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Post by goz on Jan 18, 2020 22:01:38 GMT
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Post by kls on Jan 18, 2020 22:08:24 GMT
I don't see how a confession is a valid or sincere confession minus turning oneself in if a crime is involved.
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senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 546
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Post by senan90 on Jan 18, 2020 22:08:42 GMT
They do it all the time, in Ireland they pay off the parents and make their victims sign a hush contract. Catholicism; it's a shit religion.
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Post by goz on Jan 18, 2020 22:11:47 GMT
I don't see how a confession is a valid or sincere confession minus turning oneself in if a crime is involved. I am sorry. I don't understand your point. Can you please explain?
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Post by kls on Jan 18, 2020 22:13:06 GMT
I don't see how a confession is a valid or sincere confession minus turning oneself in if a crime is involved. I am sorry. I don't understand your point. Can you please explain? I was agreeing with you regarding not seeing the point of confessing without turning yourself in.
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Post by goz on Jan 18, 2020 22:23:32 GMT
I am sorry. I don't understand your point. Can you please explain? I was agreeing with you regarding not seeing the point of confessing without turning yourself in. Oh OK.
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Post by goz on Jan 18, 2020 23:54:28 GMT
I find it so sad that the Catholic Church ( in particular and Christianity in general) put the status of a presumed God before the welfare of children who have suffered at the hands of priests over millenia, and many other victims of crime whom the Catholic priests knew about and yet remained silent because of this ridiculous notion. IMHO the hypocrisy and evilness of such thinking is appalling, and a sin in religious world" as it is a crime in the secular world. What are they thinking?
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Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Jan 19, 2020 1:06:40 GMT
And this is why I stopped being a Catholic.
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Post by goz on Jan 19, 2020 1:11:10 GMT
And this is why I stopped being a Catholic. If I may presume...are you still a person of Faith? or have you just removed yourself from Catholicism?
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Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Jan 19, 2020 1:16:12 GMT
And this is why I stopped being a Catholic. If I may presume...are you still a person of Faith? or have you just removed yourself from Catholicism? Im an agnostic atheist now. No religion.
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Post by goz on Jan 19, 2020 1:18:16 GMT
If I may presume...are you still a person of Faith? or have you just removed yourself from Catholicism? Im an agnostic atheist now. No religion. Thankyou for your frankness.
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Post by Zos on Jan 20, 2020 9:42:35 GMT
As the infamous "rat line" after WW2 showed, protecting Catholics has always been seen as taking precedence over "mortal" laws.
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Post by Winter_King on Jan 20, 2020 10:05:57 GMT
Well... playing Devil's advocate, Jesus did hang out with "criminals" during his preaching...
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 20, 2020 14:50:50 GMT
They should create a Catch-22 if their beliefs allow.
Simply tell the confessor that if they say anything to them they are being forced to report it, but if they don’t confess their soul is damned for all eternity.
Either the dude leaves without confessing and the church is free of involvement or the dude is actually repentant and confessed anyway...At which point they say forgiveness is tied to turning themselves in.
BOOM! goes the dynamite.
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Post by kls on Jan 20, 2020 15:13:52 GMT
I didn't think the seal of the confessional applied at all if there wasn't a valid confession as in there was no remorse that gave reason to believe the act wouldn't be repeated. A priest who has molested unless he is willing to turn himself is quite likely to commit future crimes. We're not just talking of absolving past ones.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jan 20, 2020 16:47:58 GMT
I didn't think the seal of the confessional applied at all if there wasn't a valid confession as in there was no remorse that gave reason to believe the act wouldn't be repeated. A priest who has molested unless he is willing to turn himself is quite likely to commit future crimes. We're not just talking of absolving past ones. So, in that context, what do you think should be done to address the problem of pedophile priests(1), and (2), get penitents to understand that confession means stopping the bad behavior? I am truly interested as to how a genuine Catholic feels about this, I'm not being confrontational.
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Post by kls on Jan 20, 2020 22:52:25 GMT
I didn't think the seal of the confessional applied at all if there wasn't a valid confession as in there was no remorse that gave reason to believe the act wouldn't be repeated. A priest who has molested unless he is willing to turn himself is quite likely to commit future crimes. We're not just talking of absolving past ones. A priest can’t make the assumption the penitent is lying unless the penitent says something that indicates they are. And I would think a pedo priest who has molested a child/teen and confesses would be sorrowful at the moment and saying to God, the confessor, and himself he’ll never do it again, but as with any compulsion, he will do it again unless he can’t get access to his victims. How do you feel about the church going back to married priests and ordaining women? Not that would be a foolproof solution. If they aren't willing to turn themselves in to the police I don't see how they would be penitent. I agree with married priests and ordaining women (but I don't see why that would cut down on molesting kids).
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Post by kls on Jan 20, 2020 22:53:40 GMT
I didn't think the seal of the confessional applied at all if there wasn't a valid confession as in there was no remorse that gave reason to believe the act wouldn't be repeated. A priest who has molested unless he is willing to turn himself is quite likely to commit future crimes. We're not just talking of absolving past ones. So, in that context, what do you think should be done to address the problem of pedophile priests(1), and (2), get penitents to understand that confession means stopping the bad behavior? I am truly interested as to how a genuine Catholic feels about this, I'm not being confrontational. I'd say go and sin no more is a huge part of repentance. Maybe the biggest.
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Post by goz on Jan 21, 2020 0:11:30 GMT
A priest can’t make the assumption the penitent is lying unless the penitent says something that indicates they are. And I would think a pedo priest who has molested a child/teen and confesses would be sorrowful at the moment and saying to God, the confessor, and himself he’ll never do it again, but as with any compulsion, he will do it again unless he can’t get access to his victims. How do you feel about the church going back to married priests and ordaining women? Not that would be a foolproof solution. If they aren't willing to turn themselves in to the police I don't see how they would be penitent. I agree with married priests and ordaining women (but I don't see why that would cut down on molesting kids). The 'solution' (?) to this problem is that ALL areas where children are cared for by adults, churches schools sporting clubs etc have a zero tolerance for molestation and apply mandatory reporting of any issues or strongly evidence based suspicion ( ie the child's welfare is paramount over an adult) THIS is where the Catholic Church went wrong in covering up the crimes to. cover the Institution of the Catholic Church and NOT putting child welfare ahead of priestly and Church welfare.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 21, 2020 0:13:01 GMT
If they aren't willing to turn themselves in to the police I don't see how they would be penitent. I agree with married priests and ordaining women (but I don't see why that would cut down on molesting kids). The 'solution' (?) to this problem is that ALL areas where children are cared for by adults, churches schools sporting clubs etc have a zero tolerance for molestation and apply mandatory reporting of any issues or strongly evidence based suspicion ( ie the child's welfare is paramount over an adult) THIS is where the Catholic Church went wrong in covering up the crimes to. cover the Institution of the Catholic Church and NOT putting child welfare ahead of priestly and Church welfare. No body would confess if there was any question of lack of secrecy.
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