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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 12, 2019 23:24:57 GMT
If you have a problem with someone calling out racists and sexists, then that probably says a lot about you. What racists and sexist? In all honesty the criticisms toward The Last Jedi which were deemed are nowhere as huge as the media is suggesting, in my time on the net since its release I've only come cross a small number who actually wrote such things directed at the film but they were written in a very trolling manner so they were most likely just going for shock value.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 12, 2019 23:45:19 GMT
It's always the racists, sexists, and homophobes who think diversity can be some how forced. Not necessarily, its just really how diversity is presented on the screen. I would say most people, regardless of race, background, gender, or sexual preference would take issue with a movie or television program if halfway in the narrative just stops completely and a political message is delivered just to pander to a certain portion of the audience just for brownie points and the sheer entertainment factor suddenly becomes second fiddle in the grander scheme of the viewing experience. For instance, I have female friends who did not like the latest Toy Story because they made Bo Peep into something of a high and mighty warrior woman without a flaw in sight and that all the male characters like Woody and Buzz were written as incompetent and slow of mind. Another instance, I have a few friends who are bi and gay and they cannot stand most CW or Ryan Murphy shows because they cannot stand that politics overtake the storytelling.
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Post by darksidebeadle on Nov 13, 2019 1:41:52 GMT
only a few trolls (who are always the loudest did some diversity trolling but they do it on all films but they do not equate to actual star wars fans by who in large hated the last jedi cos it was garbage, nothing to do with diversity which the series and scifi in general has always had good diversity, look at two pf the biggest propeties in scifi of all time, aline and the terminator, women led films, look at Battle star Galactica, still more diverse than anything before or since, all beloved. Ruin Johnson is dishonest, he knows that 99% of the complaints are nothing to do with that, him spreading misinformation is a disgrace.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Nov 13, 2019 21:52:38 GMT
It's always the racists, sexists, and homophobes who think diversity can be some how forced. That's not a blanket statement at all... I'll save you the sarcasm. Of course it is. But it's one that neatly covers the racists, sexists, and homophobes.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Nov 13, 2019 21:53:13 GMT
More random strings of words. It's a shame to see a human rendered a rambling husk of a shell. What part of "You're one of those fruitcakes who thinks Nathan Filion in Firefly is better than Han Solo aren't you?" do you not understand? Just more random, crazy words from a random, crazy mind.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Nov 13, 2019 21:56:20 GMT
It's always the racists, sexists, and homophobes who think diversity can be some how forced. Not necessarily, its just really how diversity is presented on the screen. I would say most people, regardless of race, background, gender, or sexual preference would take issue with a movie or television program if halfway in the narrative just stops completely and a political message is delivered just to pander to a certain portion of the audience just for brownie points and the sheer entertainment factor suddenly becomes second fiddle in the grander scheme of the viewing experience. For instance, I have female friends who did not like the latest Toy Story because they made Bo Peep into something of a high and mighty warrior woman without a flaw in sight and that all the male characters like Woody and Buzz were written as incompetent and slow of mind. Another instance, I have a few friends who are bi and gay and they cannot stand most CW or Ryan Murphy shows because they cannot stand that politics overtake the storytelling. But that's not forcing diversity.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Nov 13, 2019 22:11:56 GMT
Not necessarily, its just really how diversity is presented on the screen. I would say most people, regardless of race, background, gender, or sexual preference would take issue with a movie or television program if halfway in the narrative just stops completely and a political message is delivered just to pander to a certain portion of the audience just for brownie points and the sheer entertainment factor suddenly becomes second fiddle in the grander scheme of the viewing experience. For instance, I have female friends who did not like the latest Toy Story because they made Bo Peep into something of a high and mighty warrior woman without a flaw in sight and that all the male characters like Woody and Buzz were written as incompetent and slow of mind. Another instance, I have a few friends who are bi and gay and they cannot stand most CW or Ryan Murphy shows because they cannot stand that politics overtake the storytelling. But that's not forcing diversity. Something being 'forced' is really a matter of opinion, to the people I mentioned the aspects I spoke of felt forced to them.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Nov 13, 2019 22:37:33 GMT
But that's not forcing diversity. Something being 'forced' is really a matter of opinion, to the people I mentioned the aspects I spoke of felt forced to them. I disagree. Not everything is a matter of opinion. In any case, what you mentioned wasn't forced diversity. It might've been forced politics or even bad characterization. But it wasn't forced diversity. Having diverse characters isn't forced diversity. It's just diversity. Only the racists, sexists, and homophobes complain diversity can be forced.
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Post by ellynmacg on Nov 14, 2019 0:36:19 GMT
Now that, regardless of my opinions about the movie, is a good pun on "Rian."  |
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Post by vegalyra on Nov 14, 2019 1:59:07 GMT
That's not a blanket statement at all... I'll save you the sarcasm. Of course it is. But it's one that neatly covers the racists, sexists, and homophobes. Okay. Whatever you say. |
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Post by mslo79 on Nov 14, 2019 9:49:58 GMT
My problem with it is more that they are doing it just for the sake of it more than the role calling for it. it's forced Hollywood BS basically, which is why people don't like it along with what @jakesully said as you can tell a fair amount of the time when they go for the 'diverse cast' that they are quite generic as I am more concerned with getting people with a decent screen presence more than anything else. p.s. hell, they are trying to ruin James Bond with all of this modern liberal BS by either changing to a female character or change Bond from white to black etc. common sense says you just don't screw with iconic characters like that (it's like trying to screw with Coca-Cola Classic, you just don't do it). because if they want a female type of Bond the best thing to do is... keeps James Bond movies like they have always been but have a spin-off female character in the Bond world who can get a Bond-like movie on the side. so you still get James Bond movies say once every 3-4 years or so but can have that female Bond-like one on the side here and there. this way you don't piss off the Bond fans and they might even get a quality Bond-like bonus movie on the side once in a while.
But he completely misses the point in why many are against it as it's not strictly about going against diversity, it's more that Hollywood is forcing it instead of letting people get roles based on whether they are good enough for the role or not depending on their overall screen presence etc. because it seems more and more movies are getting diverse but the quality of acting is suffering because of it which is not surprising as they are basically limited to less people by forcing their diversity on the general public.
so given that info... a lot of people who oppose it are not doing it strictly because of skin color but because Hollywood is forcing it to occur because of skin color more than just giving the role to someone who's got a solid all around presence and the like.
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Caesium137
Sophomore
I am simply not there
@cobalt
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Post by Caesium137 on Nov 14, 2019 10:21:39 GMT
Johnson is just trying to deflect from the actual criticisms of the movie and try to make the whole situation political and paint critics as toxic and unevolved. People didn't have problems with diversity in The Last Jedi they had problems with the lack of interesting characters, its boring storyline, and how it just took one big dump on the entire franchise. This is accurate. The choice of cast and story lines they were given was the problem, not this forced diversity thing. Finn as a character in concept is actually very interesting, former storm trooper who broke out of the fascist military cult. But the story they dedicated to him is razor thin and largely ignores his development from the bad to the good side. On top of that, John Boyega is not a very good actor imo so it just amplifies the lameness. It's not about racial appearance. Imagine if they cast someone actually charismatic like Anthony Mackie or Mahershala Ali and then a good writer gave them a compelling story arc. Same with Rose. I don't agree with fans who attacked her social media and stuff because it wasn't her fault to get cast. The problem wasn't that she was Asian, it was because she had a more lamer storyline than Finn, had a clunky forced romance with Finn with no chemistry and is overall not a very appealing actress. Replace her with an Asian actress who is a lot more attractive, has a better screen presence and better chemistry with her romantic interest and you would not get the same complaints.
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Post by faustus5 on Nov 14, 2019 11:15:38 GMT
Johnson is just trying to deflect from the actual criticisms of the movie and try to make the whole situation political and paint critics as toxic and unevolved. People didn't have problems with diversity in The Last Jedi they had problems with the lack of interesting characters, its boring storyline, and how it just took one big dump on the entire franchise. This is accurate. No, it is not accurate in the sense that it isn't what Rian Johnson was talking about.
There were openly racist and misogynist objections to the casting of women and non-whites in the new trilogy. There were also objections that tried to hide their racism and misogyny (anyone who uses the phrase "forced diversity" falls into the latter category). Those are what he was talking about, not objections based solely on "lame characterizations" or "lame story arcs". Complaining about Finn's story arc turning on the First Order being badly written, for instance, is perfectly legitimate and doesn't merit a "fuck you" for racism.
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Caesium137
Sophomore
I am simply not there
@cobalt
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Post by Caesium137 on Nov 14, 2019 11:33:36 GMT
No, it is not accurate in the sense that it isn't what Rian Johnson was talking about.
There were openly racist and misogynist objections to the casting of women and non-whites in the new trilogy. There were also objections that tried to hide their racism and misogyny (anyone who uses the phrase "forced diversity" falls into the latter category). Those are what he was talking about, not objections based solely on "lame characterizations" or "lame story arcs". Complaining about Finn's story arc turning on the First Order being badly written, for instance, is perfectly legitimate and doesn't merit a "fuck you" for racism.
I see. Then I obviously support RJ in his disdain towards these anti-diverse trolls. But I think they are being mixed in too much with people who generally dont like TLJ for legitimate reasons which is where the confusion is coming from on both sides. |
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Nov 14, 2019 15:09:37 GMT
No one ever had a problem with white humans interacting with a wookiee or an ewok, why get worked up when an asian shows up?
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Nov 14, 2019 15:22:32 GMT
No one ever had a problem with white humans interacting with a wookiee or an ewok, why get worked up when an asian shows up? Only a few morons had a problem with that, what most people had a problem with was that the movie was bad.
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Post by Winter_King on Nov 14, 2019 15:30:49 GMT
Is it really diversity that people have a problem with? The Force Awakens was not divisive among audiences and it was actually well received by fans and critics alike and it already had Rey, Poe and Finn as the main characters.
The Last Jedi, most criticism I've seen has been directed with how the movie treated Luke Skywalker and it mainly was more focused on subverting expectations from The Force Awakens than delivering a good movie.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Nov 14, 2019 15:52:37 GMT
It's always the racists, sexists, and homophobes who think diversity can be some how forced. How is the casting of black and Asian characters as noble men and women in 16th century Britain in the movie "Mary Queen of Scots" NOT forced diversity? How fucking stupid does one have to be to deny the very concept of forced diversity against overwhelming proof? |
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Post by faustus5 on Nov 14, 2019 16:13:28 GMT
How is the casting of black and Asian characters as noble men and women in 16th century Britain in the movie "Mary Queen of Scots" NOT forced diversity? How fucking stupid does one have to be to deny the very concept of forced diversity against overwhelming proof? There were persons of color in the noble classes during that time period. Very few, but they were out there. They were more likely to have been "Moors" rather than from deep continental Africa, but that's just not very important. More important: how fucking stupid do you have to be to get get worked up over an exaggerated portrayal of this given how many liberties period movies and TV shows regularly take on other subjects which you almost certainly never whine about?
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Nov 14, 2019 17:28:03 GMT
How is the casting of black and Asian characters as noble men and women in 16th century Britain in the movie "Mary Queen of Scots" NOT forced diversity? How fucking stupid does one have to be to deny the very concept of forced diversity against overwhelming proof? There were persons of color in the noble classes during that time period. Very few, but they were out there. They were more likely to have been "Moors" rather than from deep continental Africa, but that's just not very important. More important: how fucking stupid do you have to be to get get worked up over an exaggerated portrayal of this given how many liberties period movies and TV shows regularly take on other subjects which you almost certainly never whine about? We are not talking about why I should get more upset about anachronistic forced diversity casting than about other anachronisms. We are talking about your utterly idiotic contention (and PreachCaleb 's) that there is no such thing as "forced diversity". Acknowledge that it exists first, and then maybe we can talk.
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