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Post by Lord Death Man on May 9, 2019 18:54:31 GMT
Question: would the Accords actually even apply to an Asgardian? They are not human which, to a certain extent, explains Loki's psychopathy and utter indifference to "human" life. If the Avengers was designed to safeguard humanity against alien threats, Thor should not be eligible to be on the team and thus can't be made accountable for his actions by human standards. I mean you could try but, your response is likely to be 50,000 watts of disagreement. Go to another country, break the law, and then try to tell them their laws don't apply to you. I dare you. Does Asgardian law apply to people visiting their planet? Of course it does. Hell, the Asgardians locked up people from OTHER planets, as seen in The Dark World.
At what point can we start calling out people further mistakes other than Tony Stark? I mean, asking if people have to follow the laws of a country (planet in this case) they are currently on? Kind of a silly question. And for what? Defending Cap/bashing Stark? Isn't it just easier to admit Stark isn't always wrong?
Silly as i may seem, consider this, Asguardian's should have been given the option to sign the accords if we were serious about mutually obeying each others laws. If they were excluded, which they were, all we have is informal, best practice to address their transgressions.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 10, 2019 3:22:09 GMT
That's the FUCKING POINT of trying to hold them accountable. This is one of the reasons why I give low ratings to MCU movies. Because MCU's so-called "heroes" refuse to be held accountable for their actions and refuse to respect and abide by the justice system that EVERY non-super-powered human abides by. Loki kills hundreds of people and Thor just lets him go free without facing trial by the people of Earth for crimes against the people of Earth. Wanda (who is an adult, not a minor) kills dozens of people and Cap doesn't think she should be held accountable for that. Bucky kills 2 civilians and Cap aids and abets Bucky to escape from the law. Black Widow tells Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers don't have to answer to the people. Basically, the Avengers think that because they're more powerful than the rest of the people, they can rule over the people and don't have to answer to the people or be held accountable for their actions. That's not what true heroes do. And that's why I give low ratings to MCU movies.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on May 10, 2019 4:49:23 GMT
That's the FUCKING POINT of trying to hold them accountable. This is one of the reasons why I give low ratings to MCU movies. Because MCU's so-called "heroes" refuse to be held accountable for their actions and refuse to respect and abide by the justice system that EVERY non-super-powered human abides by. Loki kills hundreds of people and Thor just lets him go free without facing trial by the people of Earth for crimes against the people of Earth. Wanda (who is an adult, not a minor) kills dozens of people and Cap doesn't think she should be held accountable for that. Bucky kills 2 civilians and Cap aids and abets Bucky to escape from the law. Black Widow tells Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers don't have to answer to the people. Basically, the Avengers think that because they're more powerful than the rest of the people, they can rule over the people and don't have to answer to the people or be held accountable for their actions. That's not what true heroes do. And that's why I give low ratings to MCU movies. So where was Steppenwolf's trial for his crimes? Where was Zod's trial for his crimes? See, this is why mostly everyone here thinks you're stupid.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 10, 2019 5:56:56 GMT
This is one of the reasons why I give low ratings to MCU movies. Because MCU's so-called "heroes" refuse to be held accountable for their actions and refuse to respect and abide by the justice system that EVERY non-super-powered human abides by. Loki kills hundreds of people and Thor just lets him go free without facing trial by the people of Earth for crimes against the people of Earth. Wanda (who is an adult, not a minor) kills dozens of people and Cap doesn't think she should be held accountable for that. Bucky kills 2 civilians and Cap aids and abets Bucky to escape from the law. Black Widow tells Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers don't have to answer to the people. Basically, the Avengers think that because they're more powerful than the rest of the people, they can rule over the people and don't have to answer to the people or be held accountable for their actions. That's not what true heroes do. And that's why I give low ratings to MCU movies. So where was Steppenwolf's trial for his crimes? The Parademons took Steppenwolf through the boom tube before he could be apprehended. I'm pretty sure Earth doesn't have an extradition treaty with Apokolips. Where was Zod's trial for his crimes? Zod didn't have a trial for the same reason that the hijackers who flew the planes into the World Trade Center towers on 9/11 didn't have a trial. Because they're dead. Zod died while trying to kill an innocent family. It's similar to armed bank robbers who are shot and killed by the cops while trying to kill a hostage. There's no trial because the bank robber is dead. What's the point of having a trial for someone who is already dead? Loki committed crimes against the people of Earth and was apprehended alive on Earth. But instead of allowing him to stand trial on Earth for crimes against the people of Earth, Thor just lets Loki go free. Same with Bucky and Wanda. Bucky killed 2 civilians. But instead of allowing Bucky to stand trial for his crimes and let the people decide his guilt, Cap decides to be a tyrant and declares Bucky innocent and aids and abets Bucky to escape from the law. Wanda (who is an adult and not a minor) caused the deaths of dozens of people. Now since it wasn't premeditated or intentional, Wanda would only be charged with manslaughter instead of murder. But it still should be the people who decide that. But once again, Cap decides to be a tyrant and declares Wanda innocent and refuses to allow her to stand trial and answer to the people. Basically, the Avengers think that because they're more powerful than the rest of the people, they can rule over the people and don't have to answer to the people or be held accountable for their actions. That's not what true heroes do. And that's why I give low ratings to MCU movies.
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Post by kuatorises on May 11, 2019 12:48:01 GMT
This is one of the reasons why I give low ratings to MCU movies. Because MCU's so-called "heroes" refuse to be held accountable for their actions and refuse to respect and abide by the justice system that EVERY non-super-powered human abides by. Loki kills hundreds of people and Thor just lets him go free without facing trial by the people of Earth for crimes against the people of Earth. Wanda (who is an adult, not a minor) kills dozens of people and Cap doesn't think she should be held accountable for that. Bucky kills 2 civilians and Cap aids and abets Bucky to escape from the law. Black Widow tells Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers don't have to answer to the people. Basically, the Avengers think that because they're more powerful than the rest of the people, they can rule over the people and don't have to answer to the people or be held accountable for their actions. That's not what true heroes do. And that's why I give low ratings to MCU movies. So where was Steppenwolf's trial for his crimes? Where was Zod's trial for his crimes? See, this is why mostly everyone here thinks you're stupid. Taken to God knows where and dead. Not sure what point you were trying to make, but this comparison doesn't work.
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Post by kuatorises on May 11, 2019 14:46:11 GMT
That's the FUCKING POINT of trying to hold them accountable. This is one of the reasons why I give low ratings to MCU movies. Because MCU's so-called "heroes" refuse to be held accountable for their actions and refuse to respect and abide by the justice system that EVERY non-super-powered human abides by. Loki kills hundreds of people and Thor just lets him go free without facing trial by the people of Earth for crimes against the people of Earth. Wanda (who is an adult, not a minor) kills dozens of people and Cap doesn't think she should be held accountable for that. Bucky kills 2 civilians and Cap aids and abets Bucky to escape from the law. Black Widow tells Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers don't have to answer to the people. Basically, the Avengers think that because they're more powerful than the rest of the people, they can rule over the people and don't have to answer to the people or be held accountable for their actions. That's not what true heroes do. And that's why I give low ratings to MCU movies. I don't think they want to rule over the rest of humanity, I think they just want to be able to act without consequences. There's a difference. The Thor/Loki stuff is not excusable. I like Thor, but he simply aided and abetted a mass murderer. You are correct, Wanda is not a kid. False argument. She's an adult and screws up once (in Civil War) and intentionally sets Hulk loose in AoU. Widow is an asshole imo. I never liked her. She's not a good person and not likeable. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish with the character, but she's constantly breaking laws, doing what she wants, and is never really likeable. Her little speech before Congress made me want to throat punch her. That being said, I did like her arc in Endgame. I thought they did a good job with her, particularly her death. Cap is Cap. We've discussed him several times. He does what he wants, is all about Bucky, and a bizarre contrarian of a man. Not a bad guy, but borderline anti-authority and certainly doesn't think he has to play by the rules.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 11, 2019 15:25:26 GMT
This is one of the reasons why I give low ratings to MCU movies. Because MCU's so-called "heroes" refuse to be held accountable for their actions and refuse to respect and abide by the justice system that EVERY non-super-powered human abides by. Loki kills hundreds of people and Thor just lets him go free without facing trial by the people of Earth for crimes against the people of Earth. Wanda (who is an adult, not a minor) kills dozens of people and Cap doesn't think she should be held accountable for that. Bucky kills 2 civilians and Cap aids and abets Bucky to escape from the law. Black Widow tells Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers don't have to answer to the people. Basically, the Avengers think that because they're more powerful than the rest of the people, they can rule over the people and don't have to answer to the people or be held accountable for their actions. That's not what true heroes do. And that's why I give low ratings to MCU movies. I don't think they want to rule over the rest of humanity, I think they just want to be able to act without consequences. There's a difference. Cap is Cap. We've discussed him several times. He does what he wants, is all about Bucky, and a bizarre contrarian of a man. Not a bad guy, but borderline anti-authority and certainly doesn't think he has to play by the rules. The closest comparison to the Avengers is Section 31 in Star Trek. Cap wants the Avengers to have autonomy to do whatever they want and not have to answer to anyone or be held accountable for their actions, just like Section 31. And as we've seen many times, when a group has autonomy and doesn't answer to anyone and isn't held accountable for their actions, they very quickly begin to abuse their power and then freedom and democracy begins to diminish. And that's what Cap wants - total autonomy for the Avengers, which would inevitably lead to lesser freedom and democracy for everyone else. So in that sense, Cap is anti-freedom and anti-democracy and pro-tyranny.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 11, 2019 15:43:21 GMT
You're not totally wrong about his actions, but I think you are wrong about his motive. It's not because he thinks he's better or never wrong or shouldn't be held accountable (to a degree), it's just he's a soldier and grew up in time where was simpler and everything literally was black and white (Allies good guys; Nazis/HYDRA bad guys). He knew the mark, but he didn't get to come home from the war and have a family with Peggy and live the normal life. Now he's just a man out of time in a more grey area dealing with aliens/God with questionable allegiance at the time, working for an agency doing questionable stuff before realizing they were the enemy all along. He's properly paranoid, and I think rightfully so, especially of the government. As he said in Civil War, if he sees a situation go south, he can't ignore it. In the comics, I think that is denoted to his Catholicism, but its been established in the films it's just because he doesn't like bullies, but to an extent, just seeing others oppressed in degree.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 11, 2019 17:17:50 GMT
You're not totally wrong about his actions, but I think you are wrong about his motive. It's not because he thinks he's better or never wrong or shouldn't be held accountable (to a degree), it's just he's a soldier and grew up in time where was simpler and everything literally was black and white (Allies good guys; Nazis/HYDRA bad guys). He knew the mark, but he didn't get to come home from the war and have a family with Peggy and live the normal life. Now he's just a man out of time in a more grey area dealing with aliens/God with questionable allegiance at the time, working for an agency doing questionable stuff before realizing they were the enemy all along. He's properly paranoid, and I think rightfully so, especially of the government. As he said in Civil War, if he sees a situation go south, he can't ignore it. In the comics, I think that is denoted to his Catholicism, but its been established in the films it's just because he doesn't like bullies, but to an extent, just seeing others oppressed in degree. And none of that excuses him for aiding and abetting a double-murderer to flee from the law. Rogers claims he hates bullies. Yet he aids and abets a murderer who choked a defenseless woman to death. There's no bigger bully than a murderer who chokes to death a defenseless woman trapped in a car after a crash. All that talk by Rogers about hating bullies is just BULLSHIT!!! Rogers is a tyrant and the real bully, who aided and abetted another bully who choked a defenseless woman to death.
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Post by kuatorises on May 12, 2019 14:15:01 GMT
You're not totally wrong about his actions, but I think you are wrong about his motive. It's not because he thinks he's better or never wrong or shouldn't be held accountable (to a degree), it's just he's a soldier and grew up in time where was simpler and everything literally was black and white (Allies good guys; Nazis/HYDRA bad guys). He knew the mark, but he didn't get to come home from the war and have a family with Peggy and live the normal life. Now he's just a man out of time in a more grey area dealing with aliens/God with questionable allegiance at the time, working for an agency doing questionable stuff before realizing they were the enemy all along. He's properly paranoid, and I think rightfully so, especially of the government. As he said in Civil War, if he sees a situation go south, he can't ignore it. In the comics, I think that is denoted to his Catholicism, but its been established in the films it's just because he doesn't like bullies, but to an extent, just seeing others oppressed in degree. Being paranoid is never "proper". Paranoia is defined as "An unrealistic distrust of others or a feeling of being persecuted. Extreme degrees may be a sign of mental illness." There's nothing wrong with questioning or doubting something or someone, especially if it's proven itself to be untrustworthy, but paranoia is never warranted. Paranoia goes past that point of what is acceptable in seeking the truth.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 12, 2019 16:44:08 GMT
You're not totally wrong about his actions, but I think you are wrong about his motive. It's not because he thinks he's better or never wrong or shouldn't be held accountable (to a degree), it's just he's a soldier and grew up in time where was simpler and everything literally was black and white (Allies good guys; Nazis/HYDRA bad guys). He knew the mark, but he didn't get to come home from the war and have a family with Peggy and live the normal life. Now he's just a man out of time in a more grey area dealing with aliens/God with questionable allegiance at the time, working for an agency doing questionable stuff before realizing they were the enemy all along. He's properly paranoid, and I think rightfully so, especially of the government. As he said in Civil War, if he sees a situation go south, he can't ignore it. In the comics, I think that is denoted to his Catholicism, but its been established in the films it's just because he doesn't like bullies, but to an extent, just seeing others oppressed in degree. And none of that excuses him for aiding and abetting a double-murderer to flee from the law. Rogers claims he hates bullies. Yet he aids and abets a murderer who choked a defenseless woman to death. There's no bigger bully than a murderer who chokes to death a defenseless woman trapped in a car after a crash. All that talk by Rogers about hating bullies is just BULLSHIT!!! Rogers is a tyrant and the real bully, who aided and abetted another bully who choked a defenseless woman to death. And as usual, you were already countered on this argument more than once, but you refused to listen. Cap had already planned on taking Bucky in initially in Romania because there was a shoot-to-kill order and T'Challah said he'd kill Bucky himself, so besides T'Challah, Rogers knew the regular police wouldn't be able to take Bucky in and Cap didn't want Bucky to kill any of them. After he escaped in Germany, he couldn't bring him in because T'Challah was blinded with rage and would never believe Bucky was innocent and was going to take him back to Wakanda to be executed, but also Cap needed to stop Zemo from awakening the other Winter Soldiers in Siberia, and he needed Bucky's help, the only other super soldier because Cap knew he couldn't take on 6 of them alone. If any of that is even remotely confusing to you, then you're just an illiterate moron. |
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 12, 2019 16:47:26 GMT
You're not totally wrong about his actions, but I think you are wrong about his motive. It's not because he thinks he's better or never wrong or shouldn't be held accountable (to a degree), it's just he's a soldier and grew up in time where was simpler and everything literally was black and white (Allies good guys; Nazis/HYDRA bad guys). He knew the mark, but he didn't get to come home from the war and have a family with Peggy and live the normal life. Now he's just a man out of time in a more grey area dealing with aliens/God with questionable allegiance at the time, working for an agency doing questionable stuff before realizing they were the enemy all along. He's properly paranoid, and I think rightfully so, especially of the government. As he said in Civil War, if he sees a situation go south, he can't ignore it. In the comics, I think that is denoted to his Catholicism, but its been established in the films it's just because he doesn't like bullies, but to an extent, just seeing others oppressed in degree. Being paranoid is never "proper". Paranoia is defined as "An unrealistic distrust of others or a feeling of being persecuted. Extreme degrees may be a sign of mental illness." There's nothing wrong with questioning or doubting something or someone, especially if it's proven itself to be untrustworthy, but paranoia is never warranted. Paranoia goes past that point of what is acceptable in seeking the truth. I disagree because you can't deny that Cap wasn't wrong about some of the issues he was paranoid about, especially in regards to SHIELD and Bucky in Civil War. |
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