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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 26, 2020 0:30:03 GMT
LZ defeintly stole the opening rift for "Stairway to Heaven" (as well as ripping off blues musicians). But it's ok because Greta Van Fleet made a career out of ripping LZ off so it balances out:
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 26, 2020 0:32:18 GMT
I'm a huge Zeppelin fan. I'd count them among my top 5 artists with Dylan, Maiden, Beatles, and The Kinks. That said, I've heard Stairway so many times in various contexts, it's so ubiquitous that it's very difficult to hear it with fresh ears and mind. I don't even remember a time when I didn't know of the song--I grew up with my dad playing it, along with a lot of classic rock, on drums. As a kid I thought it rather dull, but I came to love it in my teens, and I think I've settled into an appreciation for it as an adult, but it doesn't excite me anymore. I get why it's a classic and often considered one of the two or three greatest rock songs ever written, but I just don't really feel it anymore. As for The Herald Erjen OP video, I think it's rather reaching. Zeppelin were infamously fans of fantasy and mythology schlock, as The Immigrant Song and The Battle of Evermore (from the same album as Stairway) show. The lyrics are vague nonsense that Plant conjured improvisationally; there's no deep meaning to them. As for the hero's journey stuff, the notion of home -> adventure -> return has long been a part of music. During the classical and romantic era, sonata form was all about this: exposition (statement of themes) -> development (themes are treated to tension via key changes and chromaticism) -> recapitulation (return to original themes). So this structure is not new in the slightest. Even the vast majority of pop music is structured around this, where the verse-chorus-verse structure tends to lead to new material in the bridge before the final return to the chorus. Stairway is different more in that it's a long, slow build to a climax. That has more to do with dynamics and the frequent introduction of new material. If anything, it represents a constant ascent rather than a journey and return. Anyway, it's not among my favorite Zep songs. I'm fond of this underrated and relatively unknown track that was likely a huge influence on 80s metal: As for the plagiarism issue, I actually had an extensive discussion about this on another forum. Here was my analysis of all of Zep's alleged "thefts:" www.talkclassical.com/62575-zeppelin-vs-sabbath-7.html#post1682098Thanks for your input, Eva Yojimbo. And thanks for saying what you really think. Maybe I am reaching. I've liked the song since I-can't-remember-when, and other Zep songs too, but last few days this band and this song in particular have me very preoccupied for some reason. No problem. Always happy to talk about music, especially my favorite bands. You're certainly more in the majority than I am in loving that song, and there's nothing wrong with that! It's a great song, a masterpiece even. My personal history/boredom with it is my own issue. How we react to music has as much to do with time, context, and personality than it does the music itself, and there are far worse bands/songs you could be preoccupied with! I very much get why Stairway entrances people. In a way, I wish I could go back and erase my early exposure to it and be able to hear it with fresh ears in my teens or 20s, which is typically the best time to experience new music anyway. There were a lot of songs that got "ruined" for me because I heard them ad infinitum growing up. Blame classic rock radio!
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 26, 2020 0:41:51 GMT
LZ defeintly stole the opening rift for "Stairway to Heaven" (as well as ripping off blues musicians). But it's ok because Greta Van Fleet made a career out of ripping LZ off so it balances out: What they "stole" is a very common chord progression (Erjen's OP video actually uses an early example of this progression from a baroque composer), and they actually did far more with it in terms of development/elaboration than the Spirit song. That was a consistent thing with Zep's "thefts;" barring a few exceptions (like The Lemon Song and Since I've Been Loving You) they'd take some nugget of an idea and run a mile with it. I especially think Dazed and Confused makes this point, because what makes that song great is how Zeppelin brought dynamicism to it, especially in how it climaxes with that sped-up tempo and barnburning blues solo that's nowhere to be found in the original. I agree that Greta van Fleet, despite having no actual "thefts," is far less original than Zeppelin were even in the songs where they "stole" material. As I mentioned in that other thread I linked to, all art is really just appropriation and rearrangement of pre-existing material anyway. It's always just a matter of degree.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 26, 2020 5:10:49 GMT
I thought this was really cool; Heart performing the song with John Bonham's son on the drums.....but who are those old fossils in the balcony? They look familiar. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by Jonesy1 on Jan 26, 2020 11:49:25 GMT
I thought this was really cool; Heart performing the song with John Bonham's son on the drums.....but who are those old fossils in the balcony? They look familiar. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I'm glad that Ann's hamburger addiction hasn't stopped her from being an awesome singer.
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Post by goz on Jan 26, 2020 22:13:32 GMT
I have never liked this song. Jut doesn't work for me. I fucking HATE that song, always have and always will. If I had to vote for most over-rated song ever, it would be VERY high on the list. edit: just slightly worse than leaving a cake out in the rain.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 26, 2020 22:25:59 GMT
I have never liked this song. Jut doesn't work for me. I fucking HATE that song, always have and always will. If I had to vote for most over-rated song ever, it would be VERY high on the list. edit: just slightly worse than leaving a cake out in the rain. The cake in the rain song is another Erjen fave.
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Post by goz on Jan 26, 2020 22:32:54 GMT
it all, really, Erj! I fucking HATE that song, always have and always will. If I had to vote for most over-rated song ever, it would be VERY high on the list. edit: just slightly worse than leaving a cake out in the rain. The cake in the rain song is another Erjen fave. Says is all really Erj….. ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif)
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 26, 2020 23:53:00 GMT
I fucking HATE that song, always have and always will. If I had to vote for most over-rated song ever, it would be VERY high on the list. edit: just slightly worse than leaving a cake out in the rain. The cake in the rain song is another Erjen fave. How about a fool in the rain:
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 27, 2020 1:52:23 GMT
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 27, 2020 2:03:59 GMT
^ I've seen that video before. Funny stuff. I love that guy's channel in general. He recently posted a cool video of him jamming and chatting with Victor Wooten, one of the best bassists ever.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 27, 2020 2:11:26 GMT
^ I've seen that video before. Funny stuff. I love that guy's channel in general. He recently posted a cool video of him jamming and chatting with Victor Wooten, one of the best bassists ever. Really? I never knew about his channel until today. There's lots more stuff like this, and many interesting POVs. I'm going to get twenty pages out of this thread or bust. And you can contribute, Eva Yojimbo. If you find anything relevant please post it. I'm like Science Officer Ash in that movie "Alien." I love to collate.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 27, 2020 2:42:56 GMT
^ I've seen that video before. Funny stuff. I love that guy's channel in general. He recently posted a cool video of him jamming and chatting with Victor Wooten, one of the best bassists ever. Really? I never knew about his channel until today. There's lots more stuff like this, and many interesting POVs. I'm going to get twenty pages out of this thread or bust. And you can contribute, Eva Yojimbo. If you find anything relevant please post it. I'm like Science Officer Ash in that movie "Alien." I love to collate. I frequent a few YouTube music channels; his is one of them because he's got a good, dry sense of humor and frequently posts enlightening things about music theory and guitar playing. I think I found him through his "legendary licks" series. Another really funny music channel is Davie504. I imagine there's tons of stuff on YT about Zeppelin given their popularity; I'm sure you could easily make this a 20 page thread. I don't know if I'll post any videos myself, but I'll be happy to watch/listen to whatever you post. On second thought, I guess I can post this. Not Stairway related, but a nice intro to the genius of John Bonham:
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 27, 2020 2:50:00 GMT
Really? I never knew about his channel until today. There's lots more stuff like this, and many interesting POVs. I'm going to get twenty pages out of this thread or bust. And you can contribute, Eva Yojimbo. If you find anything relevant please post it. I'm like Science Officer Ash in that movie "Alien." I love to collate. I frequent a few YouTube music channels; his is one of them because he's got a good, dry sense of humor and frequently posts enlightening things about music theory and guitar playing. I think I found him through his "legendary licks" series. Another really funny music channel is Davie504. I imagine there's tons of stuff on YT about Zeppelin given their popularity; I'm sure you could easily make this a 20 page thread. I don't know if I'll post any videos myself, but I'll be happy to watch/listen to whatever you post. On second thought, I guess I can post this. Not Stairway related, but a nice intro to the genius of John Bonham: I noticed that video on my recommended list two or three day ago but didn't click on it. Thanks. I'll watch it now. Over the years I've heard that he was such a good drummer because he sold his soul for it, but of course not everyone is going to believe that kind of thing is possible.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Jan 27, 2020 2:55:12 GMT
I frequent a few YouTube music channels; his is one of them because he's got a good, dry sense of humor and frequently posts enlightening things about music theory and guitar playing. I think I found him through his "legendary licks" series. Another really funny music channel is Davie504. I imagine there's tons of stuff on YT about Zeppelin given their popularity; I'm sure you could easily make this a 20 page thread. I don't know if I'll post any videos myself, but I'll be happy to watch/listen to whatever you post. On second thought, I guess I can post this. Not Stairway related, but a nice intro to the genius of John Bonham: Over the years I've heard that he was such a good drummer because he sold his soul for it, but of course not everyone is going to believe that kind of thing is possible. The same was said about Robert Johnson.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 27, 2020 2:58:57 GMT
I frequent a few YouTube music channels; his is one of them because he's got a good, dry sense of humor and frequently posts enlightening things about music theory and guitar playing. I think I found him through his "legendary licks" series. Another really funny music channel is Davie504. I imagine there's tons of stuff on YT about Zeppelin given their popularity; I'm sure you could easily make this a 20 page thread. I don't know if I'll post any videos myself, but I'll be happy to watch/listen to whatever you post. On second thought, I guess I can post this. Not Stairway related, but a nice intro to the genius of John Bonham: I noticed that video on my recommended list two or three day ago but didn't click on it. Thanks. I'll watch it now. Over the years I've heard that he was such a good drummer because he sold his soul for it, but of course not everyone is going to believe that kind of thing is possible. The "sold his soul to be a virtuoso" is a pretty common myth in music at this point. Perhaps the most legendary example being the blues guitarist Robert Johnson. I remember the TV show Supernatural actually did an episode on the legend and I still remember this scene from it: Edit: Jonesy1 ninja'd me! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 27, 2020 3:13:27 GMT
Robert Johnson seems to be the American version of Faust. Me, I'd still like to get a book published and maybe produce/direct, but not enough to give up my soul for it. Jonesy1 and Eva Yojimbo, if you have never seen the movie "Shock 'em Dead," I recommend it highly. It's about a nerd who sells his soul to become the greatest rock guitarist in the world. There's a song in it called I'm in Love with a Slut, and although it's a parody of a rock song I think it could have been a hit in real life.
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Post by Winter_King on Jan 27, 2020 9:56:17 GMT
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Post by Jonesy1 on Jan 27, 2020 9:56:47 GMT
Robert Johnson seems to be the American version of Faust. Me, I'd still like to get a book published and maybe produce/direct, but not enough to give up my soul for it. Jonesy1 and Eva Yojimbo , if you have never seen the movie "Shock 'em Dead," I recommend it highly. It's about a nerd who sells his soul to become the greatest rock guitarist in the world. There's a song in it called I'm in Love with a Slut, and although it's a parody of a rock song I think it could have been a hit in real life. I'm not convinced that either John Bonham or Robert Johnson sold their souls, in Johnson's case most of the stories came about almost 20 years after his death, in Bonham's case most rock stars have been accused of devil worship or satanic dealings but there's nothing really conclusive. It's more likely that the reason they were both accomplished is down to determination, dedication and lots of practice. Not heard of Shock 'Em Dead but the write up looks similar to Oh God, You Devil.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 10:09:51 GMT
I noticed that video on my recommended list two or three day ago but didn't click on it. Thanks. I'll watch it now. Over the years I've heard that he was such a good drummer because he sold his soul for it, but of course not everyone is going to believe that kind of thing is possible. The "sold his soul to be a virtuoso" is a pretty common myth in music at this point. Perhaps the most legendary example being the blues guitarist Robert Johnson. I remember the TV show Supernatural actually did an episode on the legend and I still remember this scene from it: Edit: Jonesy1 ninja'd me! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Crossroads (1986) is a good film with the Robert Johnson myth at its core...
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