blade
Junior Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
@blade
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 636
|
Post by blade on Mar 5, 2017 23:35:51 GMT
There are good reasons why gays shouldn't marry, for practicing Christians.
Pardon me, I was sloppy with my wording; I actually meant nobody has given any good reason to prevent other people from getting gay married. If you're a christian and believe gay marriage is sinful or against god's wishes or whatever, then by all means that's a great reason for YOU to not get gay married. But legislating to require other people to follow the tenets of your religion would, of course, be a disgusting thing to do. So your previous claim was wrong. Thanks for admitting that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 23:42:18 GMT
Pardon me, I was sloppy with my wording; I actually meant nobody has given any good reason to prevent other people from getting gay married. If you're a christian and believe gay marriage is sinful or against god's wishes or whatever, then by all means that's a great reason for YOU to not get gay married. But legislating to require other people to follow the tenets of your religion would, of course, be a disgusting thing to do. So your previous claim was wrong. Thanks for admitting that. Yes it was, and you're quite welcome. It's good for me, too, as I now have an improved and better claim. Which you apparently have no answer to. So yay me. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
blade
Junior Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
@blade
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 636
|
Post by blade on Mar 5, 2017 23:46:24 GMT
So your previous claim was wrong. Thanks for admitting that. Yes it was, and you're quite welcome. It's good for me, too, as I now have an improved and better claim. Which you apparently have no answer to. So yay me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 0:49:39 GMT
So all these pages in, and there's still no cohesive argument or true rational debate to simply explain reason. No name calling and lashing out, no attacks and verbal abuse, no kindergarten whiney pouting,...but a sincere, honest explanation.
I'm sincerely curious why there is so much heated interest in trying to make other people, total strangers, conform to your ideas. Again, if you are against gay marriage, and you're gay, it's easy, don't get married. No one is forcing you.
But why must you feel compelled to make people you don't know follow your rules? What makes you think "your way" is the "only way"?
What is the inherent wrong with you live your life, and they live their lives? You know the saying: Do no harm?
|
|
j2
Sophomore
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
@j2
Posts: 628
Likes: 149
![](http://storage.proboards.com/6692551/images/CTEdkGf0wmfSETIzYiXk.gif)
|
Post by j2 on Mar 6, 2017 8:59:16 GMT
So all these pages in, and there's still no cohesive argument or true rational debate to simply explain reason. No name calling and lashing out, no attacks and verbal abuse, no kindergarten whiney pouting,...but a sincere, honest explanation. I'm sincerely curious why there is so much heated interest in trying to make other people, total strangers, conform to your ideas. Again, if you are against gay marriage, and you're gay, it's easy, don't get married. No one is forcing you. But why must you feel compelled to make people you don't know follow your rules? What makes you think "your way" is the "only way"? What is the inherent wrong with you live your life, and they live their lives? You know the saying: Do no harm? If you can control your emotions, let's have a cohesive argument, you and I, since "nobody" seems to be replying to your comments. If you have read through the threads you should know clearly where I stand regarding 'homosexuality': I must reject it. Where do you stand? (to be answered first) With that answered, I'll give you the starting point so ask your first question to me clearly. I say we should address each point exclusively until it is cleared up completely, in order to ensure cohesion for the conversation, before moving forward to any next point. We can carry out the conversation for as long as necessary until there's nothing more to discuss or until any one of us decides to stop it for any reason. No 'winning', no 'losing'. Agree? If you do, go ahead and start. ONE single clear point for discussion. Question? EDIT: WAIT, is it me or were there over 70 pages of discussion here? Are posts being deleted? If so, I'm not wasting time. Cheers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 17:43:53 GMT
Where I stand with regards to homosexuality is irrespective of my ability to carry on a discussion. Much like asking a lawyer what their personal stance is re: the issue at hand. Irrelevant. I've seen so many words and emotions thrown back and forth, but true,...no discourse.
My curiosity remains, and I'd like to know specific reasons why those who are opposing gay marriage feel the need to inflict their personal lifestyle or religious beliefs or personal opinions regarding "normalcy" onto other people, especially people whose lives have nothing to do with you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 17:48:25 GMT
I don't mind as long as it's illegal for them to.
|
|
|
Post by phludowin on Mar 6, 2017 18:02:46 GMT
This: "gay" has been in use for "homosexual" since the late 19th century. So nobody living today has tried to redefine that word. The use of "asexual" in the sense of "lacking sexual desire" is relatively recent; but language evolves, and if a majority of people are ok with using this word in that sense, that's how it happens. After all, 30 years ago, nobody would have thought of the Internet when using the word "web". And I have yet to meet a person who uses "moral" and "immoral" as synonyms. Unless you can provide evidence that someone does, this part really is "nonsense". From your point of view surely it may be that way, and truly it is "nonsense" to you, quotation marks included. However, the truth of it does not change. I could 'debate' and discuss each of those 'points' you try to make but it would only just go on a vicious cycle of repetition, where you will choose to see things the way you want to see them anyway (because they 'suit' you), rather than how they really are. For example, the word 'gay' meaning 'homosexual' was NOT used since the "late 19th century" as you say that it was. Rather, it is an opinion expressed by a homosexual scholar, which is an opinion refuted by data and by other experts in the field. And when you say: I wonder if you THINK that I tried to imply those two words are or can be synonyms, because I didn't. So in this part, may I point out that this is your 'nonsense'? Or maybe you tried to mean something else? Your words have no strength. About the usage of "gay": I googled a bit more; and apparently it became widely used for homosexual after WW2. That's evolution of language at work. So maybe I got the time wrong, but a "redefinition" of a word doesn't work without the majority of language users being ok with it. About moral abd immoral: I am assuming that you were insinuating that some people are trying to redefine what was once "immoral" as "moral". Guess what? Not only language evolves, society does too. In former times it might have been moral to sell your children into slavery, or beat them up. And marriage was exclusively between males and females. Times change. Deal with it.
|
|
j2
Sophomore
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
@j2
Posts: 628
Likes: 149
![](http://storage.proboards.com/6692551/images/CTEdkGf0wmfSETIzYiXk.gif)
|
Post by j2 on Mar 6, 2017 18:20:06 GMT
Where I stand with regards to homosexuality is irrespective of my ability to carry on a discussion. Much like asking a lawyer what their personal stance is re: the issue at hand. Irrelevant. Actually it is very relevant because it adds to clarity. Speaking of lawyers, there's a reason why juries are carefully selected before a trial. And in this case you're not a lawyer either; you're an individual. But okay anyway, from your words it sounds clear that you stand by homosexuality; I just wanted you to make it clear with your own words. No problem with that for a discussion, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing stops you now then, so let's go. And speaking of 'emotions' being thrown back and forth, does that include the 'emotions'/fits of rage of homosexuals here when they have seen yet again that there are those (including me) who reject their practices strongly and don't care to agree with them? If you really wanted to know it then you would be ready to discuss it and to consider it. You now have a chance and you're not quick to action to take it. Instead, what you say about these things doesn't sound clear to me, and it does seem to be 'loaded' with expressions which of course go hand in hand with (the support for) homosexuality. Therefore, based on what you say now I say there is something not genuine about your concern.
|
|
|
Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 6, 2017 18:23:08 GMT
Where I stand with regards to homosexuality is irrespective of my ability to carry on a discussion. Much like asking a lawyer what their personal stance is re: the issue at hand. Irrelevant. I've seen so many words and emotions thrown back and forth, but true,...no discourse. My curiosity remains, and I'd like to know specific reasons why those who are opposing gay marriage feel the need to inflict their personal lifestyle or religious beliefs or personal opinions regarding "normalcy" onto other people, especially people whose lives have nothing to do with you. There always a sense of power at laying claim to moral authority. And certainly a delicious sense of gratification in exercising power over others.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 18:48:12 GMT
Something not genuine about my "concern"? I'm perhaps expressing trepidations, because I'm new here and I don't know you, and because we haven't engaged in discourse directly. Patience and some experience over time, that's all. It's all good.
I expressed a "curiosity," plain and simple. It's not more complicated than that. It's a pretty straight forward and direct question that is still being danced around because no one really has an answer except "because I said so."
I am not a lawyer, and I am not on a jury. I am making an analogy with regards to qualification to engage in dialogue.
So once again, why do you care so much about what strangers do? Why do you feel the need to impose a law restricting others from something that doesn't involve you? If you personally don't like it, don't do it. Why does this debate get so complicated?
|
|
|
Post by Edward-Elizabeth-Hitler on Mar 6, 2017 18:51:01 GMT
I don't mind as long as it's illegal for them to. Do you hope the SCOTUS overrules its previous decision then?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 18:54:39 GMT
Where I stand with regards to homosexuality is irrespective of my ability to carry on a discussion. Much like asking a lawyer what their personal stance is re: the issue at hand. Irrelevant. I've seen so many words and emotions thrown back and forth, but true,...no discourse. My curiosity remains, and I'd like to know specific reasons why those who are opposing gay marriage feel the need to inflict their personal lifestyle or religious beliefs or personal opinions regarding "normalcy" onto other people, especially people whose lives have nothing to do with you. There always a sense of power at laying claim to moral authority. And certainly a delicious sense of gratification in exercising power over others. Hmm, okay. Please explain this delicious sense of gratification in exercising power over others? I think this is more along the lines of what I'm guessing goes through people's minds, this need to control others, to force others to suffer and do without. The "right" vs. "privilege" debate too. I think some people find it empowering to punish others, kind of like bullies?
|
|
|
Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 6, 2017 19:05:02 GMT
I'm certain there are studies that could do a far superior job of that than I could - I'm simply speaking to a dynamic we know exists in our species. There's certainly a certain glee is labeling homosexuals "perversions" and what-not here - many people enjoy a sense of superiority, and they enjoy power even more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 19:32:56 GMT
I'm certain there are studies that could do a far superior job of that than I could - I'm simply speaking to a dynamic we know exists in our species. There's certainly a certain glee is labeling homosexuals "perversions" and what-not here - many people enjoy a sense of superiority, and they enjoy power even more. See, I'm thinking that this is more along the lines of what's going on actually. Because if you live in CA and a gay couple in MA want to get married, what difference does it make, right? But once you start being able to personalize it, to see the reaping of what discord you've sown type of thing, there's a vicarious sense of achievement (if that makes sense). It reminds me of how bullies treat others,... I also wonder if some of it has to do with one's questioning their own sexuality and the whole "thou protest too much" deal...
|
|
|
Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 6, 2017 19:38:31 GMT
Given the incidents of outspoken politicians who stand against homosexual rights being caught themselves in compromising homosexual positions, I'm sure there's some of that in there, though I think it's dangerous to ascribe it over-all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 23:17:26 GMT
Should I take it as an insult or a compliment that Ahwina thinks i'm american? I have no idea...*scratching my head* Do you consider yourself clever for writing "Ahwina"?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 23:18:10 GMT
What questions? And don't call me "honey", please thanks in advance. You are an American who is living in Sweden, not a Swede.
Tyvärr för dig så är jag 100% viking. Backatcha, smartass.
|
|
|
Post by yezziqa on Mar 6, 2017 23:33:25 GMT
Should I take it as an insult or a compliment that Ahwina thinks i'm american? I have no idea...*scratching my head* Do you consider yourself clever for writing "Ahwina"? Why wouldn't I call her that when it was what she called herself at the time? Or should I have a crystal ball according to you?
|
|
|
Post by yezziqa on Mar 6, 2017 23:34:41 GMT
Tyvärr för dig så är jag 100% viking. Backatcha, smartass. That makes no sense.
|
|