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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 13, 2019 15:06:15 GMT
You should really learn the difference between plot hole and nitpicking. Most of them are nitpicks but it leads off with a complete misunderstanding of the story. The author acts as if every event in Strange's plan was a roll of the dice. The guy literally observed that timeline and saw what happened. Nothing in the battle was going to go any differently so long as nobody knew what was supposed to happen (which Strange reiterated during the battle itself). There's no plot hole with his plan, he watched the successful events of that timeline and then insured it would happen. The rest of the stuff is nitpicking. Where'd he get the shield? Considering he has the Stones and the Pym particles and can literally go wherever or do whatever he wants, there are countless ways he could've gotten another shield. It's not even a question worth asking. I actually had that thought about Hawkeye's wife calling him when I saw the film. It's the kind of small detail that doesn't make a ton of sense but it doesn't affect the story at all so you let it slide.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 13, 2019 15:09:34 GMT
From the article: Maybe you should read these article before you post them, you wouldn't look like such a dunce. Its a cop out explanation. "Who knows which scenario is right" Lazy writing Lazy viewing on your part. I'm glad they didn't find it necessary to cater to the lowest common denominator and spoon feed every moron in the audience. But that's just me. I've finally figured it out, MCU movies are too complex for your taste. I could recommend some great educational cartoons my 4 year old son watches on PBS every morning.
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Post by dazz on May 13, 2019 19:56:17 GMT
You should really learn the difference between plot hole and nitpicking. Most of them are nitpicks but it leads off with a complete misunderstanding of the story. The author acts as if every event in Strange's plan was a roll of the dice. The guy literally observed that timeline and saw what happened. Nothing in the battle was going to go any differently so long as nobody knew what was supposed to happen (which Strange reiterated during the battle itself). There's no plot hole with his plan, he watched the successful events of that timeline and then insured it would happen. The rest of the stuff is nitpicking. Where'd he get the shield? Considering he has the Stones and the Pym particles and can literally go wherever or do whatever he wants, there are countless ways he could've gotten another shield. It's not even a question worth asking. I actually had that thought about Hawkeye's wife calling him when I saw the film. It's the kind of small detail that doesn't make a ton of sense but it doesn't affect the story at all so you let it slide. The phone is less an issue as you could believe Clint simply keeps paying the bill, of Natasha did in hopes that should they fix things she could call him, not unreasonable to believe one of them would do this, or Clint just kept paying the bill so he could call her number and hear her voice on the voicemail, people do these sort of things.
The Dr Strange thing I do find more valid, as Strange says he saw what less than 20 million futures, but the future changes with every choice made, in 5 years that is god knows how many choices which create god knows how many possible futures, my head canon is that Strange didn't see just various futures but end scenarios, which make that number more plausible, for all the alterations to the future a finite amount would impact the lives of these few people so for every scenario their could be a quadrillion variants to 99.99% of which don't alter that scenario at all, but he saw best case options for each scenario which is why in the millions he saw he could only see 1 where they won, having seen that he see's the key elements to that scenario which force it to play out, such as Scott being locked in the quantum realm, Tony living and having a daughter, the big things alter that scenario not the small stuff, whether Tony lives or dies matters, whether he eats a PB&J or a pain au chocolat for breakfast on the morning of August 3rd, 2021 doesn't, it's still a risk but it's the only shot they had.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 21:12:16 GMT
Most of them are nitpicks but it leads off with a complete misunderstanding of the story. The author acts as if every event in Strange's plan was a roll of the dice. The guy literally observed that timeline and saw what happened. Nothing in the battle was going to go any differently so long as nobody knew what was supposed to happen (which Strange reiterated during the battle itself). There's no plot hole with his plan, he watched the successful events of that timeline and then insured it would happen. The rest of the stuff is nitpicking. Where'd he get the shield? Considering he has the Stones and the Pym particles and can literally go wherever or do whatever he wants, there are countless ways he could've gotten another shield. It's not even a question worth asking. I actually had that thought about Hawkeye's wife calling him when I saw the film. It's the kind of small detail that doesn't make a ton of sense but it doesn't affect the story at all so you let it slide. The phone is less an issue as you could believe Clint simply keeps paying the bill, of Natasha did in hopes that should they fix things she could call him, not unreasonable to believe one of them would do this, or Clint just kept paying the bill so he could call her number and hear her voice on the voicemail, people do these sort of things.
The Dr Strange thing I do find more valid, as Strange says he saw what less than 20 million futures, but the future changes with every choice made, in 5 years that is god knows how many choices which create god knows how many possible futures, my head canon is that Strange didn't see just various futures but end scenarios, which make that number more plausible, for all the alterations to the future a finite amount would impact the lives of these few people so for every scenario their could be a quadrillion variants to 99.99% of which don't alter that scenario at all, but he saw best case options for each scenario which is why in the millions he saw he could only see 1 where they won, having seen that he see's the key elements to that scenario which force it to play out, such as Scott being locked in the quantum realm, Tony living and having a daughter, the big things alter that scenario not the small stuff, whether Tony lives or dies matters, whether he eats a PB&J or a pain au chocolat for breakfast on the morning of August 3rd, 2021 doesn't, it's still a risk but it's the only shot they had.
It's a game of seconds. Dr. Strange had to jump start the events in motion so that Ant-Man was in the quantum realm when Thanos did the snap. 3 seconds later and Ant-Man would have been out, and he had to be trapped in the quantum realm so he could realize time travel as a solution and relay the idea to the Avengers. If the snap occurred one more or one less second later, it might have taken the rat that wandered over the keyboard too. I think the snap had to occur at that second.
My favorite nitpick is Valkyrie bringing her horse into battle, like it was parked next to her home in New Asgard the entire time.
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Post by dazz on May 13, 2019 21:28:44 GMT
The phone is less an issue as you could believe Clint simply keeps paying the bill, of Natasha did in hopes that should they fix things she could call him, not unreasonable to believe one of them would do this, or Clint just kept paying the bill so he could call her number and hear her voice on the voicemail, people do these sort of things.
The Dr Strange thing I do find more valid, as Strange says he saw what less than 20 million futures, but the future changes with every choice made, in 5 years that is god knows how many choices which create god knows how many possible futures, my head canon is that Strange didn't see just various futures but end scenarios, which make that number more plausible, for all the alterations to the future a finite amount would impact the lives of these few people so for every scenario their could be a quadrillion variants to 99.99% of which don't alter that scenario at all, but he saw best case options for each scenario which is why in the millions he saw he could only see 1 where they won, having seen that he see's the key elements to that scenario which force it to play out, such as Scott being locked in the quantum realm, Tony living and having a daughter, the big things alter that scenario not the small stuff, whether Tony lives or dies matters, whether he eats a PB&J or a pain au chocolat for breakfast on the morning of August 3rd, 2021 doesn't, it's still a risk but it's the only shot they had.
It's a game of seconds. Dr. Strange had to jump start the events in motion so that Ant-Man was in the quantum realm when Thanos did the snap. 3 seconds later and Ant-Man would have been out, and he had to be trapped in the quantum realm so he could realize time travel as a solution and relay the idea to the Avengers. If the snap occurred one more or one less second later, it might have taken the rat that wandered over the keyboard too. I think the snap had to occur at that second.
My favorite nitpick is Valkyrie bringing her horse into battle, like it was parked next to her home in New Asgard the entire time.
That only kind of makes sense though, like I said in that it puts them on the right path to a possible victory, I mean when you think as I said every choice can create a possible future, just the US alone with half it's population is over 150m people, making choices every day creating new possibilities, that Strange with such limited variations seen cannot predict the future in such a way that it makes sense, unless you alter it to scenarios, small events that do not amount to much change get ignored only the major events, such as Tony living and Scott being trapped in the quantum realm, I personally feel the rat bringing him back was a stupid choice, it makes this whole thing seem so much less likely imo.
Doesn't do anything to ruin the movie for me but it is something if you put too much thought into it becomes less believable imo.
But yeah where did Valkyrie get that from exactly? but I mean she arrived with an army which included a squadron of wizards so I mean why wouldn't she have a flying horse?
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Post by damngumby on May 13, 2019 22:04:16 GMT
Lazy viewing on your part. I'm glad they didn't find it necessary to cater to the lowest common denominator and spoon feed every moron in the audience. But that's just me. Considering the widespread acclaim and stellar box office, the number of people who have difficulty understanding these MCU superhero movies is a very small minority. Even on this board, there are only two individuals who get confused at every turn. Everyone else gets it. Not to fret! With the likes of Aquaman and Shazam, it looks like DC is moving in the direction of catering to these folks.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on May 14, 2019 6:53:27 GMT
Negates the ''past doesnt affect future'' timeline theory. iF cap was always pegys secret husband like writers are suggesting, then it becomes a closed loop paradox and contradicts Hulk when he says going into the past doesnt affect the present/future
Not necessarily true - just means that the entire MCU has played out on this branched timeline where old Cap came back from another timeline where Thanos was an identical problem!
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Post by DC-Fan on May 14, 2019 7:14:06 GMT
Negates the ''past doesnt affect future'' timeline theory. iF cap was always pegys secret husband like writers are suggesting, then it becomes a closed loop paradox and contradicts Hulk when he says going into the past doesnt affect the present/future
So I'm 100% correct when I say that the time travel in Endgame makes no sense at all.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 14, 2019 7:17:45 GMT
You should really learn the difference between plot hole and nitpicking. he watched the successful events of that timeline and then insured it would happen. So you're claiming that Doctor Strange, who was turned to dust, somehow ensured that 5 years after he turned to dust, a random mouse would step on the just the right button on the machine to free Ant-Man from the Quantum Realm? That's not ensuring the right scenario would happen. That's risking the entire universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening. And that's also really lazy and contrived writing.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 14, 2019 7:23:28 GMT
Clint just kept paying the bill so he could call her number and hear her voice on the voicemail, people do these sort of things. If he wanted to hear her voice, why didn't he just record it on a tape instead of continuing the pay the phone bill for 60 months? Makes no fucking sense at all. he saw best case options for each scenario which is why in the millions he saw he could only see 1 where they won, having seen that he see's the key elements to that scenario which force it to play out, such as Scott being locked in the quantum realm, Tony living and having a daughter, the big things alter that scenario not the small stuff, whether Tony lives or dies matters, whether he eats a PB&J or a pain au chocolat for breakfast on the morning of August 3rd, 2021 doesn't, it's still a risk but it's the only shot they had. And for that scenario to play out, a random mouse would have to step on just the right buttons on the machine to free Ant-Man from the Quantum Realm. Risking the fate of half the universe on what a random mouse is going to do 5 years in the future is just really lazy and contrived writing.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 7:23:41 GMT
he watched the successful events of that timeline and then insured it would happen. That's risking the entire universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening. 14,000,605 to 1
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Post by DC-Fan on May 14, 2019 7:49:36 GMT
That's risking the entire universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening. 14,000,605 to 1 That's the total number of different scenarios but not the odds of any 1 of those scenarios happening. Each scenario has different odds of happening. Some are more likely to happen and some are less likely to happen. It's similar to if you're playing Poker and you opponent has a Flush, how many ways can you get a better hand? Well, assuming there are no wild cards, you can get: 1. a higher Flush 2. a Full House 3. 4 of a Kind 4. a Straight Flush 5. a Royal Flush So there are 5 ways you can get a better hand. But not all 5 ways have the same 1 in 5 odds of happening. Obviously a higher Flush is more likely to happen than the other hands and a Royal Flush is less likely to happen than the other hands. A random mouse stepping on just the right buttons on the machine 5 years in the future is a random event with astronomical (much higher than 14,000,605 to 1) odds of happening. That's just really lazy and contrived and stupid writing to risk half the universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening.
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Post by dazz on May 14, 2019 7:50:25 GMT
Clint just kept paying the bill so he could call her number and hear her voice on the voicemail, people do these sort of things. If he wanted to hear her voice, why didn't he just record it on a tape instead of continuing the pay the phone bill for 60 months? Makes no fucking sense at all. he saw best case options for each scenario which is why in the millions he saw he could only see 1 where they won, having seen that he see's the key elements to that scenario which force it to play out, such as Scott being locked in the quantum realm, Tony living and having a daughter, the big things alter that scenario not the small stuff, whether Tony lives or dies matters, whether he eats a PB&J or a pain au chocolat for breakfast on the morning of August 3rd, 2021 doesn't, it's still a risk but it's the only shot they had. And for that scenario to play out, a random mouse would have to step on just the right buttons on the machine to free Ant-Man from the Quantum Realm. Risking the fate of half the universe on what a random mouse is going to do 5 years in the future is just really lazy and contrived writing. As per usual you ignore vital parts of what is said you stupid twat.
Clint possibly POSSIBLY mind you paying the phone bill for X amount of months isn't far fetched, sure he could record it but having her phone be active is also psychological in nature, it keeps a part of her around, it isn't just a recording he plays it's her phone, it's her voicemail, for all we know in such a scenario Clint confesses his feelings to her everyday when he calls it, it's not just a way to hear her voice but his way of talking to her, no different than people who talk to graves, it's a process that allows them to griev, and I also said that is just a possible reason the phone was active.
As for Dr Strange, no you moron you just do not get it, Strange in that explanation I gave is my best way of making sense of that situation because the one given in the films makes no sense, 100,000,000 timelines is but a fraction of the possible alternate paths that could be created in 5 years, and that's over half a dozen times larger than the amount of futures Strange saw, so there is no way that he saw every feasible future, so by turning it into endgame scenarios Strange seeing the best case versions of every possible scenario makes sense, as even if their are 2 trillion variations of any single distinct scenario it doesn't matter as he has seen the best case version of that and they still lose, Strange put them on the path of the one scenario that at it's optimum variance worked out, the only scenario that they win with, so yes it's not a certainty they would win but it lessens the odds, atleast that scenario has a winning outcome, also means that scenario could have multiple winning scenarios so long as key parts of it work out.
And not it's not lazy or contrived writing, it's silly, they could have achieved the same result without such a stupid set up, and it would take less effort also, you again use words you do not understand you fucking moron.
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Post by charzhino on May 14, 2019 9:43:53 GMT
Negates the ''past doesnt affect future'' timeline theory. iF cap was always pegys secret husband like writers are suggesting, then it becomes a closed loop paradox and contradicts Hulk when he says going into the past doesnt affect the present/future
So I'm 100% correct when I say that the time travel in Endgame makes no sense at all. You are right. Also the whole test run scene when Antman is being sent back and forward in time is also BS. How can the quantum field he gets sucked into cause his body to de-age on the cellular level so extremely that he ends up as a baby? Stark tried explaining it by saying its a EPR paradox and he fixes it by using a time GPS device but time cannot go backwards in quantum physics that you can ever end up younger than you started out. I suspect that scene was just in their for the cute laughs that baby antman would have gotten . And apparently they consulted real scientists lmao, No use explaining the time travel plot holes to mcu fanatics tho, they are in denial
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 14, 2019 11:58:36 GMT
he watched the successful events of that timeline and then insured it would happen. So you're claiming that Doctor Strange, who was turned to dust, somehow ensured that 5 years after he turned to dust, a random mouse would step on the just the right button on the machine to free Ant-Man from the Quantum Realm? That's not ensuring the right scenario would happen. That's risking the entire universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening. And that's also really lazy and contrived writing. That's what happened in that timeline. If you can't understand that, it's your problem, not the film's. Indeed. He saw over 14,000,000 scenarios play out and this was the only time they won. Are you suggesting he should've bet on a timeline where they failed?
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 3, 2019 18:33:43 GMT
If he wanted to hear her voice, why didn't he just record it on a tape instead of continuing the pay the phone bill for 60 months? Makes no fucking sense at all. And for that scenario to play out, a random mouse would have to step on just the right buttons on the machine to free Ant-Man from the Quantum Realm. Risking the fate of half the universe on what a random mouse is going to do 5 years in the future is just really lazy and contrived writing. As per usual you ignore vital parts of what is said you stupid twat.
Clint possibly POSSIBLY mind you paying the phone bill for X amount of months isn't far fetched, sure he could record it but having her phone be active is also psychological in nature, it keeps a part of her around, it isn't just a recording he plays it's her phone, it's her voicemail, for all we know in such a scenario Clint confesses his feelings to her everyday when he calls it, it's not just a way to hear her voice but his way of talking to her, no different than people who talk to graves, it's a process that allows them to griev, and I also said that is just a possible reason the phone was active.
Even if Clint was still paying the cell phone bill for 60 straight months so he could call the number and "talk" to his missing wife, he would probably keep the cell phone locked in a safe place. Why the fuck would he just leave the cell phone lying around in the same place for 5 years? Moreover, why the fuck would Clint's wife immediately call after she came back from the snap? She wouldn't have even known that she had been snapped out of existence or that 5 years had passed. From her perspective, it's just the same day as the day of Thanos' 1st snap and she wouldn't even been aware that there was any snap or that she didn't exist for 5 years. Same with Ned and Peter's classmates? Why the fuck did they act like they hadn't seen each other in 5 years. They wouldn't have even known that they had been snapped out of existence or that 5 years had passed. From their perspective, it's just the same day as the day of Thanos' 1st snap and they were all just together on the school bus the day before and they wouldn't even been aware that there was any snap or that they didn't exist for 5 years. Like I said, Endgame is just a convoluted and inconsistent mess that doesn't make any sense at all.
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Post by dazz on Jun 3, 2019 18:53:55 GMT
As per usual you ignore vital parts of what is said you stupid twat.
Clint possibly POSSIBLY mind you paying the phone bill for X amount of months isn't far fetched, sure he could record it but having her phone be active is also psychological in nature, it keeps a part of her around, it isn't just a recording he plays it's her phone, it's her voicemail, for all we know in such a scenario Clint confesses his feelings to her everyday when he calls it, it's not just a way to hear her voice but his way of talking to her, no different than people who talk to graves, it's a process that allows them to griev, and I also said that is just a possible reason the phone was active.
Even if Clint was still paying the cell phone bill for 60 straight months so he could call the number and "talk" to his missing wife, he would probably keep the cell phone locked in a safe place. Why the fuck would he just leave the cell phone lying around in the same place for 5 years? Moreover, why the fuck would Clint's wife immediately call after she came back from the snap? She wouldn't have even known that she had been snapped out of existence or that 5 years had passed. From her perspective, it's just the same day as the day of Thanos' 1st snap and she wouldn't even been aware that there was any snap or that she didn't exist for 5 years. Same with Ned and Peter's classmates? Why the fuck did they act like they hadn't seen each other in 5 years. They wouldn't have even known that they had been snapped out of existence or that 5 years had passed. From their perspective, it's just the same day as the day of Thanos' 1st snap and they were all just together on the school bus the day before and they wouldn't even been aware that there was any snap or that they didn't exist for 5 years. Like I said, Endgame is just a convoluted and inconsistent mess that doesn't make any sense at all. You are an idiot.
1: Who is to say Clint had access to the phone? he is paying the bill for it maybe, but the actual phone could have been snapped away if his wife had it on her, just like how everyones clothes also got dusted in the snap, so when she came back she would have the phone on her.
2: Almost everyone who got snapped away saw others being dusted or even themselves briefly, that's actually an interesting thing about the snap, it didn't just instantly make them vanish they turned to dust person by person, she probably watched her kids turn to dust before maybe seeing herself turn to dust or vice versa.
3: Who is to say they returned to the exact place they were when turned to dust, they may have all been brought back in different locations given how anyone in space or in planes or boats, trains or cars and such would rematerialize outside of their vehicle and likely die, not to mention the possibility of someone standing in the same location as that where someone was dusted meaning if they reformed in that spot they would be rematerializing inside another person.
4: Why wouldn't she contact Clint even if you discount her noticing the kids or herself being dusted, or reforming in a different location possibly, 1 major thing has changed and one minor thing may have changed, major change is to her Clint has just vanished, they were having a family picnic and all of a sudden he just vanished, minor thing is the weather could be castly different as could the look of the place they were at, it was bright and sunny but now could be dark and cloudy, it may now be raining, the trees may have grown or new tree's have been planted or any other such thing.
5: Do we know they don't recall anything from after they got dusted? maybe they existed consciously in another state of being so became aware of their situation? we don't know.
So yeah you are an idiot, so glad it took you 3 weeks to try come up with that pile of horse shit you numpty.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 3, 2019 19:06:51 GMT
Even if Clint was still paying the cell phone bill for 60 straight months so he could call the number and "talk" to his missing wife, he would probably keep the cell phone locked in a safe place. Why the fuck would he just leave the cell phone lying around in the same place for 5 years? Moreover, why the fuck would Clint's wife immediately call after she came back from the snap? She wouldn't have even known that she had been snapped out of existence or that 5 years had passed. From her perspective, it's just the same day as the day of Thanos' 1st snap and she wouldn't even been aware that there was any snap or that she didn't exist for 5 years. Same with Ned and Peter's classmates? Why the fuck did they act like they hadn't seen each other in 5 years. They wouldn't have even known that they had been snapped out of existence or that 5 years had passed. From their perspective, it's just the same day as the day of Thanos' 1st snap and they were all just together on the school bus the day before and they wouldn't even been aware that there was any snap or that they didn't exist for 5 years. Like I said, Endgame is just a convoluted and inconsistent mess that doesn't make any sense at all. Do we know they don't recall anything from after they got dusted? maybe they existed consciously in another state of being so became aware of their situation?
So basically the snap sent them to a Phantom Zone? So MCU ripped off DC again.
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Post by dazz on Jun 3, 2019 19:44:42 GMT
Do we know they don't recall anything from after they got dusted? maybe they existed consciously in another state of being so became aware of their situation?
So basically the snap sent them to a Phantom Zone? So MCU ripped off DC again. Nope that's just how your handicapped mind "thinks", could be more like ascension in the Stargate universe, or being a higher power ala the PTB or Wolfram & Hart in the Buffy/Angelverse, or something similar to the Force from SW where dead Jedi can still observe and interact with the living through the force.
You know not everything is a rip off from another comic company you pleb.
Also it doesn't count as ripping something off if you put your own spin onto it or if it's basically become a trope at this point, by your logic DC ripped off a lot of their material from other places also, so why not just shut yah fucking trap you dingbat?
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Post by blockbusted on Jun 3, 2019 20:01:13 GMT
Its a cop out explanation. "Who knows which scenario is right" Lazy writing Lazy viewing on your part. I'm glad they didn't find it necessary to cater to the lowest common denominator and spoon feed every moron in the audience. But that's just me. I've finally figured it out, MCU movies are too complex for your taste. I could recommend some great educational cartoons my 4 year old son watches on PBS every morning. He thinks 'X-Men: The Last Stand' is better than 'Avengers: Endgame'. I don't think he will able to understand those educational cartoons on PBS.
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