Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 24, 2020 12:59:52 GMT
Not sure what damage you're talking about here. The sequel trilogies are character driven films which have better themes than the PT. Thats funny because I didn't give a damn about any of the characters in the sequels. And how are they character driven when none of them progress in any meaningful way? It is spectacle driven.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 24, 2020 14:00:20 GMT
Not sure what damage you're talking about here. The sequel trilogies are character driven films which have better themes than the PT. Thats funny because I didn't give a damn about any of the characters in the sequels. And how are they character driven when none of them progress in any meaningful way? It is spectacle driven. ^this What's even funnier is that for the life of me I could not pitch the themes of the sequels except for rehashed, derivative themes that were done in a much superior ways in the originals and prequels. With the PT I can name genuine themes untouched by the originals ad hoc : the villain's journey, the rise of demagogues/dictatorship, corruption of democracy and liberty, fog of war, inability to let go etc.
|
|
senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 546
|
Post by senan90 on Jan 24, 2020 17:25:20 GMT
Not sure what damage you're talking about here. The sequel trilogies are character driven films which have better themes than the PT. Thats funny because I didn't give a damn about any of the characters in the sequels. And how are they character driven when none of them progress in any meaningful way? It is spectacle driven. Yeah right. Rey goes from a nobody to a somebody, Finn sees the bigger picture and finds a purpose, Poe puts his selfishness aside and is a team player. There is a progression and at least with Rey there is complexity, none of that childishness of someone taking a knee and agreeing to slaughter children in the space of 2 minutes of screen time.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 24, 2020 17:44:56 GMT
Thats funny because I didn't give a damn about any of the characters in the sequels. And how are they character driven when none of them progress in any meaningful way? It is spectacle driven. Yeah right. Rey goes from a nobody to a somebody, Finn sees the bigger picture and finds a purpose, Poe puts his selfishness aside and is a team player. There is a progression and at least with Rey there is complexity, none of that childishness of someone taking a knee and agreeing to slaughter children in the space of 2 minutes of screen time. But why is Rey fighting against the evil empire. Theres no real emotional reason other than she has to because she's the hero. She's not a trained Jedi who desires to keep the peace. She isn't seeking revenge or justice for murdered parents or friends. She is a nobody who then ends up stealing a surname. Finn and Poe start out as a deserter stormtrooper and an arrogant maverick pilot. I dont remember them ending the movie any different. Theyre each given half assed romantic interests but they fizzle into nothingness. Anakin killing children was already done in Ep 2 to set up his turn in Ep 3. And its shown throughout the whole prequels how much attachment he has to Padme and that he will anything to save her from impending death.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 24, 2020 18:02:33 GMT
Anakin killing children was already done in Ep 2 to set up his turn in Ep 3. And its shown throughout the whole prequels how much attachment he has to Padme and that he will anything to save her from impending death. Lol. You realize the whole "saving Padme" story was added at the last minute in pickup shots, right? It wasn't planned, and the fact that it's shoehorned in is glaringly obvious....
|
|
senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 546
|
Post by senan90 on Jan 24, 2020 18:19:23 GMT
Yeah right. Rey goes from a nobody to a somebody, Finn sees the bigger picture and finds a purpose, Poe puts his selfishness aside and is a team player. There is a progression and at least with Rey there is complexity, none of that childishness of someone taking a knee and agreeing to slaughter children in the space of 2 minutes of screen time. But why is Rey fighting against the evil empire. Theres no real emotional reason other than she has to because she's the hero. She's not a trained Jedi who desires to keep the peace. She isn't seeking revenge or justice for murdered parents or friends. She is a nobody who then ends up stealing a surname. Finn and Poe start out as a deserter stormtrooper and an arrogant maverick pilot. I dont remember them ending the movie any different. Theyre each given half assed romantic interests but they fizzle into nothingness. Anakin killing children was already done in Ep 2 to set up his turn in Ep 3. And its shown throughout the whole prequels how much attachment he has to Padme and that he will anything to save her from impending death. The First Order is indirectly responsible for her impoverishment and loss. The Romanians who lived under Ceaușescu's government never went after the gangsters, they formed the Revolution assigned to taking him and his army down. No idea what you're talking about regarding Finn and Poe and the romantic interests? Their own arc was done in TLJ, likewise with Han and Leia in ESB. I'm not buying Anakin's turn, there was little to no reason for him slaughtering the children. It was forced and very out of character for him.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 24, 2020 19:03:07 GMT
Anakin killing children was already done in Ep 2 to set up his turn in Ep 3. And its shown throughout the whole prequels how much attachment he has to Padme and that he will anything to save her from impending death. Lol. You realize the whole "saving Padme" story was added at the last minute in pickup shots, right? It wasn't planned, and the fact that it's shoehorned in is glaringly obvious.... If that it was added"in the last minute" this was one of the most brilliant last minute additions I have ever seen... Strange! The inability to let go of attachments (fear of loss) is Anakin's central conflict as from EpI, and was central in Ep II with his mother (where he swore never to fail again this way), and paid off in Ep III with Padme. It lead to arguably the most brilliant dialogue scenes in all of Star Wars such as the Opera Scene. Weird that Lucas - one of the most brilliant story tellers of our time - would be so forgetful about the obvious. But pray tell, could you kindly provide authentic sources to demonstrate your claim that the saving Padme theme was inserted last minute? I would love to check that.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 24, 2020 19:10:46 GMT
But why is Rey fighting against the evil empire. Theres no real emotional reason other than she has to because she's the hero. She's not a trained Jedi who desires to keep the peace. She isn't seeking revenge or justice for murdered parents or friends. She is a nobody who then ends up stealing a surname. Finn and Poe start out as a deserter stormtrooper and an arrogant maverick pilot. I dont remember them ending the movie any different. Theyre each given half assed romantic interests but they fizzle into nothingness. Anakin killing children was already done in Ep 2 to set up his turn in Ep 3. And its shown throughout the whole prequels how much attachment he has to Padme and that he will anything to save her from impending death. I'm not buying Anakin's turn, there was little to no reason for him slaughtering the children. It was forced and very out of character for him. ^^the personal incredulity is strong with this one… Indeed, very out of character: a guy who slaughtered entire villages before and decapitated unarmed prisoners. Here we go again: All too easy, quod erat demonstrandum Is there actually such a thing as intelligent prequel haters, would make this far more interesting...
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 24, 2020 19:19:01 GMT
Lol. You realize the whole "saving Padme" story was added at the last minute in pickup shots, right? It wasn't planned, and the fact that it's shoehorned in is glaringly obvious.... If that it was added"in the last minute" this was one of the most brilliant last minute additions I have ever seen... Strange! The inability to let go of attachments (fear of loss) is Anakin's central conflict as from EpI, and was central in Ep II with his mother (where he swore never to fail again this way), and paid off in Ep III with Padme. It lead to arguably the most brilliant dialogue scenes in all of Star Wars such as the Opera Scene. Weird that Lucas - one of the most brilliant story tellers of our time - would be so forgetful about the obvious. But pray tell, could you kindly provide authentic sources to demonstrate your claim that the saving Padme theme was inserted last minute? I would love to check that. If the most obvious shoehorned in "Hail Mary" is brilliant to you, to each their own. Most of this is explained in The Making of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith. It's also in the book, The Secret History of Star Wars, and much of it used to be available online. It's linked below: web.archive.org/web/20100519135047/http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/theturn.html
|
|
senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 546
|
Post by senan90 on Jan 24, 2020 19:30:18 GMT
I'm not buying Anakin's turn, there was little to no reason for him slaughtering the children. It was forced and very out of character for him. ^^the personal incredulity is strong with this one… Indeed, very out of character: a guy who slaughtered entire villages before and decapitated unarmed prisoners. Here we go again: All too easy, quod erat demonstrandum Is there actually such a thing as intelligent prequel haters, would make this far more interesting...
But he then loses his adoptive father and mentor (Qui Gon), who is the only one believing in him. Goodbye old dude who I just met, thanks for allowing Waddo to keep my mother in captivity despite you already using Jedi powers to deceive the dice throw. Hey, why did I go through that whole podrace thing again? I could have been killed. He flirts with dictatorship and strong man politics ("well, if it works!")Give me a fucking break. It was a throwaway line, and he was awkward as hell, trying to impress/flirt with Padme. He blames the Jedi for his failing and loss, he swears on his mother's grave never to fail again (holding sand in his hand).Okay mother, I'll never fail you again, no matter what you think of me. When the Jedi try to assassinate his friend and father figure Palpatine, he finally has to make a immediate choice between saving his wife/mentor or the Jedi; he decides for the former by killing M Windu. Of course, he was previously lied to by his father figure, and he saw through it, even threatening him with a lightsaber. Actually, Anakin is a real twerp, what an idiot. The conman politician who is prolonging a war, destroying the galaxy, killing millions, tells Anakin he is the Sithlord. That's okay, I believe you have the power to save my wife. Convincing. Brilliant. And that Faustian crap is just reachy reachiness. You're so weird.
|
|
shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 1,785
|
Post by shinnickneth on Jan 24, 2020 19:41:52 GMT
Except now we know that Kasdan was also a one-hit writing wonder. He too has been found out. His screenplay for Solo was mediocre storytelling. And his shared screenplay for TFA was mostly a rehashed retelling of ANH. And he hasn’t done much in between that time. He did contribute to the screenplay for Episode 6 as well. I'm unsure how much. Maybe someone else can shine a light on that.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 24, 2020 21:57:01 GMT
Anakin killing children was already done in Ep 2 to set up his turn in Ep 3. And its shown throughout the whole prequels how much attachment he has to Padme and that he will anything to save her from impending death. Lol. You realize the whole "saving Padme" story was added at the last minute in pickup shots, right? It wasn't planned, and the fact that it's shoehorned in is glaringly obvious.... Still in the grand order of things it made narrative sense. Young Anakin developed emotions of regret in Ep 1 when he realized he missed his mother because he had strong attachement which is natural in a untrained youngling. Thats why in Ep 2 he went into a fit of rage when she was murdered and he couldn't save her. Now those feelings of love were transposed onto Padme in Ep 3 and the poetic injustice of history repeating itself when he couldn't save Padme from death no matter how commited his attempts. I dont see it as a glaring obvious shoehorn. Its quite a natural progression. Its the greatest demonstration of Yodas teachings of attachment which echoes traditional Buddhist philosophy - which I am very interested in so it this story arc resonates with me more than others perhaps.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 24, 2020 22:06:38 GMT
But why is Rey fighting against the evil empire. Theres no real emotional reason other than she has to because she's the hero. She's not a trained Jedi who desires to keep the peace. She isn't seeking revenge or justice for murdered parents or friends. She is a nobody who then ends up stealing a surname. Finn and Poe start out as a deserter stormtrooper and an arrogant maverick pilot. I dont remember them ending the movie any different. Theyre each given half assed romantic interests but they fizzle into nothingness. Anakin killing children was already done in Ep 2 to set up his turn in Ep 3. And its shown throughout the whole prequels how much attachment he has to Padme and that he will anything to save her from impending death. The First Order is indirectly responsible for her impoverishment and loss. The Romanians who lived under Ceaușescu's government never went after the gangsters, they formed the Revolution assigned to taking him and his army down. No idea what you're talking about regarding Finn and Poe and the romantic interests? Their own arc was done in TLJ, likewise with Han and Leia in ESB. I'm not buying Anakin's turn, there was little to no reason for him slaughtering the children. It was forced and very out of character for him. I understand that the evil First Order are meant to be oppressive (yet their endgame plan in TROS resorts to equipping 100s of star destroying tech to blow up planets rather than conquering and expanding their dynasty?). But when you write a character who is literally a nobody that has no real motivation to topple villains on a personal level its very difficult to connect with them.
|
|