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Post by CrepedCrusader on Dec 22, 2019 0:45:48 GMT
...I take comfort in two certainties: that Disney will never "give" Star Wars to another company, and that as long as Disney owns it, incels and I'm-not-racists will NEVER see their "all white males heroes" dream fulfilled.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 22, 2019 2:27:11 GMT
...I take comfort in two certainties: that Disney will never "give" Star Wars to another company, and that as long as Disney owns it incels and I'm-not-racists will NEVER see their "all white males heroes" dream fulfilled. After TLJ release... TLJ/Rey fans: “Stop crying about how they treated Luke in TLJ! If Luke was a woman you wouldn’t have a problem with it. Cry some more, you bitter, misogynist man-babies! LOL “After TROS release... TLJ/Rey fans: “What! They retconned Rey from being a nobody/anybody who becomes superpowered with the Force! They gave her a lineage to an existing Force user! HOW DARE THEY CHANGE SUCH AN IMPORTANT FEATURE TO SUCH AN IMPORTANT CHARACTER! THEY RUINED THINGS! ITS NOT FAIR!”Strong in the hypocrisy they are...
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Post by johnspartan on Dec 22, 2019 2:37:51 GMT
...I take comfort in two certainties: that Disney will never "give" Star Wars to another company, and that as long as Disney owns it incels and I'm-not-racists will NEVER see their "all white males heroes" dream fulfilled. After TLJ release... TLJ/Rey fans: “Stop crying about how they treated Luke in TLJ! If Luke was a woman you wouldn’t have a problem with it. Cry some more, you bitter, misogynist man-babies! LOL “After TROS release... TLJ/Rey fans: “What! They retconned Rey from being a nobody/anybody who becomes superpowered with the Force! They gave her a lineage to an existing Force user! HOW DARE THEY CHANGE SUCH AN IMPORTANT FEATURE TO SUCH AN IMPORTANT CHARACTER! THEY RUINED THINGS! ITS NOT FAIR!”Strong in the hypocrisy they are... All the pro critics on Rottentomatoes are now hating TROS so I guess that makes THEM racist, misogynist, manbabies, and Russian bots.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 22, 2019 2:43:49 GMT
After TLJ release... TLJ/Rey fans: “Stop crying about how they treated Luke in TLJ! If Luke was a woman you wouldn’t have a problem with it. Cry some more, you bitter, misogynist man-babies! LOL “After TROS release... TLJ/Rey fans: “What! They retconned Rey from being a nobody/anybody who becomes superpowered with the Force! They gave her a lineage to an existing Force user! HOW DARE THEY CHANGE SUCH AN IMPORTANT FEATURE TO SUCH AN IMPORTANT CHARACTER! THEY RUINED THINGS! ITS NOT FAIR!”Strong in the hypocrisy they are... All the pro critics on Rottentomatoes are now hating TROS so I guess that makes THEM racist, misogynist, manbabies, and Russian bots. LOL! Yep.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Dec 22, 2019 8:49:37 GMT
...I take comfort in two certainties: that Disney will never "give" Star Wars to another company, and that as long as Disney owns it incels and I'm-not-racists will NEVER see their "all white males heroes" dream fulfilled. Nice. You're saying Lando was white in the OT?! I mean, he was definitely one of the *heroes* of of the Rebellion in Return and practically blew up the Death Star himself. I really don't get your SJW agenda and why it takes priority over a good story and characters, I really don't?!?! Is it because it's out of splite for Trump
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Dec 22, 2019 10:16:51 GMT
...I take comfort in two certainties: that Disney will never "give" Star Wars to another company, and that as long as Disney owns it incels and I'm-not-racists will NEVER see their "all white males heroes" dream fulfilled. Nice. You're saying Lando was white in the OT?! I mean, he was definitely one of the *heroes* of of the Rebellion in Return and practically blew up the Death Star himself. I really don't get your SJW agenda and why it takes priority over a good story and characters, I really don't?!?! Is it because it's out of splite for Trump
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Post by merh on Dec 22, 2019 23:15:51 GMT
Nice. You're saying Lando was white in the OT?! I mean, he was definitely one of the *heroes* of of the Rebellion in Return and practically blew up the Death Star himself. I really don't get your SJW agenda and why it takes priority over a good story and characters, I really don't?!?! Is it because it's out of splite for Trump He was added because of the complaint that the only "black guy" in the main cast first movie was Vader(James Earl Jones). Lando was very shifty, by the way, in Empire. I liked they brought that up in Solo
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Post by merh on Dec 22, 2019 23:17:17 GMT
After TLJ release... TLJ/Rey fans: “Stop crying about how they treated Luke in TLJ! If Luke was a woman you wouldn’t have a problem with it. Cry some more, you bitter, misogynist man-babies! LOL “After TROS release... TLJ/Rey fans: “What! They retconned Rey from being a nobody/anybody who becomes superpowered with the Force! They gave her a lineage to an existing Force user! HOW DARE THEY CHANGE SUCH AN IMPORTANT FEATURE TO SUCH AN IMPORTANT CHARACTER! THEY RUINED THINGS! ITS NOT FAIR!”Strong in the hypocrisy they are... All the pro critics on Rottentomatoes are now hating TROS so I guess that makes THEM racist, misogynist, manbabies, and Russian bots. STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER Critics Consensus Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker suffers from a frustrating lack of imagination, but concludes this beloved saga with fan-focused devotion. TOMATOMETER Total Count: 357 57% AUDIENCE SCORE Verified Ratings: 31,469 86%
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Post by Jan El Señor on Dec 22, 2019 23:23:18 GMT
Lando was very shifty, by the way, in Empire. I liked they brought that up in Solo Lando did what he had to to try and save the citizens of Cloud City. I never saw him as shifty in that film. I saw him trying to navigate an impossible situation. I hated the way Lando was in Solo. He and Han weren't even friends in that. Solo is the only live action Star Wars film I don't acknowledge.
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Post by merh on Dec 22, 2019 23:55:48 GMT
Lando was very shifty, by the way, in Empire. I liked they brought that up in Solo Lando did what he had to to try and save the citizens of Cloud City. I never saw him as shifty in that film. I saw him trying to navigate an impossible situation. I hated the way Lando was in Solo. He and Han weren't even friends in that. Solo is the only live action Star Wars film I don't acknowledge. I love Solo. Totally fit Lando. Lando was a smarmy jerk Han won the Falcon twice. Lando cheated that first time. I love that Han caught that. Han was always a good guy whether he knew it or not.
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Post by Winter_King on Dec 23, 2019 10:03:28 GMT
Well shit... I rather take comfort in the hopes that they will actually make good Star Wars movies after learning of the mistakes of this trilogy.
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Post by jonesjxd on Dec 30, 2019 12:39:56 GMT
No, I don't think this is too accurate. Anyone who knows Star Wars knows that all these movies have always been made up and retconned as they go. I nearly jumped out of my seat from excitement during TLJ's more subversive scenes (Luke tossing the lightsaber, Snoke's death, the revelation of Rey's lack of lineage, etc), but when when defending the movie against my screaming enraged friends, I was always quick to say "Dude, come on, you know all this will just be retconned in Episode 9, because that's what Star Wars does". I didn't go into Rise of Skywalker expecting to see a continuation of Rian Johnsons vision, I just didn't expect it to be disrespected as much as it was, and frankly, for the retcons to be so bad.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Dec 30, 2019 17:00:37 GMT
No, I don't think this is too accurate. Anyone who knows Star Wars knows that all these movies have always been made up and retconned as they go. This is partially true, especially for the OT. I do think the prequels had more of a game plan, but Lucas still obviously made changes as he went along. However, it worked for those movies because it all came from one person's vision of the story. The retcons worked a lot better in those. Even in the OT, Lucas was still the creative force behind all the films. He didn't just hand total creative control over to the next director. That's the issue here. Total creative control was given to different directors who were very obviously at odds with each other....
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 30, 2019 20:25:52 GMT
...I take comfort in two certainties: that Disney will never "give" Star Wars to another company, and that as long as Disney owns it, incels and I'm-not-racists will NEVER see their "all white males heroes" dream fulfilled. One day, Disney will be bought out. The name will probably live on as a stipulation, but eventually they'll get bought up just like all the other old company names that people thought would never go down.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 30, 2019 20:39:41 GMT
No, I don't think this is too accurate. Anyone who knows Star Wars knows that all these movies have always been made up and retconned as they go. This is partially true, especially for the OT. I do think the prequels had more of a game plan, but Lucas still obviously made changes as he went along. However, it worked for those movies because it all came from one person's vision of the story. The retcons worked a lot better in those. Even in the OT, Lucas was still the creative force behind all the films. He didn't just hand total creative control over to the next director. That's the issue here. Total creative control was given to different directors who were very obviously at odds with each other.... ^ agree, The most structured game plan in Star Wars was the PT. These films play like a 3-act play (light, twilight, dark) - which makes some chapters more exiting than others. Lucas knew how and where Anakin's downfall and Palpatines rise would go. The OT storyline was made up as they went on. This explains some of the bigger OT plot holes such as Vaders changing personality, Obi Wan becoming a cunning liar, or the incest thing. But I think that for the most part these changes were successfully inserted to create a more interesting narrative: eg Vader in Empire is this demonic, ruthless leader who wants to destroy his emperor and rule the galaxy; in Jedi he is conflicted and forgiving, but must "serve" his master (protecting him). That provided for a more interesting character development. Same cannot be said for the ST, here, despite them building upon the already established narrative OT structure, the recons and contradictions (against the Lucas sextology and ST films) seem based on polls and show a lack of plan and coherent artistic vision.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 30, 2019 20:59:35 GMT
Lando had the remote controlled white guy servant Lobot also. They could have made the android a robot--or silver-skinned, they chose to give him the remote-controlled white guy. The most successful male character in the series was Lando. He was rich, smart, and helped blow up the Death Star without Force magic. He needs to be saved by a blind man in Return of the Jedi but it was more for laughs, the same way Han Solo accidentally defeats Boba Fett (making BF into a feeb was less about goofing him up, they just did not want Han to be shown to fight someone in an old fashioned way). Wedge is a military recruit and less than a supporting character.
And the retcons are always in the direction of making characters with a certain hue look weaker and worse off. So in Star Wars Obi Wan Kenobi was a bad ass former warrior but by the third movie he was a disillusioned failed teacher.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 21:00:34 GMT
This is partially true, especially for the OT. I do think the prequels had more of a game plan, but Lucas still obviously made changes as he went along. However, it worked for those movies because it all came from one person's vision of the story. The retcons worked a lot better in those. Even in the OT, Lucas was still the creative force behind all the films. He didn't just hand total creative control over to the next director. That's the issue here. Total creative control was given to different directors who were very obviously at odds with each other.... ^ agree, The most structured game plan in Star Wars was the PT. These films play like a 3-act play (light, twilight, dark) - which makes some chapters more exiting than others. Lucas knew how and where Anakin's downfall and Palpatines rise would go. The OT storyline was made up as they went on. This explains some of the bigger OT plot holes such as Vaders changing personality, Obi Wan becoming a cunning liar, or the incest thing. But I think that for the most part these changes were successfully inserted to create a more interesting narrative: eg Vader in Empire is this demonic, ruthless leader who wants to destroy his emperor and rule the galaxy; in Jedi he is conflicted and forgiving, but must "serve" his master (protecting him). That provided for a more interesting character development. Same cannot be said for the ST, here, despite them building upon the already established narrative OT structure, the recons and contradictions (against the Lucas sextology and ST films) seem based on polls and show a lack of plan and coherent artistic vision. Woulda been hard for the prequels to retcon much, with the outcome already seen decades before.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Dec 30, 2019 21:08:25 GMT
Woulda been hard for the prequels to retcon much, with the outcome already seen decades before. The biggest retcon I remember was the fact that Owen was originally set to be Obi-Wan's brother. This was in the ROTJ script and its novelization, so it was something hardcore fans believed for over a decade at the time. Even the official website and some EU materials released around the time of TPM mentioned this. It was only when making AOTC when Lucas decided not to go with that background for the characters and all references to it were removed from the official databank. It wasn't a big deal onscreen as that never made to the screen. But I remember a lot of fans not liking that change back in the day....
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 30, 2019 21:31:09 GMT
^ agree, The most structured game plan in Star Wars was the PT. These films play like a 3-act play (light, twilight, dark) - which makes some chapters more exiting than others. Lucas knew how and where Anakin's downfall and Palpatines rise would go. The OT storyline was made up as they went on. This explains some of the bigger OT plot holes such as Vaders changing personality, Obi Wan becoming a cunning liar, or the incest thing. But I think that for the most part these changes were successfully inserted to create a more interesting narrative: eg Vader in Empire is this demonic, ruthless leader who wants to destroy his emperor and rule the galaxy; in Jedi he is conflicted and forgiving, but must "serve" his master (protecting him). That provided for a more interesting character development. Same cannot be said for the ST, here, despite them building upon the already established narrative OT structure, the recons and contradictions (against the Lucas sextology and ST films) seem based on polls and show a lack of plan and coherent artistic vision. Woulda been hard for the prequels to retcon much, with the outcome already seen decades before. well, I am talking inner trilogy coherence and development. Lucas had not much of a backstory except that Anakin was "a good man" who somehow became super evil. This means he is a sociopath rather than a psychopath. Lucas solved that formidably by letting Anakin stumbling over his (well meaning) attachments, fear of loss and inability to let go, which lead to him wishing to control everything and ultimately destroy what he wishes to protect (fear leads to anger etc). Palpatine's rise was completely open, also how the republic fell. Lucas could have gone the trivial route by having the evil empire attack and conquer the peaceful republic from the outside. He chose the artistically and creatively valuable path of a democratic republic being systematically corrupted from inside and the Empire/dark side growing out of it like a cancer a la Julius Caesar, Napoleon or A Hitler, all correlating with the balance of the force concept (or even with spaceship designs eg Jedi police ship turns into star destroyer in II - brilliant!). There are retcons and minor plot holes, eg Padmes death which was done to add gravitas to the tragedy; these holes must be closed with Force memory, empath abilities or Leia talking about Bail's wife dying.
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Post by jonesjxd on Dec 31, 2019 11:56:19 GMT
No, I don't think this is too accurate. Anyone who knows Star Wars knows that all these movies have always been made up and retconned as they go. This is partially true, especially for the OT. I do think the prequels had more of a game plan, but Lucas still obviously made changes as he went along. However, it worked for those movies because it all came from one person's vision of the story. The retcons worked a lot better in those. Even in the OT, Lucas was still the creative force behind all the films. He didn't just hand total creative control over to the next director. That's the issue here. Total creative control was given to different directors who were very obviously at odds with each other.... Agreed. Disney 100% should have hired one person to oversee the entire trilogy. Hopefully they do a more cohesive job next time, whether it's the Rian Johnson trilogy or handing the reigns off to Jon Favreau.
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