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Post by kuatorises on Jul 24, 2019 15:24:43 GMT
We all know that he's going to come back, because they will have their own TV show. This is bound to involve some kind of time travel or tampering with the multi-verse. Plus, we know Dr. Strange's next movie will involve the multi-verse as well. Wanda is going to break some rules to bring him back.
Does anyone else absolutely despise her complete and utter disregard for anything other than herself?
I am also wondering if her actions will play a role in the creation of mutants. Kind of like a reverse of the House of M.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 24, 2019 15:36:30 GMT
I mostly just think it’s baffling that she brainwashed the Hulk into going on a rampage in a city, yet faced zero repercussions for it. You’d think that would’ve at least have been addressed in CW, but nope.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 24, 2019 15:45:31 GMT
I mostly just think it’s baffling that she brainwashed the Hulk into going on a rampage in a city, yet faced zero repercussions for it. You’d think that would’ve at least have been addressed in CW, but nope. She's gotten away with everything she's ever done from the time she appeared on screen. First she was working for the bad guys, which included brainwashing the Hulk and helping Ultron. Then she accidentally killed some civilians in Civil War. I get that it's supposed to be an accident, but when coupled with everything else she's ever done, you can't ignore it. Then after essentially being forgiven for every crime she's ever committed with not even so much as a slap on the wrist, she turns againt the very government that gave her a break. And you know that when she breaks the laws of space and time to bring back the Vision, there is no way it's going to be clean-cut. There's going to be some kind of fallout as a result.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 16:08:15 GMT
I mostly just think it’s baffling that she brainwashed the Hulk into going on a rampage in a city, yet faced zero repercussions for it. You’d think that would’ve at least have been addressed in CW, but nope. If I'd managed to press her into my service as a government or collective of governments, I'd give her full immunity on the Hulk fiasco. Johannesburg was a tragedy but, in the big picture, it's just one city. She's too valuable as a weapon in the right hands.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 16:23:25 GMT
We all know that he's going to come back, because they will have their own TV show. This is bound to involve some kind of time travel or tampering with the multi-verse. Plus, we know Dr. Strange's next movie will involve the multi-verse as well. Wanda is going to break some rules to bring him back.
Does anyone else absolutely despise her complete and utter disregard for anything other than herself?
I am also wondering if her actions will play a role in the creation of mutants. Kind of like a reverse of the House of M.
I have many complaints about Wanda, but her personality and motivations aren't one of them. I kind of like the idea that she isn't like most of the other heroes of the MCU who are tied to a specific cause, an institution, or a vague sense of moral duty. Wanda seems to care only about herself and the people close to her. That makes sense to me, given her background. My complaints about MCU Wanda are carryovers from the comic books and revolve around an ill-defined powerset. Is she a magic practitioner, a mutant, or some hybrid of the two? The magical side of her powers appears to let her directly manipulate objects in the physical world via some form of exotic energy. The mutant side of her skillset seems to allow her to warp reality (via probability fields). I hope WandaVision clears up what she can do and how exactly she does it.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 24, 2019 16:23:34 GMT
I mostly just think it’s baffling that she brainwashed the Hulk into going on a rampage in a city, yet faced zero repercussions for it. You’d think that would’ve at least have been addressed in CW, but nope. MCU never addresses the consequences or has repercussions for the criminal actions of the so-called "heroes". Bucky murdered 2 civilians and Steve Rogers aided and abetted him to flee from the law, but they're forgiven without any repercussions. Basically, in MCU there's no such thing as justice for innocent victims.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 16:36:54 GMT
I mostly just think it’s baffling that she brainwashed the Hulk into going on a rampage in a city, yet faced zero repercussions for it. You’d think that would’ve at least have been addressed in CW, but nope. MCU never addresses the consequences or has repercussions for the criminal actions of the so-called "heroes". Bucky murdered 2 civilians and Steve Rogers aided and abetted him to flee from the law, but they're forgiven without any repercussions. Basically, in MCU there's no such thing as justice for innocent victims.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 24, 2019 16:52:31 GMT
MCU never addresses the consequences or has repercussions for the criminal actions of the so-called "heroes". Bucky murdered 2 civilians and Steve Rogers aided and abetted him to flee from the law, but they're forgiven without any repercussions. Basically, in MCU there's no such thing as justice for innocent victims. Wrong board. This is the MCU board and this is a thread about an MCU character. Why are you always bringing DC into this MCU board and trying to start an MCU vs DC war?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 16:56:20 GMT
Wrong board. This is the MCU board and this is a thread about an MCU character. Why are you always bringing DC into this MCU board and trying to start an MCU vs DC war? I'll trade you my wrong board for your wrong topic. Your response had little to do with Wanda or your dislike for her per the topic question. Let's both try to stay on point, for the good of electrocuted law enforcement officers everywhere.
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Post by pk9 on Jul 24, 2019 17:20:49 GMT
I mostly just think it’s baffling that she brainwashed the Hulk into going on a rampage in a city, yet faced zero repercussions for it. You’d think that would’ve at least have been addressed in CW, but nope. MCU never addresses the consequences or has repercussions for the criminal actions of the so-called "heroes". Bucky murdered 2 civilians and Steve Rogers aided and abetted him to flee from the law, but they're forgiven without any repercussions. Basically, in MCU there's no such thing as justice for innocent victims. Let's not forget one of the original Avengers also started out working for the bad guys, to the point where SHIELD sent Hawkeye to kill her. But it's glossed over with a single "he made a different call" line.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 24, 2019 17:33:47 GMT
We all know that he's going to come back, because they will have their own TV show. This is bound to involve some kind of time travel or tampering with the multi-verse. Plus, we know Dr. Strange's next movie will involve the multi-verse as well. Wanda is going to break some rules to bring him back.
Does anyone else absolutely despise her complete and utter disregard for anything other than herself?
I am also wondering if her actions will play a role in the creation of mutants. Kind of like a reverse of the House of M.
I have many complaints about Wanda, but her personality and motivations aren't one of them. I kind of like the idea that she isn't like most of the other heroes of the MCU who are tied to a specific cause, an institution, or a vague sense of moral duty. Wanda seems to care only about herself and the people close to her. That makes sense to me, given her background. My complaints about MCU Wanda are carryovers from the comic books and revolve around an ill-defined powerset. Is she a magic practitioner, a mutant, or some hybrid of the two? The magical side of her powers appears to let her directly manipulate objects in the physical world via some form of exotic energy. The mutant side of her skillset seems to allow her to warp reality (via probability fields). I hope WandaVision clears up what she can do and how exactly she does it. I got to be honest, I'm not really sure what there is to like about that. Like what? Her not giving a shit about anything or anyone? Admirable trait in a villain, sure. Absolutely, in fact.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 24, 2019 17:50:26 GMT
I mostly just think it’s baffling that she brainwashed the Hulk into going on a rampage in a city, yet faced zero repercussions for it. You’d think that would’ve at least have been addressed in CW, but nope. If I'd managed to press her into my service as a government or collective of governments, I'd give her full immunity on the Hulk fiasco. Johannesburg was a tragedy but, in the big picture, it's just one city. She's too valuable as a weapon in the right hands. Hulk...pass. Johannesburg...pass.
Ultron....pass. Betraying the government that cut a deal with her...pass.
Come on, bro.
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Post by politicidal on Jul 24, 2019 17:54:22 GMT
The anti-Sokovian sentiment on this board must end.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 19:03:57 GMT
Not particularly. She grew on me, especially after losing her accent and brother
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 20:05:53 GMT
I have many complaints about Wanda, but her personality and motivations aren't one of them. I kind of like the idea that she isn't like most of the other heroes of the MCU who are tied to a specific cause, an institution, or a vague sense of moral duty. Wanda seems to care only about herself and the people close to her. That makes sense to me, given her background. My complaints about MCU Wanda are carryovers from the comic books and revolve around an ill-defined powerset. Is she a magic practitioner, a mutant, or some hybrid of the two? The magical side of her powers appears to let her directly manipulate objects in the physical world via some form of exotic energy. The mutant side of her skillset seems to allow her to warp reality (via probability fields). I hope WandaVision clears up what she can do and how exactly she does it. I got to be honest, I'm not really sure what there is to like about that. Like what? Her not giving a shit about anything or anyone? Admirable trait in a villain, sure. Absolutely, in fact. That's fair and it's also admirable of you. I happen to appreciate the selfish aspect of Wanda's character as a differentiating trait from her colleagues. To be clear, I don't admire that as a quality in people in real life. It just makes sense to me on some level that not all costumed adventurers would share the same code or be unyieldingly selfless. This is a very stimulating conversation, by the way. Ethics and Morality were minors for me during my early undergrad years.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 20:23:53 GMT
If I'd managed to press her into my service as a government or collective of governments, I'd give her full immunity on the Hulk fiasco. Johannesburg was a tragedy but, in the big picture, it's just one city. She's too valuable as a weapon in the right hands. Hulk...pass. Johannesburg...pass.
Ultron....pass. Betraying the government that cut a deal with her...pass.
Come on, bro.
Having worked on the periphery of law enforcement for a time, I think it might surprise you just how much can be forgiven if an individual or institution has strategic value that outweighs their past crimes. I see how this might be troubling as you seem to hold these characters to a much higher standard.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 25, 2019 12:56:44 GMT
Hulk...pass. Johannesburg...pass.
Ultron....pass. Betraying the government that cut a deal with her...pass.
Come on, bro.
Having worked on the periphery of law enforcement for a time, I think it might surprise you just how much can be forgiven if an individual or institution has strategic value that outweighs their past crimes. I see how this might be troubling as you seem to hold these characters to a much higher standard. I'm fully aware of the deals that go on in both law enforcement and government, but all you're doing is excusing her actions. There's zero accountability coming from your end. ZERO. If she's that damn valuable, which she really wasn't when it came down to defeating Thanos, throw her in cush house (like Tony did in Civil War) and only let her out when needed. It's not that hard to show some degree of objectivity about her actions.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 25, 2019 13:19:36 GMT
MCU never addresses the consequences or has repercussions for the criminal actions of the so-called "heroes". Bucky murdered 2 civilians and Steve Rogers aided and abetted him to flee from the law, but they're forgiven without any repercussions. Basically, in MCU there's no such thing as justice for innocent victims. It’s called collateral damaged...there’s no justice in the real world for this...why should there be in a fantasy one. But seriouly, Wanda, Bucky, etc, are often acting against their will via external forces. Bucky as the Winter Soldier is programmed to kill. Wanda was taken as a child and trained to use her mutant forces for evil purposes. But in due course they are redeemed. And everybody loves a saved sinner.* The Marvel characters who do get punished are Thor, Tony Stark, etc. Thor is directly punish per the code of his people. Tony Stark indirectly gives his life in the final episode. This fits considering his dark past as an amoral arms dealer who brought destruction to world before he discovered his Ironman. Stark’s great fortune is due to the military-industrial complex. *What is Trump’s cache among the Evangelicals who support him? He claims to be a man who after leading a corrupt and debauched life has found the light and is now a Christian. What an absolute load of shit. Tony deserves to die, but poor poor Wanda and Bucky deserve to be free! LOL, get out of here with that nonsense.
Oh, and for the record Baron Von Strucker was arrested in the beginning of Age of Ultron; meaning everything Wanda did she chose to do.
Your (extremely biased) political beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 25, 2019 13:22:03 GMT
MCU never addresses the consequences or has repercussions for the criminal actions of the so-called "heroes". Bucky murdered 2 civilians and Steve Rogers aided and abetted him to flee from the law, but they're forgiven without any repercussions. Basically, in MCU there's no such thing as justice for innocent victims. Let's not forget one of the original Avengers also started out working for the bad guys, to the point where SHIELD sent Hawkeye to kill her. But it's glossed over with a single "he made a different call" line. I don't know if it's Scarlett Johanson's performance or the character herself, but I don't particularly like Natasha. However, at the very least she has showed remorse for her past, which was handled wonderfully Endgame. Wanda doesn't even show a 1/100000000th of the regret Natasha does.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 25, 2019 15:17:18 GMT
Having worked on the periphery of law enforcement for a time, I think it might surprise you just how much can be forgiven if an individual or institution has strategic value that outweighs their past crimes. I see how this might be troubling as you seem to hold these characters to a much higher standard. I'm fully aware of the deals that go on in both law enforcement and government, but all you're doing is excusing her actions. There's zero accountability coming from your end. ZERO. If she's that damn valuable, which she really wasn't when it came down to defeating Thanos, throw her in cush house (like Tony did in Civil War) and only let her out when needed. It's not that hard to show some degree of objectivity about her actions. I am neither excusing nor defending Wanda's actions. I'm merely theorizing on why they might have gone unpunished. And within that framework, I can happily admit that my rationale is a stretch. This is a hobby, I don't hang my reputation on these message board posts. I understand that Wanda's failure to be punished for her actions is a sticking point for you, but it isn't for me. I hope that's alright with you as I certainly wouldn't ask you to live up to my expectations. When you read comic books, it's customary for some characters to go unpunished or even unreprimanded for what we would consider to be atrocities in real life. Wanda's comic book counterpart is arguably equally as rash, destructive, and as self absorbed as her MCU sister. She frequently becomes emotional and destroys things and people. She is perhaps best known for perpetrating a near genocide against her own species in the comics with little or nothing happening in the way of repercussions. She also dropped a mountain on a man who would not aid in the resurrection of her husband. The Hulk is known for destroying continents and entire planets in the comics so, a city rampage may fail to register as acutely as it should for the seasoned comic book reader. I admit there's video-game violence type desensitization going in that respect. This isn't a justification so much as it is an explanation. It doesn't matter to me whether or not Wanda is made to pay for her crimes in the MCU. If she were sent to prison for the sake of verisimilitude, that would inevitably gum up the works in terms of pure genre and story mechanics. Wanda can't participate in a meaningful way in the story if she's incarcerated. If you're insinuating that she's owed some more karmic comeuppance, that's entirely outside of my scope. I believe a more practical (if not fitting) punishment, if one is called for, would be for her to be pressed into service rather than languish in a cell. I don't think it's worth the literary overhead incurred to simulate the complexities of real-world justice and morality in a fantastical setting. I leave that type of thinking to folks like DC-Fan. Again, great conversation.
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