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Post by kuatorises on May 7, 2019 19:46:02 GMT
a weird guy bordering on being a dick?
Movie Cap is definitely a strange bird, at least imo. I'm not even sure why he remains a soldier after being reanimated. He was all about America, stopping Hitler/the Red Skull, but after that he questions everything the Avengers do.
He gets upset SHIELD was building weapons from HYDRA tech. This is a man who actually saw Hitler/Hydra borderline succeed and knows you have to deal with threats. Then Asgard brings its problems to Earth in Thor 1 and he still objects? I mean, there's kind of a case for it and that's not. Then everyone blames Tony for Ultron (completely ignoring Banner's involvement), yet conveniently forgets this it's time to sign the Accords.Tony and Bruce themselves admit I'll try was a mistake and Tony is totally willing to accept responsibility for that and make sure that there are rules and laws. But again, Cap is like "No". He's not even Capt. America particularly long.
I don't think he's a bad guy (at all), but he's very strange and it's like once he's in the present he stopped caring about protecting people "Want to tell me about your wife?", Falcon asks. He says no, lol. What a dick. Like, why? He's very contrarian and aloof. He almost never smiles and disobeys authority all the time; based on his gut. It's like outside of his first movie, and maybe the first Avengers, he shows zero interest in being Captain America. Not a bad guy, but very stubborn and kinda out there.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 20:01:14 GMT
Captain America is awesome! Stop trolling!
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Post by Skaathar on May 7, 2019 20:51:20 GMT
Nah, all your questions are easily answered if you watch the movies.
Cap spent his entire military career fighting Hydra and their advanced weaponry. Of course he's going to be upset when he finds out his current employers are secretly continuing Hydra's research into weapons. He only found out about Thor's visit to earth after he found out about the weapons, which means he was already upset, and it didn't help that Loki's scepter was egging them on.
Their problem with Tony was not that he made Ultron but that he had made it without telling them. That Tony said he was simply going to study Loki's scepter but then tried to make an AI robot out of it without even consulting the team. The loss of trust was the problem.
As for Cap's stance on the Accords, well. Do you remember the last few times the Avengers trusted some type of government agency to assist them? First the world council tried to nuke NY, then SHIELD/Hydra tried to mass murder millions of people. Do you really blame Cap that he's not willing to trust another government agency to manage them? Especially when Ross made it sound like they were simple weapons to be used however that body decides to?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on May 7, 2019 22:21:00 GMT
Nah, Cap a sweet boy!
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 7, 2019 23:42:25 GMT
Nah, all your questions are easily answered if you watch the movies. Cap spent his entire military career fighting Hydra and their advanced weaponry. Of course he's going to be upset when he finds out his current employers are secretly continuing Hydra's research into weapons. He only found out about Thor's visit to earth after he found out about the weapons, which means he was already upset, and it didn't help that Loki's scepter was egging them on. Their problem with Tony was not that he made Ultron but that he had made it without telling them. That Tony said he was simply going to study Loki's scepter but then tried to make an AI robot out of it without even consulting the team. The loss of trust was the problem. As for Cap's stance on the Accords, well. Do you remember the last few times the Avengers trusted some type of government agency to assist them? First the world council tried to nuke NY, then SHIELD/Hydra tried to mass murder millions of people. Do you really blame Cap that he's not willing to trust another government agency to manage them? Especially when Ross made it sound like they were simple weapons to be used however that body decides to? 
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 7, 2019 23:43:38 GMT
a weird guy bordering on being a dick?
Movie Cap is definitely a strange bird, at least imo. I'm not even sure why he remains a soldier after being reanimated. He was all about America, stopping Hitler/the Red Skull, but after that he questions everything the Avengers do.
He gets upset SHIELD was building weapons from HYDRA tech. This is a man who actually saw Hitler/Hydra borderline succeed and knows you have to deal with threats. Then Asgard brings its problems to Earth in Thor 1 and he still objects? I mean, there's kind of a case for it and that's not. Then everyone blames Tony for Ultron (completely ignoring Banner's involvement), yet conveniently forgets this it's time to sign the Accords.Tony and Bruce themselves admit I'll try was a mistake and Tony is totally willing to accept responsibility for that and make sure that there are rules and laws. But again, Cap is like "No". He's not even Capt. America particularly long.
I don't think he's a bad guy (at all), but he's very strange and it's like once he's in the present he stopped caring about protecting people "Want to tell me about your wife?", Falcon asks. He says no, lol. What a dick. Like, why? He's very contrarian and aloof. He almost never smiles and disobeys authority all the time; based on his gut. It's like outside of his first movie, and maybe the first Avengers, he shows zero interest in being Captain America. Not a bad guy, but very stubborn and kinda out there.
You must be a conservative. He's clearly a liberal. That's why you don't understand.
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Post by kuatorises on May 8, 2019 12:40:25 GMT
a weird guy bordering on being a dick?
Movie Cap is definitely a strange bird, at least imo. I'm not even sure why he remains a soldier after being reanimated. He was all about America, stopping Hitler/the Red Skull, but after that he questions everything the Avengers do.
He gets upset SHIELD was building weapons from HYDRA tech. This is a man who actually saw Hitler/Hydra borderline succeed and knows you have to deal with threats. Then Asgard brings its problems to Earth in Thor 1 and he still objects? I mean, there's kind of a case for it and that's not. Then everyone blames Tony for Ultron (completely ignoring Banner's involvement), yet conveniently forgets this it's time to sign the Accords.Tony and Bruce themselves admit I'll try was a mistake and Tony is totally willing to accept responsibility for that and make sure that there are rules and laws. But again, Cap is like "No". He's not even Capt. America particularly long.
I don't think he's a bad guy (at all), but he's very strange and it's like once he's in the present he stopped caring about protecting people "Want to tell me about your wife?", Falcon asks. He says no, lol. What a dick. Like, why? He's very contrarian and aloof. He almost never smiles and disobeys authority all the time; based on his gut. It's like outside of his first movie, and maybe the first Avengers, he shows zero interest in being Captain America. Not a bad guy, but very stubborn and kinda out there.
You must be a conservative. He's clearly a liberal. That's why you don't understand. You say that like it's a curse word. Pretty dirtbag move of you. I voted for Hilary btw. Obama too. Twice.
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Post by kuatorises on May 8, 2019 13:44:43 GMT
Nah, all your questions are easily answered if you watch the movies. Cap spent his entire military career fighting Hydra and their advanced weaponry. Of course he's going to be upset when he finds out his current employers are secretly continuing Hydra's research into weapons. He only found out about Thor's visit to earth after he found out about the weapons, which means he was already upset, and it didn't help that Loki's scepter was egging them on. Their problem with Tony was not that he made Ultron but that he had made it without telling them. That Tony said he was simply going to study Loki's scepter but then tried to make an AI robot out of it without even consulting the team. The loss of trust was the problem. As for Cap's stance on the Accords, well. Do you remember the last few times the Avengers trusted some type of government agency to assist them? First the world council tried to nuke NY, then SHIELD/Hydra tried to mass murder millions of people. Do you really blame Cap that he's not willing to trust another government agency to manage them? Especially when Ross made it sound like they were simple weapons to be used however that body decides to?There were giant flying whales smashing into buildings in the middle of NY. GIANT FUCKING SPACE WHALES. This is AFTER a mythological god (Loki) breaks into the most secure facility in the US and steals the most powerful weapon/artifact humanity has ever seen (the tesseract) and took it with ease. Then, his brother shows up and simply takes him away from our custody (again with ease) after he murdered close to 100 people. We're not talking about a lone wolf with a homemade bomb strapped to his chest or even a very small, but organized, group running around killing civis. There is nothing in real life that can cause this level of destruction. This is the biggest threat humanity has ever seen. EVER. I am really fighting with myself here and holding back from what I really want to say, but dismissing the level of threat that exists here is beyond short-sighted. Your flippant dismissal of just how serious this is (or would be in the real world) is 100% unwarranted. Something major needs to be done to combat and prevent situations like this and the people handling it need to be governed, held responsible, etc. just like every other citizen in our country. So what if they tried to use our biggest weapon (nukes) against the biggest threat humanity ever faced? I'm not even saying it was a "good" call, but certainly a very common and tactically correct response. HYDRA is a terrorist organization. They are not our government. When spies infiltrate a government, crooked cops, FBI, or CIA agents are caught, do we completely disband the agency they work for? Do we then place law enforcement in the public's hands? Of course not, because that's fucking ridiculous. The "safest hands" are not our own. It's an absurd notion. We don't even let human soldiers/cops have to much power in the decision making. There's rules, guidelines, procedures for when fuck up - and they do fuck up. When Tony (or the team) fucks up, he admits it. He tries to make it right. When Cap (or the team) fucks up, Cap sits a team member down (Wanda, for example) and tells them everything is going to be ok and then breaks the law and runs away and becomes a fugitive whenever he doesn't agree. He's a dick. He's not a bad person, but he's a difficult one. He's never wrong. You mean the government wants say over how weapons/soldiers are used? Who should have that say, the public? The soldiers themselves? I think that's called martial law.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 8, 2019 16:30:39 GMT
HYDRA is a terrorist organization. They are not our government. When spies infiltrate a government, crooked cops, FBI, or CIA agents are caught, do we completely disband the agency they work for? Do we then place law enforcement in the public's hands? Of course not, because that's fucking ridiculous. The "safest hands" are not our own. It's an absurd notion. We don't even let human soldiers/cops have to much power in the decision making. There's rules, guidelines, procedures for when fuck up - and they do fuck up. When Tony (or the team) fucks up, he admits it. He tries to make it right. When Cap (or the team) fucks up, Cap sits a team member down (Wanda, for example) and tells them everything is going to be ok and then breaks the law and runs away and becomes a fugitive whenever he doesn't agree. He's a dick. He's not a bad person, but he's a difficult one. He's never wrong. You mean the government wants say over how weapons/soldiers are used? Who should have that say, the public? The soldiers themselves? I think that's called martial law. It's laughable how MCU has Cap refuse to sign the Accords (even after a team of Avengers under his command acted recklessly and caused the deaths of many innocent civilians) on the ridiculous claim that the UN can't be trusted because they might be infiltrated by HYDRA, yet at the end of Endgame Cap goes to Vormir and willingly hands over the powerful Soul Stone to the Red Skull, who was a former leader of HYDRA! And you're absolutely correct. Cap is advocating martial law, which is usually the 1st step towards tyranny.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 8, 2019 16:31:58 GMT
You must be a conservative. He's clearly a liberal. That's why you don't understand. You say that like it's a curse word. Pretty dirtbag move of you. I voted for Hilary btw. Obama too. Twice. You assumed I said that like it was a curse word. Pretty paranoid move of you.
I'm glad you voted for Hilary and Obama.    
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Post by kuatorises on May 8, 2019 17:07:34 GMT
You say that like it's a curse word. Pretty dirtbag move of you. I voted for Hilary btw. Obama too. Twice. You assumed I said that like it was a curse word. Pretty paranoid move of you.
I'm glad you voted for Hilary and Obama.
You have no integrity, bub:
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Post by kuatorises on May 8, 2019 17:45:34 GMT
HYDRA is a terrorist organization. They are not our government. When spies infiltrate a government, crooked cops, FBI, or CIA agents are caught, do we completely disband the agency they work for? Do we then place law enforcement in the public's hands? Of course not, because that's fucking ridiculous. The "safest hands" are not our own. It's an absurd notion. We don't even let human soldiers/cops have to much power in the decision making. There's rules, guidelines, procedures for when fuck up - and they do fuck up. When Tony (or the team) fucks up, he admits it. He tries to make it right. When Cap (or the team) fucks up, Cap sits a team member down (Wanda, for example) and tells them everything is going to be ok and then breaks the law and runs away and becomes a fugitive whenever he doesn't agree. He's a dick. He's not a bad person, but he's a difficult one. He's never wrong. You mean the government wants say over how weapons/soldiers are used? Who should have that say, the public? The soldiers themselves? I think that's called martial law. It's laughable how MCU has Cap refuse to sign the Accords (even after a team of Avengers under his command acted recklessly and caused the deaths of many innocent civilians) on the ridiculous claim that the UN can't be trusted because they might be infiltrated by HYDRA, yet at the end of Endgame Cap goes to Vormir and willingly hands over the powerful Soul Stone to the Red Skull, who was a former leader of HYDRA! And you're absolutely correct. Cap is advocating martial law, which is usually the 1st step towards tyranny. He was against the Accords in the comics too, only it wasn't called the Accords. He was actually worse in the comics. He was completely unhinged and was actually going to kill Tony. It was a complaint that people had about the series. They thought he was so uncharacteristically fanatical.
He's a very strange person. Do I think that he believes in martial law? No. I don't think he wants anything to do with that. I don't think he craves power whatsoever. He doesn't want to be in charge. If anything he showed that he is almost antiauthority. He reminds me of a libertarian or anarchist. He doesn't want the government controlling things governments should control. I don't think he's a bad person or power-hungry, but very odd and contrarian. I mean even his last scene. Sam is being polite and asks about his wife and he just refuses to say anything. He's an odd bird.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 8, 2019 18:48:36 GMT
You assumed I said that like it was a curse word. Pretty paranoid move of you.
I'm glad you voted for Hilary and Obama.
You have no integrity, bub:
Awww, I love you too!   
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Post by ThatGuy on May 8, 2019 21:11:35 GMT
Nah, all your questions are easily answered if you watch the movies. Cap spent his entire military career fighting Hydra and their advanced weaponry. Of course he's going to be upset when he finds out his current employers are secretly continuing Hydra's research into weapons. He only found out about Thor's visit to earth after he found out about the weapons, which means he was already upset, and it didn't help that Loki's scepter was egging them on. Their problem with Tony was not that he made Ultron but that he had made it without telling them. That Tony said he was simply going to study Loki's scepter but then tried to make an AI robot out of it without even consulting the team. The loss of trust was the problem. As for Cap's stance on the Accords, well. Do you remember the last few times the Avengers trusted some type of government agency to assist them? First the world council tried to nuke NY, then SHIELD/Hydra tried to mass murder millions of people. Do you really blame Cap that he's not willing to trust another government agency to manage them? Especially when Ross made it sound like they were simple weapons to be used however that body decides to?There were giant flying whales smashing into buildings in the middle of NY. GIANT FUCKING SPACE WHALES. This is AFTER a mythological god (Loki) breaks into the most secure facility in the US and steals the most powerful weapon/artifact humanity has ever seen (the tesseract) and took it with ease. Then, his brother shows up and simply takes him away from our custody (again with ease) after he murdered close to 100 people. We're not talking about a lone wolf with a homemade bomb strapped to his chest or even a very small, but organized, group running around killing civis. There is nothing in real life that can cause this level of destruction. This is the biggest threat humanity has ever seen. EVER. I am really fighting with myself here and holding back from what I really want to say, but dismissing the level of threat that exists here is beyond short-sighted. Your flippant dismissal of just how serious this is (or would be in the real world) is 100% unwarranted. Something major needs to be done to combat and prevent situations like this and the people handling it need to be governed, held responsible, etc. just like every other citizen in our country. So what if they tried to use our biggest weapon (nukes) against the biggest threat humanity ever faced? I'm not even saying it was a "good" call, but certainly a very common and tactically correct response. HYDRA is a terrorist organization. They are not our government. When spies infiltrate a government, crooked cops, FBI, or CIA agents are caught, do we completely disband the agency they work for? Do we then place law enforcement in the public's hands? Of course not, because that's fucking ridiculous. The "safest hands" are not our own. It's an absurd notion. We don't even let human soldiers/cops have to much power in the decision making. There's rules, guidelines, procedures for when fuck up - and they do fuck up. When Tony (or the team) fucks up, he admits it. He tries to make it right. When Cap (or the team) fucks up, Cap sits a team member down (Wanda, for example) and tells them everything is going to be ok and then breaks the law and runs away and becomes a fugitive whenever he doesn't agree. He's a dick. He's not a bad person, but he's a difficult one. He's never wrong. You mean the government wants say over how weapons/soldiers are used? Who should have that say, the public? The soldiers themselves? I think that's called martial law. Actually, when Tony screwed up, he said they all needed to be held in check. All those videos that Ross showed them was because of Tony except for what Wanda did. And Wanda is a kid to them. Tony is in his late 40s by then. You can't compare them. By that time in their career/life, Tony should know better. He's just arrogant and can't take the fall himself. What makes it worse, after creating Ultron, he goes and tries to make another robot (which Banner calls him on).
And HYDRA took over SHIELD. There was more HYDRA agents than real SHIELD.
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Post by kuatorises on May 9, 2019 13:17:41 GMT
There were giant flying whales smashing into buildings in the middle of NY. GIANT FUCKING SPACE WHALES. This is AFTER a mythological god (Loki) breaks into the most secure facility in the US and steals the most powerful weapon/artifact humanity has ever seen (the tesseract) and took it with ease. Then, his brother shows up and simply takes him away from our custody (again with ease) after he murdered close to 100 people. We're not talking about a lone wolf with a homemade bomb strapped to his chest or even a very small, but organized, group running around killing civis. There is nothing in real life that can cause this level of destruction. This is the biggest threat humanity has ever seen. EVER. I am really fighting with myself here and holding back from what I really want to say, but dismissing the level of threat that exists here is beyond short-sighted. Your flippant dismissal of just how serious this is (or would be in the real world) is 100% unwarranted. Something major needs to be done to combat and prevent situations like this and the people handling it need to be governed, held responsible, etc. just like every other citizen in our country. So what if they tried to use our biggest weapon (nukes) against the biggest threat humanity ever faced? I'm not even saying it was a "good" call, but certainly a very common and tactically correct response. HYDRA is a terrorist organization. They are not our government. When spies infiltrate a government, crooked cops, FBI, or CIA agents are caught, do we completely disband the agency they work for? Do we then place law enforcement in the public's hands? Of course not, because that's fucking ridiculous. The "safest hands" are not our own. It's an absurd notion. We don't even let human soldiers/cops have to much power in the decision making. There's rules, guidelines, procedures for when fuck up - and they do fuck up. When Tony (or the team) fucks up, he admits it. He tries to make it right. When Cap (or the team) fucks up, Cap sits a team member down (Wanda, for example) and tells them everything is going to be ok and then breaks the law and runs away and becomes a fugitive whenever he doesn't agree. He's a dick. He's not a bad person, but he's a difficult one. He's never wrong. You mean the government wants say over how weapons/soldiers are used? Who should have that say, the public? The soldiers themselves? I think that's called martial law. Actually, when Tony screwed up, he said they all needed to be held in check. All those videos that Ross showed them was because of Tony except for what Wanda did. And Wanda is a kid to them. Tony is in his late 40s by then. You can't compare them. By that time in their career/life, Tony should know better. He's just arrogant and can't take the fall himself. What makes it worse, after creating Ultron, he goes and tries to make another robot (which Banner calls him on).
And HYDRA took over SHIELD. There was more HYDRA agents than real SHIELD. 
You Capsters excuse every mistake made by literally EVERYONE else not named Tony Stark; if not outright lie to make your point. Stark isn't even present at the incident that causes the world to demand the Accords to begin with.
Hulk alone is something of a problem, particularly when people like Wanda take control of his mind. Oh right, "Wanda is a kid" again. My bad, I forgot. She'll learn. This is already in addition to some of the stuff that I already mentioned. Loki single-handedly murders roughly a 100 people and Thor literally just takes him; only to team with and allow him to live as a free man by Ragnorak. But yeah....Tony, blah, blah, blah, something angry...all his fault, blah.
The irony is you Cap defenders expect cops, military, etc. to be held to the highest standards. It's always their fault. Beings more power than 100 of them combined? Lets cut em some slack.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 9, 2019 14:59:04 GMT
Actually, when Tony screwed up, he said they all needed to be held in check. All those videos that Ross showed them was because of Tony except for what Wanda did. And Wanda is a kid to them. Tony is in his late 40s by then. You can't compare them. By that time in their career/life, Tony should know better. He's just arrogant and can't take the fall himself. What makes it worse, after creating Ultron, he goes and tries to make another robot (which Banner calls him on).
And HYDRA took over SHIELD. There was more HYDRA agents than real SHIELD.
You Capsters excuse every mistake made by literally EVERYONE else not named Tony Stark; if not outright lie to make your point. Stark isn't even present at the incident that causes the world to demand the Accords to begin with.
Hulk alone is something of a problem, particularly when people like Wanda take control of his mind. Oh right, "Wanda is a kid" again. My bad, I forgot. She'll learn. This is already in addition to some of the stuff that I already mentioned. Loki single-handedly murders roughly a 100 people and Thor literally just takes him; only to team with and allow him to live as a free man by Ragnorak. But yeah....Tony, blah, blah, blah, something angry...all his fault, blah.
The irony is you Cap defenders expect cops, military, etc. to be held to the highest standards. It's always their fault. Beings more power than 100 of them combined? Lets cut em some slack.
Funny you say that "Stark isn't even present at the incident that causes the world to demand the Accords to begin with," when I said that he was the cause of all of those events except for the one caused by Wanda. And you even highlight it. And, yes, Wanda is a kid to them. I say again, "To them." Wanda is a rookie and makes rookie mistakes. Especially when she loses control of her powers. Hell, that moment was closer to comics Wanda than any other since her power is suppose to be probability based. Thor was taking Loki back to Asgard and lock him up because the people of Earth aren't capable of holding him. The very thing he did at the end of Avengers and you see him locked up in The Dark World. Did you even watch these movies? He needed Loki to defeat Malekith. And in that Loki is believed killed with Odin still on the thrown. Thor didn't allow Loki to live free. Loki was disguised as Odin. And if you mean by the end of Ragnarok, Loki proved himself (falsely because he kept the tesseract). And Thor coming to retrieve Loki was interrupted by none other than who? Tony Stark. That arrogance...
The thing you don't realize is that the Infinity Saga is Stark's journey. Cap making the comment about Tony not being the one to make the sacrifice is his story. Tony did all he could to baby proof the world only to screw things up more.
Who said anything about the military and cops? Also, being powerful doesn't mean you are infallible.
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Post by kuatorises on May 9, 2019 15:15:10 GMT
You Capsters excuse every mistake made by literally EVERYONE else not named Tony Stark; if not outright lie to make your point. Stark isn't even present at the incident that causes the world to demand the Accords to begin with.
Hulk alone is something of a problem, particularly when people like Wanda take control of his mind. Oh right, "Wanda is a kid" again. My bad, I forgot. She'll learn. This is already in addition to some of the stuff that I already mentioned. Loki single-handedly murders roughly a 100 people and Thor literally just takes him; only to team with and allow him to live as a free man by Ragnorak. But yeah....Tony, blah, blah, blah, something angry...all his fault, blah.
The irony is you Cap defenders expect cops, military, etc. to be held to the highest standards. It's always their fault. Beings more power than 100 of them combined? Lets cut em some slack.
Funny you say that "Stark isn't even present at the incident that causes the world to demand the Accords to begin with," when I said that he was the cause of all of those events except for the one caused by Wanda. And you even highlight it. And, yes, Wanda is a kid to them. I say again, "To them." Wanda is a rookie and makes rookie mistakes. Especially when she loses control of her powers. Hell, that moment was closer to comics Wanda than any other since her power is suppose to be probability based. Thor was taking Loki back to Asgard and lock him up because the people of Earth aren't capable of holding him. The very thing he did at the end of Avengers and you see him locked up in The Dark World. Did you even watch these movies? He needed Loki to defeat Malekith. And in that Loki is believed killed with Odin still on the thrown. Thor didn't allow Loki to live free. Loki was disguised as Odin. And if you mean by the end of Ragnarok, Loki proved himself (falsely because he kept the tesseract). And Thor coming to retrieve Loki was interrupted by none other than who? Tony Stark. That arrogance...
The thing you don't realize is that the Infinity Saga is Stark's journey. Cap making the comment about Tony not being the one to make the sacrifice is his story. Tony did all he could to baby proof the world only to screw things up more.
Who said anything about the military and cops? Also, being powerful doesn't mean you are infallible.
Fuck outta here with that "all Stark" nonsense. Loki was a mass murderer and prisoner. Thor essentially broke him out of jail and your blaming Stark for trying to retrieve him?! I can't with this conversation. Not with that kind of bias and borderline lies.
Loki is a free man by the end of Ragnorak. Thor allows him to live on the ship - and would have on Earth - as a free man. He's a mass murderer who's only allowed to be free because he's Thor's brother. THAT is what I mean "by the end of Ragnorak". Thor has made a TON of bad decisions and the Asgardians are directly responsible for many human deaths and why SHIELD and Stark wanted to start the Avengers to begin with. But yeah...it's just Tony who screwed things up, lol. Be gone with that nonsense. I can't with you. Just plain gibberish.
That's the FUCKING POINT of trying to hold them accountable.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 9, 2019 15:58:06 GMT
Funny you say that "Stark isn't even present at the incident that causes the world to demand the Accords to begin with," when I said that he was the cause of all of those events except for the one caused by Wanda. And you even highlight it. And, yes, Wanda is a kid to them. I say again, "To them." Wanda is a rookie and makes rookie mistakes. Especially when she loses control of her powers. Hell, that moment was closer to comics Wanda than any other since her power is suppose to be probability based. Thor was taking Loki back to Asgard and lock him up because the people of Earth aren't capable of holding him. The very thing he did at the end of Avengers and you see him locked up in The Dark World. Did you even watch these movies? He needed Loki to defeat Malekith. And in that Loki is believed killed with Odin still on the thrown. Thor didn't allow Loki to live free. Loki was disguised as Odin. And if you mean by the end of Ragnarok, Loki proved himself (falsely because he kept the tesseract). And Thor coming to retrieve Loki was interrupted by none other than who? Tony Stark. That arrogance...
The thing you don't realize is that the Infinity Saga is Stark's journey. Cap making the comment about Tony not being the one to make the sacrifice is his story. Tony did all he could to baby proof the world only to screw things up more.
Who said anything about the military and cops? Also, being powerful doesn't mean you are infallible.
Fuck outta here with that "all Stark" nonsense. Loki was a mass murderer and prisoner. Thor essentially broke him out of jail and your blaming Stark for trying to retrieve him?! I can't with this conversation. Not with that kind of bias and borderline lies.
Loki is a free man by the end of Ragnorak. Thor allows him to live on the ship - and would have on Earth - as a free man. He's a mass murderer who's only allowed to be free because he's Thor's brother. THAT is what I mean "by the end of Ragnorak". Thor has made a TON of bad decisions and the Asgardians are directly responsible for many human deaths and why SHIELD and Stark wanted to start the Avengers to begin with. But yeah...it's just Tony who screwed things up, lol. Be gone with that nonsense. I can't with you. Just plain gibberish.
That's the FUCKING POINT of trying to hold them accountable.
Question: would the Accords actually even apply to an Asgardian? They are not human which, to a certain extent, explains Loki's psychopathy and utter indifference to "human" life. If the Avengers was designed to safeguard humanity against alien threats, Thor should not be eligible to be on the team and thus can't be made accountable for his actions by human standards. I mean you could try but, your response is likely to be 50,000 watts of disagreement.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 9, 2019 16:32:29 GMT
Funny you say that "Stark isn't even present at the incident that causes the world to demand the Accords to begin with," when I said that he was the cause of all of those events except for the one caused by Wanda. And you even highlight it. And, yes, Wanda is a kid to them. I say again, "To them." Wanda is a rookie and makes rookie mistakes. Especially when she loses control of her powers. Hell, that moment was closer to comics Wanda than any other since her power is suppose to be probability based. Thor was taking Loki back to Asgard and lock him up because the people of Earth aren't capable of holding him. The very thing he did at the end of Avengers and you see him locked up in The Dark World. Did you even watch these movies? He needed Loki to defeat Malekith. And in that Loki is believed killed with Odin still on the thrown. Thor didn't allow Loki to live free. Loki was disguised as Odin. And if you mean by the end of Ragnarok, Loki proved himself (falsely because he kept the tesseract). And Thor coming to retrieve Loki was interrupted by none other than who? Tony Stark. That arrogance...
The thing you don't realize is that the Infinity Saga is Stark's journey. Cap making the comment about Tony not being the one to make the sacrifice is his story. Tony did all he could to baby proof the world only to screw things up more.
Who said anything about the military and cops? Also, being powerful doesn't mean you are infallible.
Fuck outta here with that "all Stark" nonsense. Loki was a mass murderer and prisoner. Thor essentially broke him out of jail and your blaming Stark for trying to retrieve him?! I can't with this conversation. Not with that kind of bias and borderline lies.
Loki is a free man by the end of Ragnorak. Thor allows him to live on the ship - and would have on Earth - as a free man. He's a mass murderer who's only allowed to be free because he's Thor's brother. THAT is what I mean "by the end of Ragnorak". Thor has made a TON of bad decisions and the Asgardians are directly responsible for many human deaths and why SHIELD and Stark wanted to start the Avengers to begin with. But yeah...it's just Tony who screwed things up, lol. Be gone with that nonsense. I can't with you. Just plain gibberish.
That's the FUCKING POINT of trying to hold them accountable.
Thor didn't break Loki out of jail. Loki was on a transport. Thor went to get him to take him back to Agard so they can hold him in an Asgardian cell. Which he actually did. You didn't say "by the end of Ragnarok" you said "by Ragnarok." Which means the beginning of it. Go ahead and edit it. Um... Fury wanted to start the Avengers before Stark. He came to Stark as his first candidate. Also on the Loki note, like I said, Loki proved himself (again falsely) to be trustworthy by the end of Ragnarok.
They don't want to hold them accountable. They want them as weapons to be used when they see fit. Since the Avengers are an America based team, they will be controlled by America. The American government can then send them into any country to be used as those weapons. They'd pretty much become Task Force X.
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Post by kuatorises on May 9, 2019 16:43:36 GMT
Fuck outta here with that "all Stark" nonsense. Loki was a mass murderer and prisoner. Thor essentially broke him out of jail and your blaming Stark for trying to retrieve him?! I can't with this conversation. Not with that kind of bias and borderline lies.
Loki is a free man by the end of Ragnorak. Thor allows him to live on the ship - and would have on Earth - as a free man. He's a mass murderer who's only allowed to be free because he's Thor's brother. THAT is what I mean "by the end of Ragnorak". Thor has made a TON of bad decisions and the Asgardians are directly responsible for many human deaths and why SHIELD and Stark wanted to start the Avengers to begin with. But yeah...it's just Tony who screwed things up, lol. Be gone with that nonsense. I can't with you. Just plain gibberish.
That's the FUCKING POINT of trying to hold them accountable.
They are not human which, to a certain extent, explains Loki's psychopathy and utter indifference to "human" life. If the Avengers was designed to safeguard humanity against alien threats, Thor should not be eligible to be on the team and thus can't be made accountable for his actions by human standards. I mean you could try but, your response is likely to be 50,000 watts of disagreement. Go to another country, break the law, and then try to tell them their laws don't apply to you. I dare you. Does Asgardian law apply to people visiting their planet? Of course it does. Hell, the Asgardians locked up people from OTHER planets, as seen in The Dark World.
At what point can we start calling out people further mistakes other than Tony Stark? I mean, asking if people have to follow the laws of a country (planet in this case) they are currently on? Kind of a silly question. And for what? Defending Cap/bashing Stark? Isn't it just easier to admit Stark isn't always wrong?
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