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Post by CrepedCrusader on Dec 13, 2019 3:46:53 GMT
Mark Hamill, who in an interview after shooting Return of the Jedi said he was sick of Star Wars and didn't want to do it anymore.
Alex Guiness, who thought Star Wars was silly b.s.
Gart Kurtz, who was unhappy with the changes Lucas made to the Empire Strikes Back story, thinking Lucas was worrying more about selling toys than making a good story.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 13, 2019 4:55:52 GMT
Mark Hamill, who in an interview after shooting Return of the Jedi said he was sick of Star Wars and didn't want to do it anymore. Alex Guiness, who thought Star Wars was silly b.s. Gart Kurtz, who was unhappy with the changes Lucas made to the Empire Strikes Back story, thinking Lucas was worrying more about selling toys than making a good story. Provide a video link of this supposed Mark Hamill interview. Spell his name right! You failed to do so with either his first or last name. Also I'm not sure why this tired rumor won't die, but Alec didn't hate Star Wars. What he didn't like was the obsession with Star Wars from audience members around the world who would devote their lives exclusively to the movies. He thought it was unhealthy. He actually adored the story though, which is why he decided he had to do Episode 4 to begin with. Here he is talking about it: So? Kurtz didn't see things from Lucas' perspective. George Lucas had waved his director's fee and put everything on the line financially from his personal life in order to keep control of the OT. The only way he could make any money to keep going and finish the trilogy in his vision was to sell toys. Even so, Kurtz was also wrong. Episode 5 isn't a toy movie. It's very dark. In fact, it's the darkest episode of the OT. Luke gets his ass kicked, his hand chopped off, and plummets to his death. Lando "turns" on the characters. Han is put into carbonite. C3PO is blasted to bits. Etc... not a toy friendly movie, really. Episode 5 is also routinely considered the best installment in the trilogy among audience members. Kurtz and Kasdan had weird views on how the trilogy should have gone. Had they got their way, Luke would have been the sole survivor of the OT among the main characters, and walked off alone into the sunset at the end of Episode 6. There most likely wouldn't have been Episode 7-9 then, which would have been the only upside to their negative perception of the storytelling... George Lucas was about positivity with his stories. Hence the difference between Lucas and Johnson: 
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 13, 2019 5:12:50 GMT
Mark Hamill, who in an interview after shooting Return of the Jedi said he was sick of Star Wars and didn't want to do it anymore. That’s not a criticism of any of the movies. Just a confession that he was experiencing franchise burnout. For the record that’s VERY common. Why do you think Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans characters were killed off in the last Avengers movie? That was known from the start. And Harrison Ford feels the same way. Just not as much conviction. And he is cryptic about expressing it. But it’s not surprising considering their resume. Imagine if you were a Hollywood legend who played challenging, Oscar nominated roles. Then you’re in a low spot in your career. Then you take a role in a quirky, big budget B list movie. And you act your way through out of a sense of professionalism and a paycheck. You worry it might be a “black mark” on your resume; and at best it could become a cult classic. Then it explodes into one of the most famous movies of all time. But now this role is what you are most known for for the rest of your life. You would probably view the role (and perhaps the movie) as being beneath your career. I thought that was ROTJ. Didn’t he quit halfway through the movie because of some such reasons? What’s funny about this happening in the Disney/sequel trilogy is the polarization. Some people critical of it have overemphasized this when it comes up. But diehard defenders are having the narrative ruined that all of the actors (save for Hamill) have held the trilogy in the same infallible esteem that they do. |
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Dec 13, 2019 12:30:42 GMT
That’s not a criticism of any of the movies. Just a confession that he was experiencing franchise burnout. For the record that’s VERY common. Why do you think Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans characters were killed off in the last Avengers movie? Precisely. Which is why I'm tired certain "fans" running around talking about, "Did you hear? The cast of the new movies said they aren't interested in doing more Star Wars movies/Disney+ series! Something something Kathleen Kennedy something something Star Wars is dead!!!" |
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Dec 13, 2019 12:32:55 GMT
Provide a video link of this supposed Mark Hamill interview. I saw the video on YouTube a couple years ago. It was an interview from the period when RotJ was being released. I've been trying to find it again for a while without any luck. |
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 13, 2019 16:21:19 GMT
That’s not a criticism of any of the movies. Just a confession that he was experiencing franchise burnout.
For the record that’s VERY common. Why do you think Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans characters were killed off in the last Avengers movie?That was known from the start. And Harrison Ford feels the same way. Just not as much conviction. And he is cryptic about expressing it. But it’s not surprising considering their resume. Imagine if you were a Hollywood legend who played challenging, Oscar nominated roles. Then you’re in a low spot in your career. Then you take a role in a quirky, big budget B list movie. And you act your way through out of a sense of professionalism and a paycheck. You worry it might be a “black mark” on your resume; and at best it could become a cult classic. Then it explodes into one of the most famous movies of all time. But now this role is what you are most known for for the rest of your life. You would probably view the role (and perhaps the movie) as being beneath your career. I thought that was ROTJ. Didn’t he quit halfway through the movie because of some such reasons? What’s funny about this happening in the Disney/sequel trilogy is the polarization. Some people critical of it have overemphasized this when it comes up. But diehard defenders are having the narrative ruined that all of the actors (save for Hamill) have held the trilogy in the same infallible esteem that they do. Or why Daniel Craig famously said that he would "rather slit his wrist than do another Bond movie" when an interviewer had asked him right after finishing Spectre if he would be open to another installment in that series.
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Post by johnspartan on Dec 13, 2019 18:02:10 GMT
Mark Hamill, who in an interview after shooting Return of the Jedi said he was sick of Star Wars and didn't want to do it anymore. Alex Guiness, who thought Star Wars was silly b.s. Gart Kurtz, who was unhappy with the changes Lucas made to the Empire Strikes Back story, thinking Lucas was worrying more about selling toys than making a good story. Trying to tear down the original trilogy to prop up the sequels further proves you're a troll not a Star Wars fan.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Dec 13, 2019 18:04:26 GMT
They don’t like movies? What, do they listen to the radio or something? What a bunch of weirdos.
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Dec 14, 2019 2:15:40 GMT
Mark Hamill, who in an interview after shooting Return of the Jedi said he was sick of Star Wars and didn't want to do it anymore. Alex Guiness, who thought Star Wars was silly b.s. Gart Kurtz, who was unhappy with the changes Lucas made to the Empire Strikes Back story, thinking Lucas was worrying more about selling toys than making a good story. Trying to tear down the original trilogy to prop up the sequels further proves you're a troll not a Star Wars fan. You missed my point. The point was that everything said about the ST could be said about the OT (and the PT, for that matter.) Critics were initially cold on Empire because it was too dark, and for years a segment of the fandom treated Return as a redheaded stepchild. Throughout the filming of the OT, people involved with it openly aired misgivings, and by '83 the stars were clearly over it. With the PT (you know, those movies the "fans" said ruined their childhoods before they decided to pretend they never said that because it was suddenly convenient to use them to bash the ST) Liam Neeson said making Menace made him want to quit acting. By the time Attack came out in '02 people were already pointing to a drop in toy sales as proof that Star Wars was dead. I read an article when either Attack or Revenge was coming out where Natalie Portman said something like, "Isn't it awful?" when the interviewer said they'd just seen the movie, and then quickly said she was only kidding. Could you imagine if one of the stars of the ST said that? You'd be all like, "See, I told you, Star Wars is dead!!!" |
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 14, 2019 8:01:49 GMT
You missed my point. The point was that everything said about the ST could be said about the OT (and the PT, for that matter.) Critics were initially cold on Empire because it was too dark, and for years a segment of the fandom treated Return as a redheaded stepchild. Throughout the filming of the OT, people involved with it openly aired misgivings, and by '83 the stars were clearly over it. With the PT (you know, those movies the "fans" said ruined their childhoods before they decided to pretend they never said that because it was suddenly convenient to use them to bash the ST) Liam Neeson said making Menace made him want to quit acting. By the time Attack came out in '02 people were already pointing to a drop in toy sales as proof that Star Wars was dead. I read an article when either Attack or Revenge was coming out where Natalie Portman said something like, "Isn't it awful?" when the interviewer said they'd just seen the movie, and then quickly said she was only kidding. Could you imagine if one of the stars of the ST said that? You'd be all like, "See, I told you, Star Wars is dead!!!" Wow. You're really stooping low to try to "win" an argument and validate the terrible ST. It's pretty pathetic you have to insult the roots of the franchise in order to try to do that. I do find it funny how you scold others here calling us "not real fans" for daring to criticize Disney Star Wars. However, here you are putting down the OT and PT...hypocrisy, much?  By your own definition, you're not a "true Star Wars fan" now. No, not everything. The climate of being a Star Wars fan was different back then. George Lucas and 20th Century Fox didn't launch a public attack on fans for daring to criticizing their product, for instance. They didn't gut the characters, removing all semblance of opposition to the heroes by prematurely killing off the main antagonists. They didn't drop storylines without a conclusion or payoff. They didn't keep the main new characters separate from each other without establishing their relationships first (Rey and Poe don't even know each other). They didn't sideline the minority characters for laughs. They didn't rest everything on nostalgia in hopes of selling tickets. They didn't just regurgitate previous installments by using their planets/characters/themes/etc. because they lacked creativity or a clear vision. Etc. Liam Neeson was an old school actor at that time. Actors weren't used to that all that CGI back then - now it's commonplace for big movies. The technology (like how they created Jar Jar) was brand new in the 90's. Lucas was a trailblazer in even attempting and risking it (especially with such a prominent character). Neeson didn't like all the CGI because it was foreign to him as an actor. Actors in 2019 are well versed in that way of filmmaking now - as is Neeson. Ewan McGregor didn't care for all the CGI work either. It doesn't mean the PT wasn't done with care/planning like with the ST. Natalie Portman wasn't into Star Wars. She had never even watched the OT when the role presented itself in her life (as of the conclusion of the PT, she still hadn't watched them). She also signed for the trilogy without having read even a page of the script for Episode 1 because Lucas hadn't finished writing it at that point. She didn't know what she was getting into. The final product wasn't her cup of tea. It's her prerogative to say so. It doesn't mean the PT was bad. Unlike Mark Hamill, she didn't have a 40 year connection to the franchise or her character. It was just a job for her. Personally if I were an actor, I wouldn't want to do romantic comedies because it isn't a genre I like. Me not liking them doesn't mean they're terrible genre of movies though OR that the people who made it were incompetent for doing so.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 14, 2019 8:25:16 GMT
Star Wars was a money job for Guinness.
Hamill on the other hand was very enthusiastic about it-he had interviewed Kerwin Matthews for a genre magazine a few years earlier and helped promote Star Wars at a comic book convention in 1976.
From what I have read Kurtz and also Marcia Lucas felt GL became too obsessed with building Lucasfilm ranch and not making movies. She said he was emulating Francis Ford Coppola who got a big head.
Whatever the case Star Wars was closely modeled on the FOX film Prince Valiant. Kurtz did say the Jedi were based on medieval knights--Lucas may have said Samurai for multicultural messaging reasons.
The trajectory of the Star Wars films WAS negative.
The story outline Kurtz talked about was used by Disney.
Han Solo dies, Luke goes off alone, Leia is isolated as leader of the new government, the Other is the savior, the Emperor returns for episode 9.
Lucas made all the rebel gurus female so he was pushing a liberal agenda.
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Dec 14, 2019 14:59:52 GMT
Wow. You're really stooping low to try to "win" an argument and validate the terrible ST. It's pretty pathetic you have to insult the roots of the franchise in order to try to do that. I do find it funny how you scold others here calling us "not real fans" for daring to criticize Disney Star Wars. However, here you are putting down the OT and PT...hypocrisy, much? Again, to make it clear, I'm not bashing either the OT or PT. (In fact, I've been a PT defender from the beginning, and it infuriates me that a bunch of bandwagoneers who spent years trashing them now pretend to be their defenders.) I'm using criticisms that have been levelled at the old movies by certain segments of the fandom to illustrate that it's nothing new, and that pretending every negative thing said about the new movies proves that Star Wars is "dead" is silly. Before the Disney movies, people were complaining about the prequels, and before that they were complaining about the Special Editions, and before that they were complaining about Return of the Jedi, and before that they were complaining about Empire being too dark and the show the good guys lose. |
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 14, 2019 17:37:08 GMT
Again, to make it clear, I'm not bashing either the OT or PT. (In fact, I've been a PT defender from the beginning, and it infuriates me that a bunch of bandwagoneers who spent years trashing them now pretend to be their defenders.) I'm using criticisms that have been levelled at the old movies by certain segments of the fandom to illustrate that it's nothing new, and that pretending every negative thing said about the new movies proves that Star Wars is "dead" is silly. Before the Disney movies, people were complaining about the prequels, and before that they were complaining about the Special Editions, and before that they were complaining about Return of the Jedi, and before that they were complaining about Empire being too dark and the show the good guys lose. Yes you were. You were putting down Lucas' movies in order to try to elevate Disney's. You're not the first to do it either. I see this behavior a lot from ST supporters. i.e. Just look at how they put down Anthony Daniels' work as C-3PO in order to disqualify his opinion about the ST as well. Episode 1 came out in 1999. There's a whole generation of children that have grown up with the PT and are now adults. Maybe stop to think that it isn't people jumping on the bandwagon, but these fans finally having the ability to voice their opinion about the trilogy. Also, 1999 was a completely different time for tech. Many people didn't have Internet in their home, and if they did, it was dial-up Internet. There was no high-speed, high definition content. It didn't exist. I remember trying to watch Episode 1's trailer on my computer right after it released and the damn thing kept freezing every. Second. All I remember about the trailer was the Trade Federation ship slowwwwly coming up over the grassy field of Naboo for battle and I gave up on trying to watch it. I didn't want the glitching to ruin my first viewing of the trailer. I didn't get to see the whole trailer until I eventually bought a ticket to see Meet Joe Black (which was the only movie to have the trailer before it). Anyway...the PT isn't perfect but it did add new content to the franchise. It didn't just copy or damage/destroy what came before it like with the ST. I would agree with that to a degree. Some is just people's opinions. However, there's a trend between the low attendance numbers at the theme park, Solo underperforming, the cast/crew starting to speak more candidly about their feelings of the ST, the inability of Disney's people to be on the same page about what happened behind the scenes (i.e. Abrams saying there was always a plan for the trilogy while Johnson insist there wasn't one beyond Episode 7), failing merchandising sales (I know how much emphasis you put on the almighty dollar...), movie studios no longer pushing back/moving forward release dates of their big movies because they fear competing against a new Star Wars movie like when Lucas owned the franchise, the discontent among the fan base who loved Episode 7/Rogue One but despised 8, etc. The good guys lost the battle - not the war. The last shot of Episode 5 is Luke/Leia/Droids/Rebellion rallying together and looking towards the future of how they can improve their circumstances. There's hope in that shot. It wasn't just utter failure/pain for the heroes like it was with 8. The ST is just cynical and depressing. I really don't know what kid would want to play with toy versions of such miserable people.
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