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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 14, 2020 15:31:24 GMT
Messaged with musicologist online who thinks the Blade Runner singer is the Sleuth singer—identified similar “scoops” in each song. I just responded asking about the higher notes/higher voice. This is probably the most exciting possibility since this whole thing began. (Apologies to David Kernan.) I would be pleased if a musicologist agrees with my amateur assessment.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Apr 14, 2020 15:36:06 GMT
Nalkarjwhatza musical "scoop" ? It's a term I know from ice cream and journalism but suspect it's something quite different
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 14, 2020 15:41:10 GMT
Nalkarj whatza musical "scoop" ? It's a term I know from ice cream and journalism but suspect it's something quite different If I remember correctly, it’s a singing technique of starting low on a note and going high—Ethel Merman used to use it all the time. Here’s an online dictionary definition:
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Post by BATouttaheck on Apr 14, 2020 17:44:43 GMT
Didn't Merman just open her mouth and bellow ?
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Post by alfromni on Apr 14, 2020 19:56:28 GMT
The more I listen to these two tracks the more I'm convinced it's the same singer. I'm not really concerned about the higher notes. That's down to the arranger. "One more kiss, dear" is certainly arranged a couple of tones too high for the singer. Why it wasn't lowered is beyond me.
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Post by poelzig on Apr 15, 2020 4:23:40 GMT
By Jove I think you've got it. They sound the same to me. Well done my friend. Mother of Mercy. Is this the end of Salzmanks sleuthing?
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Post by alfromni on Apr 15, 2020 8:45:11 GMT
Don's obit says... "Back in England he joined the Basil Kirchin Band on bass. In 1964 he had a breakthrough when Blake Edwards, in one of the early Pink Panther films, A Shot in The Dark, asked his band to play in the nudist colony and night club scenes: fame at last on the big screen, full exposure but no extra fees, just the film credits."I see no credits on IMDb for this Panther movie, for either Don, or Basil, or the band. That said on www.youtube.com/watch?v=uegSeceG15I at about 2:24 into the clip there is a terrific shot of the band playing in the nude, bass player included. Can anyone confirm if it's Don? Sadly no singing. I would have made a screen shot, but not sure how to do it.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 15, 2020 23:45:54 GMT
I noticed on the Youtube page (Sleuth) some claims about the Sleuth singer being Al Bowlly, and have to admit I still wondered about Al too, so I looked up his full discography of 1,237 recordings. None of the relevant three Cole Porter songs are listed. Al Bowlly just didn't record them. www.albowlly.club/discography.htmlGreat impersonation by Don, if he's the guy.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 16, 2020 1:03:08 GMT
That band Pink Panther thing reminds me-there was a MonsterKids discussion about an appearance by Boris Karloff on some show and the backup band for the episode was one that Joe Pesci had been in when he was young. They were saying how cool it would have been had Karloff and Pesci been in the same shot! Either the band was different or he was not in it at the particular time.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 16, 2020 5:00:52 GMT
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 16, 2020 5:11:46 GMT
That band Pink Panther thing reminds me-there was a MonsterKids discussion about an appearance by Boris Karloff on some show and the backup band for the episode was one that Joe Pesci had been in when he was young. They were saying how cool it would have been had Karloff and Pesci been in the same shot! Either the band was different or he was not in it at the particular time. Boris Karloff not Basil Kirchin.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 16, 2020 5:36:53 GMT
We're obviously at cross meanings here. I mistakenly picked it up that Joe Pesci played with the "Panther" band when young. Oh well. it's still early in the morning.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 17, 2020 6:31:30 GMT
Further trivia on Al Bowlly. Here is a list of Al's songs heard on U.S. radio... www.oldtimetv.net/old-time-radio-usa-comedy-variety/old-time-radio-usa-uk-big-band-sound/Again none of the Sleuth songs are on the list. So...Al's chances of being the mystery Sleuth singer are increasingly diminishing. I've also checked other radio stations and shows where possible. No Bowlly Sleuth songs recorded on disc, from live shows, in movies, or as far as I can discover, from anywhere. Plenty of Cole Porter songs, but none of the three we need. My conclusion... The Sleuth Singer ain't Al Bowlly. Incidentally, I'm finding it equally as difficult finding a 30s band which sounds like the Sleuth band. The styles, arrangements, and in most cases the line-ups are different. Which comes back to the assumptions which were made early on in this thread that it's a modern (60s/70s) band emulating a 30s one. Why the 30s? The style of singing we hear on Sleuth went out in the 40s. Very few crooners (if any) in the 40s had an Al Bowlly smooth and somewhat syrupy style. The 50s brought in Rock 'n' Roll.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 17, 2020 14:07:06 GMT
One question I can't figure out the answer to, is why would the producers of Sleuth go to the bother of emulating 30s recordings of Cole Porter songs, when there are thousands of discs already available and fit for purpose? Am I missing something?
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 17, 2020 14:31:45 GMT
One question I can't figure out the answer to, is why would the producers of Sleuth go to the bother of emulating 30s recordings of Cole Porter songs, when there are thousands of discs already available and fit for purpose? Am I missing something? I think Will_Ed mentioned this way back on the original IMDb boards, but maybe it’s because the singing had to align with the sounds in the movie? Right, so it’s super-coincidental that “You Do Something to Me” ends just when Olivier’s bell rings. Mankiewicz et al. probably wanted “Just One of Those Things” and “You Do Something to Me” timed so that they could play for the entire shot with the toys and end just when the bell rung, which also emphasizes the bell. YouTube commenter lyncounion wrote that the vocal section in “You’re the Top” coincidentally end just as Caine and Olivier start talking—which is true, I just confirmed (the whole movie’s available on Internet Archive, at least for the time being). Again, that may be because they wanted to get the whole song in but not have the vocals overwhelm the dialogue, so they claim up with this wacky ’30s-imitation scheme. Or, y’know, it could be an unbelievably subtle way to show the play and movie’s theme, that Wyke’s Golden Age was never really golden at all, because the ’30s-ness of the recording is phony. But I highly doubt that one.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 17, 2020 17:21:20 GMT
Nalkarj - Many thanks for a great answer. The old adage..."Timing is everything".
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 17, 2020 17:42:23 GMT
Maybe that is also the reason the 40s songs in PLAY DIRTY were not authentic (hey Salzmank-there's another challenge for you-find out who sung Lili Marleen in Play Dirty--and it also has Michael Caine!), although I assumed it could also be because of a) copyright and b) the old recordings would have had too much noise to sound new or be distracting.
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 17, 2020 17:51:39 GMT
Maybe that is also the reason the 40s songs in PLAY DIRTY were not authentic ( hey Salzmank-there's another challenge for you-find out who sung Lili Marleen in Play Dirty--and it also has Michael Caine!), although I assumed it could also be because of a) copyright and b) the old recordings would have had too much noise to sound new or be distracting. Can’t really look too far into this right now, and I’ve never actually seen Play Dirty, but according to a YouTube comment the version was “recorded especially for the film and sung by Lale Palmer [ sic? I’m thinking he means Lale Andersen] who made it famous in the 1930’s” but has “never been released” on an album or anything. No idea where the commenter, “Andre King,” gets his information or if his claim is reliable.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 17, 2020 18:08:55 GMT
Can’t really look too far into this right now, and I’ve never actually seen Play Dirty, but according to a YouTube comment the version was “recorded especially for the film and sung by Lale Palmer [ sic? I’m thinking he means Lale Andersen] who made it famous in the 1930’s” but has “never been released” on an album or anything. No idea where the commenter, “Andre King,” gets his information or if his claim is reliable. Wow that was fast!
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 17, 2020 18:21:46 GMT
I seem to recall though, that I looked into it briefly and there was a date problem with it being that version, or I listened to one her voice and it didn't match the movie one.
IMDB only has:
Soundtrack Credits Lili Marlene German Lyrics by Hans Leip English Lyrics by The Personnel of the Long Range Desert Group and the Special Air Services Music by Norbert Schultze You Are My Sunshine Lyrics and Music by Jimmie Davis (as Jimmy Davis) and Charles Mitchell J'Attendrai (Tornerai) Music by Dino Olivieri Italian lyrics by Nino Rastelli French lyrics by Louis Poterat
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