rhodey would not be successful.
They specifically stated that everyone has 1 roundtrip each with the pym particles. 1 trip to the past, then 1 trip back to the present.Therefore its not feasible for Rhodey and Nebula to ''share'' 1 pym particle bottle (as you are suggesting Thanos 2014 and his army in the spaceship would do) because the last trip that Rhodey made back to 2019 would leave Nebula stranded, but as we know it doesnt because the pym particle bottle she holds can do another trip.
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Post by charzhino on May 7, 2019 8:13:52 GMT
Lmao Whats even a better plan is Thanos 2014 can just go back in time to keep asking his past selves to come with him into the future to help him get the infinity gaunlet. He can go back to 2012 and convince his older self of what's happening in the future. And can keep doing that In 2014 he could have brought back 200 Thanos's! He doesnt need an army of minions now when he has 200+ OP Mad Titans runninh with him missions lmao Sorry but the more you think about Russos writing time travel the more ludicrous plot holes and ridiculous scenarios Ohdear An army of Thanos would never trust or cooperate with its own ranks. Thanos consciously asserts that "the work" is what is most important but, in reality, this is a fallacy and, he knows it. Thanos is a classical megalomaniacal figure. What is important to him is that he become the ultimate source of truth in the universe. And an army of Thanos would call into question who is the "real" Thanos and, that is antithetical to his objective and true motivation. Every single time Thanos has encountered himself from another time frame in the source material, he has invariably killed and replaced his older selves. Recommended reading: David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself; Random House; 1973.
They probably would kill each other, but the principal of recruiting copies of powerful henchmenn is what I was contemplating.
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Post by charzhino on May 7, 2019 8:37:06 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that entire army was inside the ship. You even see close up to like the undercarriage of the ship and see multiple Leviathans coming out from the hangars, so it's a fairly large ship and can carry an entire army. Yes the army was in the ship. The question is whether 1 pym particle bottle that Thanos stole off Nebula would be enough to transport that many people, whther it be inside the ship or not.
When rhodey and nebula attempt to timetravel back to 2019 on Morag, nebula gets stranded and she holds 1 pym particle bottle which Thanos takes. Now theres 2 scenarios
1) Rhodey and Nebula were sharing 1 pym particle bottle to travel back to 2014 then forward to 2019 after collecting the orb.
2) Rhodey and Nebula have 1 pym particle bottle each
If number 1 scenario is correct, then we know that Thanos and his army could use 1 pym particle bottle to transport his entire army to 2019 as happens in the movie. If number 2 is correct, then Thanos would need 1 pym particle bottle per person to transport his army into 2019 - which he would need thousands.
I believe #2 is correct, everything weve been told points to it. Antman says the teams have enough for only 1 round trip. Rhodey completes the round trip. He must have been using his own pym particle bottle because Nebula gets blocked. Therefore 1 pym particle bottle needed for 1 person to time travel.
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Post by charzhino on May 7, 2019 8:52:52 GMT
Also more proof 1 pym particle bottle is needed per person:
Steve Rogers and Tony Stark go back to 1970s from 2012. They leave Antman in 2012 and order him and Hulk to take back the time stone back to 2019. Antman and Hulk must have their own pym particle bottles to travel to 2019. Steve and Tony must have their own pym particle bottles to travel back to 1970s.
Therefore, Thanos needs to replicate the pym forumla to manufacture a bottle for each of his army members which means he now has access to unlimited time travel
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Post by sostie on May 7, 2019 11:30:27 GMT
Taken from my post in another thread, this suddenly hit me. With Thanos in 2014 gaining pym particles, he now has access to time travel. Russos wrote stupidly that Thanos' plan should be to go into an unknown future to fight Avengers on "away turf" when they could possess any number of infinity gems themselves whilst he goes into war with NONE But with unlimited pym particles and time GPS devices (both taken from captured 2019 Nebula and replicated) he can simply travel back in time to make an infinity gauntlet. Thanos would have all the information at hand to know where the stones are when he captured 2019 Nebula:Power gem - 2014 Thanos captures 2019 Nebula whilst she and Warmachin were planning to intercept the power gem from Quill. Knowing where the powergem has been all this time, Thanos can just has to go back in time a couple of days before Quill steals it to capture the orb. Mind gem - He gave this to Loki in his sceptre back in 2012 Avengers. Can easily go back then and keep the mind gem himself. Space gem/Tesseract - again, he knows its on earth in 2012 so can go back to 2012 to retrieve it, with the power and mind gem at hand, he can easily defeat any resistance Soul gem - 2014 Thanos didnt know the soul stone was on Vormir. But now that he and Ebony Maw have access to 2019 Nebulas memory files, he can simply scan them and look for the moment 2019 Nebula explained its location to Hawkeye/Widow. Boom, theres another gem he can go into the past to retrieve. Time gem - look at memory files until the location of the stone is revealed on earth Power gem/Aether - Find the memory where Avengers planning to get the gems in Endgame. Thor reveals that he had to take Jane to Asgard with the aether inside. Thanos then has to basically copy Rockets plan, which he could do with 100x the ease There we go, all 6 gems collected. A master strategist with patience (as Thanos has been depicted to be very patient in collecting gems over the MCU lifespan) pulls this off. No need for the contrived ending in Endgame where he ridiculously decides to travel into 2019 with his army to go up against the Avengers who already have the infinity gauntlet ready to use. Its a straight up suicide mission, no way Thanos with his intellect thinks this is a good idea. The better plan would be to go into the past from his position in 2014; collect the gems with relative ease as Ive outlined and go back to 2014 with a fresh gauntlet and snap the whole universe out of existence. Then if hes in the mood, go forward to 2019 and do the same thing again. Sorry, but Russos poor writing and handling of time travel has been exposed beyond redemption. But isn't it established that going in the past does not effect the future in the timeline you are in. Thanos' future has already happened....he saw it through Nebula...he achieved his goal of the "snap"...whatever he does the future he sees will happen. His only option is to go forward in time to prevent his "snap" from being undone.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 7, 2019 11:50:54 GMT
"The bad guy could've won if he had done this instead." The same can be said for literally every movie ever made.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 7, 2019 12:08:03 GMT
Taken from my post in another thread, this suddenly hit me. With Thanos in 2014 gaining pym particles, he now has access to time travel. Russos wrote stupidly that Thanos' plan should be to go into an unknown future to fight Avengers on "away turf" when they could possess any number of infinity gems themselves whilst he goes into war with NONE But with unlimited pym particles and time GPS devices (both taken from captured 2019 Nebula and replicated) he can simply travel back in time to make an infinity gauntlet. Thanos would have all the information at hand to know where the stones are when he captured 2019 Nebula:Power gem - 2014 Thanos captures 2019 Nebula whilst she and Warmachin were planning to intercept the power gem from Quill. Knowing where the powergem has been all this time, Thanos can just has to go back in time a couple of days before Quill steals it to capture the orb. Mind gem - He gave this to Loki in his sceptre back in 2012 Avengers. Can easily go back then and keep the mind gem himself. Space gem/Tesseract - again, he knows its on earth in 2012 so can go back to 2012 to retrieve it, with the power and mind gem at hand, he can easily defeat any resistance Soul gem - 2014 Thanos didnt know the soul stone was on Vormir. But now that he and Ebony Maw have access to 2019 Nebulas memory files, he can simply scan them and look for the moment 2019 Nebula explained its location to Hawkeye/Widow. Boom, theres another gem he can go into the past to retrieve. Time gem - look at memory files until the location of the stone is revealed on earth Power gem/Aether - Find the memory where Avengers planning to get the gems in Endgame. Thor reveals that he had to take Jane to Asgard with the aether inside. Thanos then has to basically copy Rockets plan, which he could do with 100x the ease There we go, all 6 gems collected. A master strategist with patience (as Thanos has been depicted to be very patient in collecting gems over the MCU lifespan) pulls this off. No need for the contrived ending in Endgame where he ridiculously decides to travel into 2019 with his army to go up against the Avengers who already have the infinity gauntlet ready to use. Its a straight up suicide mission, no way Thanos with his intellect thinks this is a good idea. The better plan would be to go into the past from his position in 2014; collect the gems with relative ease as Ive outlined and go back to 2014 with a fresh gauntlet and snap the whole universe out of existence. Then if hes in the mood, go forward to 2019 and do the same thing again. Sorry, but Russos poor writing and handling of time travel has been exposed beyond redemption. He has no reason to suspect they have a gauntlet ready to use, only that they're looking for the stones, as he is/was. He's beaten the Avengers once already, why wouldn't he think he'll do it again? As he said, "I am inevitable." Besides being overly contrived, your version of events makes a 13 hour mini-series, not a feature film. Congratulations on the fan fiction nonetheless. I wonder why you aren't in Hollywood instead of your parents' basement.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 7, 2019 18:26:18 GMT
As explained in another thread, to transport a massive army in a massive spaceship, you need multiple pym particles. Avengers needed 1 per person if i remember. Antman didnt want to waste pym particles on his trolley thing to escape the cage he woke up. I remember the scene where evil nebula gives 1 red liquid bottle to Thanos on the throne. No way can that 1 bottle transport a humongous army like Thanos has at the end. Only logical explanation is he replicated pyms formula to mass produce. Or they simply hooked up the pym particle to the ship and made the ship itself time travel, bringing all of them along with it. After all, the Avengers were able to grab stuff from the past and time travel with them, so it shows that not everything you bring with you needs its own pym particle to travel as long as you're carrying them when you do travel. In the same way, if the ship is the one that traveled then everything it was carrying inside it should time travel with it. They're not carrying the ship. They're inside the ship. If all it took was for the ship to time travel and carry everyone inside, then an entire building could time travel and carry everyone inside the building. But that doesn't happen because the building doesn't use Pym particles and the ship doesn't use Pym particles. Each person needs their own Pym particle so Thanos had to replicate Pym particles for everyone on the ship.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 7, 2019 18:31:58 GMT
Or they simply hooked up the pym particle to the ship and made the ship itself time travel, bringing all of them along with it. After all, the Avengers were able to grab stuff from the past and time travel with them, so it shows that not everything you bring with you needs its own pym particle to travel as long as you're carrying them when you do travel. In the same way, if the ship is the one that traveled then everything it was carrying inside it should time travel with it. They're not carrying the ship. They're inside the ship. If all it took was for the ship to time travel and carry everyone inside, then an entire building could time travel and carry everyone inside the building. But that doesn't happen because the building doesn't use Pym particles and the ship doesn't use Pym particles. Each person needs their own Pym particle so Thanos had to replicate Pym particles for everyone on the ship. The Russos have already confirmed Thanos made his own Pym particles.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 7, 2019 18:34:37 GMT
They're not carrying the ship. They're inside the ship. If all it took was for the ship to time travel and carry everyone inside, then an entire building could time travel and carry everyone inside the building. But that doesn't happen because the building doesn't use Pym particles and the ship doesn't use Pym particles. Each person needs their own Pym particle so Thanos had to replicate Pym particles for everyone on the ship. The Russos have already confirmed Thanos made his own Pym particles. So everything the OP said is valid and the Russos have confirmed that the Endgame final battle was really contrived and lazy writing.
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