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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 14, 2017 4:18:38 GMT
I've already made a thread where I expressed my problems with the character, so I'll avoid doing that again here. I don't want to beat a dead horse after all. That being said, can I get some explanations as to why people like her so much? Why do her comics sell so well, and why do so many people dress up as her for Halloween?
I just could never grasp what makes her so popular. Is it because of nostalgia for Batman: The Animated Series? Is it because people think she's hot? It's just a huge mystery to me. Even when I watched B:TAS as a kid, I couldn't stand her, and kind of thought she made the Joker less scary.
I just wanted an explanation for this once and for all, given that WB is now trying to capitalize on her popularity more than ever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 13:40:42 GMT
Margot Robbie is bae.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 14, 2017 20:41:14 GMT
Even before Margot Robbie...
Excluding the Joker stuff, Harley Quinn pretty much does whatever she wants. And that skyrocketed after she separated herself from the Joker. Harley Quinn is just... fun.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 14, 2017 22:07:15 GMT
The Joker stuff was what pretty much defined her character though. Sure, she also had her friendship/romance with Poison Ivy, but that was secondary to her being the Joker's sidekick/girlfriend.
I just don't see what's so fun about her character. Her entire purpose for existing comes off as rather misogynistic, and I just don't like the idea of making the Joker a domestic abuser. It's too predictable for someone like him.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 15, 2017 15:00:37 GMT
I think it's exactly all that in a twisted cocktail courtesy of Axis Chemical. Nostalgia from Batman: TAS, her sex appeal, and the 'bad girl' image which some view as either an intriguing breakaway from more wholesome forms of femininity in comic books or an excuse to indulge their sick fantasies.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Apr 17, 2017 18:35:48 GMT
Fuck if I know. Never saw the appeal.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 17, 2017 20:29:26 GMT
The Joker stuff was what pretty much defined her character though. Sure, she also had her friendship/romance with Poison Ivy, but that was secondary to her being the Joker's sidekick/girlfriend. I just don't see what's so fun about her character. Her entire purpose for existing comes off as rather misogynistic, and I just don't like the idea of making the Joker a domestic abuser. It's too predictable for someone like him. But that's the thing, she's an abused wife until they take her away from Joker. When she's on her own, having fun, she's a wild card character. It's like they bring the Joker in, or just mention him, to remind people who Harley is and was. She was only the Joker's sidekick/girlfriend until Mad Love. When he backstory hit, she was elevated. That backstory made her identifiable. She became that survivor of abuse the same way that Oracle is that character for the handicapped. Many people can identify with still loving that abuser. And Joker is more than just a domestic abuser. He doesn't even see himself that way. He probably doesn't see Harley as a girlfriend or even a person. More as a plaything. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 17, 2017 20:47:25 GMT
The Joker stuff was what pretty much defined her character though. Sure, she also had her friendship/romance with Poison Ivy, but that was secondary to her being the Joker's sidekick/girlfriend. I just don't see what's so fun about her character. Her entire purpose for existing comes off as rather misogynistic, and I just don't like the idea of making the Joker a domestic abuser. It's too predictable for someone like him. But that's the thing, she's an abused wife until they take her away from Joker. When she's on her own, having fun, she's a wild card character. It's like they bring the Joker in, or just mention him, to remind people who Harley is and was. She was only the Joker's sidekick/girlfriend until Mad Love. When he backstory hit, she was elevated. That backstory made her identifiable. She became that survivor of abuse the same way that Oracle is that character for the handicapped. Many people can identify with still loving that abuser. And Joker is more than just a domestic abuser. He doesn't even see himself that way. He probably doesn't see Harley as a girlfriend or even a person. More as a plaything. I imagine that most real life domestic abusers probably don't see themselves as such either. To me, making the Joker the abusive boyfriend to a woman with Stockholm syndrome is like establishing that Lex Luther kicks puppies in his spare time. We know he's evil, so why do we need him to do something as predictable and cliché as that? Regarding Harley being "identifiable", I think that actually does a disservice to people who really do suffer from abusive relationships. Harley Quinn is a goofy murderer who acts like a complete ditz. Even her background as a psychiatrist was a fraud, since the original 'Mad Love' comic established that she only got as far as she did in life because she bribed her professors with sex. Why would anyone identify with that? |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 17, 2017 22:21:18 GMT
But that's the thing, she's an abused wife until they take her away from Joker. When she's on her own, having fun, she's a wild card character. It's like they bring the Joker in, or just mention him, to remind people who Harley is and was. She was only the Joker's sidekick/girlfriend until Mad Love. When he backstory hit, she was elevated. That backstory made her identifiable. She became that survivor of abuse the same way that Oracle is that character for the handicapped. Many people can identify with still loving that abuser. And Joker is more than just a domestic abuser. He doesn't even see himself that way. He probably doesn't see Harley as a girlfriend or even a person. More as a plaything. I imagine that most real life domestic abusers probably don't see themselves as such either. To me, making the Joker the abusive boyfriend to a woman with Stockholm syndrome is like establishing that Lex Luther kicks puppies in his spare time. We know he's evil, so why do we need him to do something as predictable and cliché as that? Regarding Harley being "identifiable", I think that actually does a disservice to people who really do suffer from abusive relationships. Harley Quinn is a goofy murderer who acts like a complete ditz. Even her background as a psychiatrist was a fraud, since the original 'Mad Love' comic established that she only got as far as she did in life because she bribed her professors with sex. Why would anyone identify with that? But real life abusers see it as loving the person. The Joker doesn't love Harley. Like I said, he sees her as a thing to play with and discard whenever. And making Joker like that is a part of who he is. He does the same thing to Batman. Hell, you can even say that Joker is to Batman what Harley is to the Joker. Look how sad he gets when he thinks that Batman is dead. Her being a goofy, murdering ditz is a part of her character and theme. It's what's underneath that that people identify with. The woman that loves this man that abuses her. That wants to get away, but sees what he does to her as love and comes back to him. There has been plenty of times that Harley got so pissed at the Joker for what he did to her that she left him. Dude will do something Jokerish (something she sees as funny) and she'll jump back into Puddin's arms. And guess what? Everyone around them will look at each other like "WTF?" |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 17, 2017 22:35:30 GMT
I imagine that most real life domestic abusers probably don't see themselves as such either. To me, making the Joker the abusive boyfriend to a woman with Stockholm syndrome is like establishing that Lex Luther kicks puppies in his spare time. We know he's evil, so why do we need him to do something as predictable and cliché as that? Regarding Harley being "identifiable", I think that actually does a disservice to people who really do suffer from abusive relationships. Harley Quinn is a goofy murderer who acts like a complete ditz. Even her background as a psychiatrist was a fraud, since the original 'Mad Love' comic established that she only got as far as she did in life because she bribed her professors with sex. Why would anyone identify with that? But real life abusers see it as loving the person. The Joker doesn't love Harley. Like I said, he sees her as a thing to play with and discard whenever. And making Joker like that is a part of who he is. He does the same thing to Batman. Hell, you can even say that Joker is to Batman what Harley is to the Joker. Look how sad he gets when he thinks that Batman is dead. Her being a goofy, murdering ditz is a part of her character and theme. It's what's underneath that that people identify with. The woman that loves this man that abuses her. That wants to get away, but sees what he does to her as love and comes back to him. There has been plenty of times that Harley got so pissed at the Joker for what he did to her that she left him. Dude will do something Jokerish (something she sees as funny) and she'll jump back into Puddin's arms. And guess what? Everyone around them will look at each other like "WTF?" If we're talking about the DCAU, then the Joker hates Batman's guts and wants nothing more than to kill him personally, but that's besides the point. I don't really see why we need that kind of story with the Joker. The Joker isn't the kind of character who anyone should be in love with. It just comes off as bizarre and sexist to give him of all people a trophy wife. Portraying a female character as a ditz who loves the most blatant psychopath in Batman's entire rogue's gallery doesn't seem right. The Joker shouldn't be portrayed as a charming manipulator, and I don't see why he would keep someone like Harley around in the first place. I don't really see what Harley Quinn adds to the Batman mythos. She comes across as sexist wish-fulfillment to me. It doesn't help that according to Bruce Timm and Paul Dini, the entire reason they came up with the character in the first place, was so that she could move a cake for the Joker. So basically, the entire reason she exists is because the creators of B:TAS needed a woman to move something for a man... |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 17, 2017 22:53:06 GMT
But real life abusers see it as loving the person. The Joker doesn't love Harley. Like I said, he sees her as a thing to play with and discard whenever. And making Joker like that is a part of who he is. He does the same thing to Batman. Hell, you can even say that Joker is to Batman what Harley is to the Joker. Look how sad he gets when he thinks that Batman is dead. Her being a goofy, murdering ditz is a part of her character and theme. It's what's underneath that that people identify with. The woman that loves this man that abuses her. That wants to get away, but sees what he does to her as love and comes back to him. There has been plenty of times that Harley got so pissed at the Joker for what he did to her that she left him. Dude will do something Jokerish (something she sees as funny) and she'll jump back into Puddin's arms. And guess what? Everyone around them will look at each other like "WTF?" If we're talking about the DCAU, then the Joker hates Batman's guts and wants nothing more than to kill him personally, but that's besides the point. I don't really see why we need that kind of story with the Joker. The Joker isn't the kind of character who anyone should be in love with. It just comes off as bizarre and sexist to give him of all people a trophy wife. Portraying a female character as a ditz who loves the most blatant psychopath in Batman's entire rogue's gallery doesn't seem right. The Joker shouldn't be portrayed as a charming manipulator, and I don't see why he would keep someone like Harley around in the first place. I don't really see what Harley Quinn adds to the Batman mythos. She comes across as sexist wish-fulfillment to me. It doesn't help that according to Bruce Timm and Paul Dini, the entire reason they came up with the character in the first place, was so that she could move a cake for the Joker. So basically, the entire reason she exists is because the creators of B:TAS needed a woman to move something for a man... I think that is the point. No one should be in love with the Joker, but you have this woman that he seduced, and made crazy, fall in love with him. Joker is shown as a manipulator all the time. And you think charming, but that's not really the case. He just knows hows to get into a person's head and give them what they want. And, again, her being a ditz is a part of her theme. She adds the same that others add: tortured soul. So she moved a cake. But she became something bigger. Hell, she's easily in the top 10 characters in DCU. Also, if you look back on Batman: TAS, there where quite a bit of villain girls. Harley is just the one that gained popularity. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 17, 2017 23:00:38 GMT
If we're talking about the DCAU, then the Joker hates Batman's guts and wants nothing more than to kill him personally, but that's besides the point. I don't really see why we need that kind of story with the Joker. The Joker isn't the kind of character who anyone should be in love with. It just comes off as bizarre and sexist to give him of all people a trophy wife. Portraying a female character as a ditz who loves the most blatant psychopath in Batman's entire rogue's gallery doesn't seem right. The Joker shouldn't be portrayed as a charming manipulator, and I don't see why he would keep someone like Harley around in the first place. I don't really see what Harley Quinn adds to the Batman mythos. She comes across as sexist wish-fulfillment to me. It doesn't help that according to Bruce Timm and Paul Dini, the entire reason they came up with the character in the first place, was so that she could move a cake for the Joker. So basically, the entire reason she exists is because the creators of B:TAS needed a woman to move something for a man... I think that is the point. No one should be in love with the Joker, but you have this woman that he seduced, and made crazy, fall in love with him. Joker is shown as a manipulator all the time. And you think charming, but that's not really the case. He just knows hows to get into a person's head and give them what they want. And, again, her being a ditz is a part of her theme. She adds the same that others add: tortured soul. So she moved a cake. But she became something bigger. Hell, she's easily in the top 10 characters in DCU. Also, if you look back on Batman: TAS, there where quite a bit of villain girls. Harley is just the one that gained popularity. To each their own. I appreciate the response at the very least. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 18, 2017 13:34:03 GMT
I think that is the point. No one should be in love with the Joker, but you have this woman that he seduced, and made crazy, fall in love with him. Joker is shown as a manipulator all the time. And you think charming, but that's not really the case. He just knows hows to get into a person's head and give them what they want. And, again, her being a ditz is a part of her theme. She adds the same that others add: tortured soul. So she moved a cake. But she became something bigger. Hell, she's easily in the top 10 characters in DCU. Also, if you look back on Batman: TAS, there where quite a bit of villain girls. Harley is just the one that gained popularity. I appreciate the response at the very least. Now you're getting it. Heck, Twilight made millions upon millions of dollars. Not everyone likes the same thing. |
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Apr 20, 2017 19:58:17 GMT
I've already made a thread where I expressed my problems with the character, so I'll avoid doing that again here. I don't want to beat a dead horse after all. That being said, can I get some explanations as to why people like her so much? Why do her comics sell so well, and why do so many people dress up as her for Halloween? I just could never grasp what makes her so popular. Is it because of nostalgia for Batman: The Animated Series? Is it because people think she's hot? It's just a huge mystery to me. Even when I watched B:TAS as a kid, I couldn't stand her, and kind of thought she made the Joker less scary. I just wanted an explanation for this once and for all, given that WB is now trying to capitalize on her popularity more than ever. I don't get it either. When you really analyze her there isn't that much there. Dead pool too IMO. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 22, 2017 16:58:05 GMT
She should be even more popular.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 22, 2017 17:04:05 GMT
She should be even more popular. Why? She's already plenty popular. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 22, 2017 17:16:36 GMT
I know. I just felt the need to counterbalance the abundance of anti-Harley posts with an overreaching positive one.  |
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