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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 17, 2020 18:59:19 GMT
My search was to find the particular recording, but I couldn't.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 17, 2020 20:32:05 GMT
Play Dirty was released in 1969. As observed, Andre King stated "That version of Lili Marlene was recorded especially for the film and sung by Lale Palmer Andersen who made it famous in the 1930’s." This is Lale Andersen in 1962. Doesn't sound like the same singer to me. She represented Germany in the 1961 Eurovision Song Contest with "Einmal sehen wir uns wieder". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_1961. I suppose she could have had a throat transplant between 1962 and 1969, but I see no mention of it.
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Post by jervistetch on Apr 17, 2020 21:28:13 GMT
Maybe they meant Lili Palmer.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 17, 2020 21:42:21 GMT
jervistetch --- Re Lilli Palmer. Problem there Jervis. She was only 16 in 1930, and she didn't record Lily Marlene in 1930, let alone make it famous. Also she's from a Jewish family, hence her flight to Paris when Hitler came to power, and later to London. ---------------- The "true" story of Lily Marlene. www.youtube.com/watch?v=POboxyU59csMore progaganda than fully factual. It makes Lale Andersen Swedish, when she was actually German.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 17, 2020 22:19:28 GMT
I was surprised to hear Lilli Palmer mentioned in a Suspense radio ad--I didn't know she was active in the 1940s and Hollywood (but I seem to make that mistake a lot--assuming someone was younger than they actually were). And I was surprised to find out Roger Moore was making Hollywood-based movies in the early 60s.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 18, 2020 2:30:45 GMT
Getting back to Sleuth. I've never heard Michael Caine sing, but if anyone has a weird idea that the mystery singer is Lord Olivier, this should remove that thought right out of his/her head. I got round to thinking over Nalkarj 's answer... "I think Will_Ed mentioned this way back on the original IMDb boards, but maybe it’s because the singing had to align with the sounds in the movie... timed so that they could play for the entire shot with the toys and end just when the bell rung, which also emphasizes the bell."
Which is easier? Fitting the music to the dialogue and business, or fitting the dialogue and business to the music?
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Post by alfromni on Apr 19, 2020 11:52:59 GMT
The main theme of "Sleuth" is the playing of games. THe producers also played games with the audience.
This from Wiki... "The production team intended to reveal as little about the movie as possible so as to make the conclusion a complete surprise to the audience. For this reason there is a false cast list at the beginning of the film which lists fictional people playing roles that do not exist."
Thus said, did the producers realise they were inadvertently unleashing one of the biggest puzzle games of all by omitting the name of the band and singer performing the Cole Porter songs from their credits. Or was it indeed inadvertent? Mmm...
----------------
There's an interesting piece of dialogue between "my Lord" and the "Inspector" regarding placing a gun to a victim's head and firing a blank cartridge at zero range, and assuming no injuries would occur. This is a fallacy. There have been many reports of injuries from firing blanks.
A famous example of such (albeit post "Sleuth") was in 1984 when actor Jon Erik-Hexum died while on the set of CBS’s Cover-Up as a result of a blank cartridge. Bored by incessant delays, the actor pointed a gun loaded with blanks to his head and reportedly said, “Can you believe this crap?” before pulling the trigger.
He had pressed the barrel directly to his temple, and the force of the explosion still did incredible damage, even without a bullet. It drove a small chunk of his own skull into his brain, which caused severe hemorrhaging and put him in a coma. He died as a result of his injuries.
Maybe writers of detective stories, should do a little (sometimes a lot) of research before writing a word.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 19, 2020 19:36:12 GMT
---------------- A famous example of such (albeit post "Sleuth") was in 1984 when actor Jon Erik-Hexum died while on the set of CBS’s Cover-Up as a result of a blank cartridge. Bored by incessant delays, the actor pointed a gun loaded with blanks to his head and reportedly said, “Can you believe this crap?” before pulling the trigger. He had pressed the barrel directly to his temple, and the force of the explosion still did incredible damage, even without a bullet. It drove a small chunk of his own skull into his brain, which caused severe hemorrhaging and put him in a coma. He died as a result of his injuries. Maybe writers of detective stories, should do a little (sometimes a lot) of research before writing a word. I remember that--at least it served as a warning. I think Brandon Lee also died from a blank cartridge mishap. On the other hand, information on such things may have been a lot harder to get decades ago if you wanted to research it. You'd have to telephone an expert on blank-firing guns and chances are such people worked in the film industry and probably wouldn't want to advertise the idea that their guns are unsafe-assuming they knew it. Many examples of things used in film that turned out to be dangerous like artificial snow, or explosions going off on set. I read the cast of Star Trek ended up with ear damage because they didn't use earplugs in those days.
This reminds me I have been meaning to post my own question on the evolution of gun blasts in film--in some, all you see is a puff of smoke, then you started to see muzzle flashes. I have been wondering about why the change (into the 1960s). Did they use a different kind of blank charge? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 19, 2020 20:08:33 GMT
Maybe it depends on the period in which the movie is set, and what the director wants to convey. With regard to no muzzle flashes, this may partly answer the question... Flash suppressor - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_suppressor
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 23, 2020 21:38:54 GMT
Getting back to Sleuth. I've never heard Michael Caine sing, but if anyone has a weird idea that the mystery singer is Lord Olivier, this should remove that thought right out of his/her head. I got round to thinking over Nalkarj 's answer... "I think Will_Ed mentioned this way back on the original IMDb boards, but maybe it’s because the singing had to align with the sounds in the movie... timed so that they could play for the entire shot with the toys and end just when the bell rung, which also emphasizes the bell."
Which is easier? Fitting the music to the dialogue and business, or fitting the dialogue and business to the music? Listened to Caine singing early on too… Unless he can swap his vocal chords with someone else’s when singing, definitely not him either! Problem with that may be that real versions went on too long and that Mankiewicz wanted each song to flow smoothly into the next one. (Another clue that they’re not “real”: “Anything Goes” is missing Porter’s entire introductory verse.) Easier to control song length and timing with their own versions. By the way, I’m still unable to find any direct connection between Percival and Sleuth, unfortunately, and have yet to hear back from anyone more musical than I on definitive proof it’s the same singer.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 23, 2020 21:51:07 GMT
I haven't yet heard an actual 30s big band which didn't play a full orchestral version of the song before the singer came in. And yes missing an entire introductory verse would have been unthinkable for the period. That even applies to most big bands of the 40's. Nice point The Cole Porter music in itself seems to have no relevance to the plot. Was it included in the stage version or the later movie version? If not, and it has no relevance, why was it included in the '72 version?
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 24, 2020 2:00:08 GMT
I haven't yet heard an actual 30s big band which didn't play a full orchestral version of the song before the singer came in. And yes missing an entire introductory verse would have been unthinkable for the period. That even applies to most big bands of the 40's. Nice point The Cole Porter music in itself seems to have no relevance to the plot. Was it included in the stage version or the later movie version? If not, and it has no relevance, why was it included in the '72 version? Not included in the play. Apparently a whim of Mankiewicz’s, who demanded the scene be reinstated after executives cut it. Don’t know why.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 24, 2020 2:44:06 GMT
Mmm... interesting. Something to work on perhaps?
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 24, 2020 3:17:40 GMT
Mmm... interesting. Something to work on perhaps? I wrote something about it earlier in this thread… Here. I looked into it at the time but couldn’t find anything. Still mostly trying to work on a connection between Percival and Palomar Pictures, or at least something or someone Sleuth-related. So far just a lot of stuff that could be coincidental, e.g., some of Blade Runner’s dubbing work was done at Pinewood Studios, where Sleuth was filmed in part. Have found, by the way, that Percival singing “One More Kiss, Dear” was recorded at Wembley CTS Studios, which has now gone out of business. No connection to Sleuth that I’ve been able to find, but something curious: The chief dubbing mixer on Blade Runner was none other than Graham V. Hartstone, who also worked on Sleuth and whom I contacted early on in the search. Not sure if that’s just a coincidence or what, but that surprised me…
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Post by alfromni on Apr 24, 2020 3:41:58 GMT
I'm sure you've already checked this out, but I note that Wiki states... "Addison's collection of correspondence, scores, and studio recordings were donated to the Film Music Archives at Brigham Young University in 1994."On a personal point, being ex-RAF, I note Wiki also states that he was the brother-in-law of one of my heroes, Douglas Bader, and wrote the score for "Reach for the Sky". But that's a "btw".
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 24, 2020 3:48:19 GMT
I'm sure you've already checked this out, but I note that Wiki states... "Addison's collection of correspondence, scores, and studio recordings were donated to the Film Music Archives at Brigham Young University in 1994."On a personal point, being ex-RAF, I note Wiki also states that he was the brother-in-law of one of my heroes, Douglas Bader, and wrote the score for "Reach for the Sky". But that's a "btw". Going to have to look into Reach for the Sky! Yes, I reached out to Brigham Young University early on in the search (it’s on this thread…2018, maybe?). The curator was nice enough to investigate for me, but found nothing. For the most part I’m convinced John Addison had little or nothing to do with the songs, that they were a whim of Mankiewicz’s and that only he, the singer, the band, and Gary Hughes had any real involvement with them.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 24, 2020 3:55:28 GMT
Nalkarj said - "Going to have to look into Reach for the Sky!"Reach for the Sky. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LgYtZ0yLCMI learned today that the character Johnny Sanderson played by Lyndon Brook was in fact based on Air Commodore Geoffrey Dalton Stephenson, CBE (19 January 1910 – 8 November 1954), who was killed shortly before Reach For The Sky was made. So his name was changed in the movie. "On 8 November 1954, Commodore Stephenson was flying a USAF F-100A-10-NA Super Sabre, 53-1534,[5] near Auxiliary Field 2 of Eglin Air Force Base, Florida. He was flying at 13,000 ft (4,000 m) as he joined formation with another F-100, flown by Capt. Lonnie R. Moore, jet ace of the Korean campaign, when his fighter dropped into a steep spiral, impacting at ~14:14 in a pine forest on the Eglin Reservation, one mile NE of the runway of Pierce Field, Auxiliary Fld. 2." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_D._Stephensonwww.rafweb.org/Biographies/Stephenson_GD.htm
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Post by alfromni on Apr 24, 2020 4:56:47 GMT
Sadly only Hartstone left. The rest of the music and sound crews have all gone celestial. Not looking good for a result. However, never say die. The search goes on. Hartstone has 221 sound credits for over 190 movies, so I can't see any real connection between two movies ten years apart. That said he was born in 1944 so would have been only 28 at the time Sleuth was made. As he was in control of the sound mixing and possibly dubbing, any possibility that he himself (or indeed one of his colleagues) was the Cole Porter singer without taking an additional singing credit ?
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Post by Nalkarj on Apr 24, 2020 13:32:11 GMT
So, alfromni , do you no longer think Percival is the singer? It’s highly unlikely that Hartstone’s our man; as I wrote, I reached out to him early on and he said he’d been asked the question before in the past but couldn’t remember who it was. A YouTube commenter with whom I was in contact said he’d also reached out to Hartstone, who’d told him the singer might have been Harry Nilsson (who we know now was not the singer; all that is earlier in the thread as well). It could have been one of his colleagues, I supposed, but it’s unlikely—and I’m still fired up by the Blade Runner lead.
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Post by alfromni on Apr 24, 2020 13:48:37 GMT
Nalkarj --- What the Sleuth puzzle has done for me. I used to be normal and now when I look in the mirror I see...
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