egon1982
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Post by egon1982 on Feb 26, 2020 13:21:53 GMT
Even though I love Halloween and am a big Carpenter fan, I believe F13 was just as influential. The Matrix certainly. The Thin Man for comedies and maybe sequels. Alien for sci-fi/horror. Jaws for water predator horror. Night of the Living Dead and Return of the Living Dead combined created the modern zombie monster. Airport for disaster genre. DOTD 2004 for fast zombies. Are you forgetting Nightmare City and Return of the Living Dead created fast zombies?
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Post by sostie on Feb 26, 2020 14:00:18 GMT
I think 28 Days Later, two years earlier, may be as much if not more responsible/influential. Though 28DL is only really a zombie film in spirit. There were certainly running zombies before then...Nightmare City (1980) springs to mind. What about Return of the Living Dead? Yeah it's another early fast zombie film. But I wouldn't say it was imitated or inspired many films that followed. At least not the fast zombie aspect. It was nearly 2 decades after ROTLD that 28 Days Later arrived, and I can't think of many, or any, fast zombie films that followed in it's wake. The same cannot be said for 28DL. As with Halloween, there were slasher films before it, but it was the arrival of Halloween that saw a flurry of imitators
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Post by sostie on Feb 26, 2020 14:11:23 GMT
Jaws inspired several imitators like Orca (1977), Piranha (1978), Tentacles (1977), Killer Fish (1979), Barracuda (1978), Tintorera (1977), Blood Beach (1980), The Last Shark (1981), Up from the Depths (1979), Screamers (1979), Devil Fish (1984) and Mako: The Jaws of Death (1976). I think you could probably add the likes of Alligator, Grizzly, maybe even Razorback, Lake Placid & Anaconda (and more) ,to that list. Then there are all those awful Asylum films. So far away from when Jaws was released Mega Shark Versus Giant Octopus might be another example. Which in turn set off a whole flurry (or slurry) of similar films....Mega Shark series, Sharknado series, Mega Piranha, 2-Headed Shark Attack etc etc.
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egon1982
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Post by egon1982 on Feb 26, 2020 16:11:05 GMT
What about Return of the Living Dead? Yeah it's another early fast zombie film. But I wouldn't say it was imitated or inspired many films that followed. At least not the fast zombie aspect. It was nearly 2 decades after ROTLD that 28 Days Later arrived, and I can't think of many, or any, fast zombie films that followed in it's wake. The same cannot be said for 28DL. As with Halloween, there were slasher films before it, but it was the arrival of Halloween that saw a flurry of imitators Lifeforce had early fast zombies being the victims of the alien vampires. 28 Days Later are really more in common with The Crazies and Cannibal Apocalypse than undead creatures in terms of infected humans
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Post by Sarge on Feb 26, 2020 18:10:54 GMT
I knew of and saw it before the remake was even announced, and it did influence at least one movie: Halloween. That was an allegation by Bob Lawsuit Clark, it has been debunked. It's one of those things that seems credible on the surface since BC came out first but it falls apart under scrutiny. BC was an obscure, boring, little film that lacked a proper protagonist and ending. It appeared in few theaters and did poorly. Then Clark tried to wring money from Carpenter by saying Halloween was a rip-off. That went nowhere since Halloween was already in the works under a different title before BC.
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Post by Sarge on Feb 26, 2020 18:17:30 GMT
Even though I love Halloween and am a big Carpenter fan, I believe F13 was just as influential. The Matrix certainly. The Thin Man for comedies and maybe sequels. Alien for sci-fi/horror. Jaws for water predator horror. Night of the Living Dead and Return of the Living Dead combined created the modern zombie monster. Airport for disaster genre. DOTD 2004 for fast zombies. I think 28 Days Later, two years earlier, may be as much if not more responsible/influential. Though 28DL is only really a zombie film in spirit. There were certainly running zombies before then...Nightmare City (1980) springs to mind. 28 Days Later is a successor to Romero's The Crazies, infected humans, although both genres share many similarities because they have the same origin. This is a thread about influence, those Italian Z movies didn't create a wave of imitators.
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Post by Sarge on Feb 26, 2020 18:25:35 GMT
What about Return of the Living Dead? Yeah it's another early fast zombie film. But I wouldn't say it was imitated or inspired many films that followed; What do zombies eat? Brains! That started with ROTLD. But I agree that it didn't influence zombie mobility much.
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Post by vegalyra on Feb 26, 2020 18:33:17 GMT
The big budget widescreen epic Hollywood films like The Robe, Samson and Delilah, The Egyptian, The Ten Commandments, etc. inspired literally hundreds of Italian and American sword and sandal films in the late 1950's and early 1960's.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 26, 2020 18:46:38 GMT
I knew of and saw it before the remake was even announced, and it did influence at least one movie: Halloween. That was an allegation by Bob Lawsuit Clark, it has been debunked. It's one of those things that seems credible on the surface since BC came out first but it falls apart under scrutiny. BC was an obscure, boring, little film that lacked a proper protagonist and ending. It appeared in few theaters and did poorly. Then Clark tried to wring money from Carpenter by saying Halloween was a rip-off. That went nowhere since Halloween was already in the works under a different title before BC. "That went nowhere since Halloween was already in the works under a different title before BC." I actually didn't know that. If anything I would say Friday the 13th part 2 was inspired by "The Town that Dread Sundown" (Jason's mask was clearly a ripoff)
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Post by sostie on Feb 26, 2020 19:23:04 GMT
Yeah it's another early fast zombie film. But I wouldn't say it was imitated or inspired many films that followed. At least not the fast zombie aspect. It was nearly 2 decades after ROTLD that 28 Days Later arrived, and I can't think of many, or any, fast zombie films that followed in it's wake. The same cannot be said for 28DL. As with Halloween, there were slasher films before it, but it was the arrival of Halloween that saw a flurry of imitators Lifeforce had early fast zombies being the victims of the alien vampires. 28 Days Later are really more in common with The Crazies and Cannibal Apocalypse than undead creatures in terms of infected humans But again did Lifeforce inspire a wave of imitators? From Nightmare City in 1980 up to 28 Days Later how many "fast zombie" films were there? Five at my count, if you count Lifeforce and exclude the ROTLD sequels...none of those spawned any imitators really in those 24 years When 28 Days Later arrived fast zombies (and I emphasise that I know they are not actually zombies) were a talking point. A subject discussed online (which may have been discussed if the web was around for the earlier films) amongst horror and regular film fans. That it was a sizeable box office success and critically well recieved made it part of the zeitgeist Post 28 Days Later we had fast zombie/zombie like movies such as Dawn Of The Dead, Train To Busan, 28 Weeks Later, Day Of The Dead, Dead Snow series, REC series, Zombieland 1&2, Quarantine, I Am Legend, La Horde, Resident Evil series, House Of The Dead, World War Z, the TV series Dead Set, Z Nation, Black Summer...and that is in 16 years, and just the ones I can instantly recall. There is an argument that 28 Days Later rekindled the zombie genre...sure they were around constantly before, mostly straight to DVD or little seen Asian films, but there is no doubt in my mind it is responsible for the increase in fast zombie films
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Post by sostie on Feb 26, 2020 19:24:17 GMT
Yeah it's another early fast zombie film. But I wouldn't say it was imitated or inspired many films that followed; What do zombies eat? Brains! That started with ROTLD. But I agree that it didn't influence zombie mobility much. I actually don't recall any other zombie films where the brain was the snack of choice for the undead
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Feb 26, 2020 21:46:20 GMT
I knew of and saw it before the remake was even announced, and it did influence at least one movie: Halloween. That was an allegation by Bob Lawsuit Clark, it has been debunked. It's one of those things that seems credible on the surface since BC came out first but it falls apart under scrutiny. BC was an obscure, boring, little film that lacked a proper protagonist and ending. It appeared in few theaters and did poorly. Then Clark tried to wring money from Carpenter by saying Halloween was a rip-off. That went nowhere since Halloween was already in the works under a different title before BC. Well it's a good thing I'm debating a nonbiased person here. First of all, I don't see anything about Bob Clark filing a lawsuit. In the quotes I've found, he even defends Carpenter to a degree. If you're making that up, not really cool to slander a dead man. Speaking of made up things, "The Babysitter Murders" was not conceived until after Assault on Precinct 13, and thus years after BC had already been released. The producer came up with a guy stalking babysitters on Halloween during a plane trip and immediately went to Carpenter, who came up with the rest. How much "the rest" involved Bob Clark is a grey area, but at the very least, Carpenter has admitted to seeing that "boring little film". He even knew Bob Clark and had collaborated with him on an unproduced horror movie in the mid-70s. So the "BC is too obscure and shitty for Carpenter to know about" argument doesn't really hold water. books.google.com/books?id=91cZBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=john+carpenter+bob+clark+mountains+script&source=bl&ots=tA1C_CAJJO&sig=ACfU3U0Fbh0x0wRclksEFx3ZP-3Vgvf6bA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDmc3lifDnAhW8JjQIHZEtDRkQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=john%20carpenter%20bob%20clark%20mountains%20script&f=falseLike Clark himself, I'm not calling it an outright rip-off. Just an influence, which is patently obvious to anyone who has seen the opening scenes of each.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 26, 2020 21:50:02 GMT
Halloween? It practically invented the slasher genre. Technically thats probably correct, but I remember an entire SUB-GENRE of Road Warrior Wasteland B movies in the 80's! Cheap to make I guess. So Mad Max 2 the Road Warrior?
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Post by sostie on Feb 26, 2020 21:53:45 GMT
Halloween? It practically invented the slasher genre. an entire SUB-GENRE of Road Warrior Wasteland B movies in the 80's! Cheap to make I guess. So Mad Max 2 the Road Warrior? God I love those films
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 22:32:21 GMT
moviemouth Sarge I see what you're saying. I was thinking of it in a different way. Movies like Peeping Tom, Psycho, BC, TCM, Private Parts influencing horror directors in general. I wasn't thinking about the movie itself being the inspiration. Which is what the OP asked. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png) Reading is fundamental and something I need to work on. lol
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 26, 2020 23:34:11 GMT
I don't consider TCM a slasher movie. I was surprised the first time I read that, but nowadays there are people who call almost any horror movie a "slasher." To be honest, I don't consider any movie prior to Halloween a slasher. Black Christmas kinda but it definitely wasn't influential because it remained obscure until marketing companies revived it to stir interest in the 2006 remake. I knew of and saw it before the remake was even announced, and it did influence at least one movie: Halloween. I heard of it before the remake, but didn't see it until a couple years later. I'm not sure why it took me so long either. I use to rent a ton of horror movies when I was a teenager and had even seen movies like Near Dark and Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer long before Black Christmas. The House That Screamed (1969) shares similarities to Black Christmas. A group of girls in a school for girls are killed off one by one by a mysterious killer. I recommend the movie if you haven't seen it.
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egon1982
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Post by egon1982 on Feb 27, 2020 1:33:09 GMT
Lifeforce had early fast zombies being the victims of the alien vampires. 28 Days Later are really more in common with The Crazies and Cannibal Apocalypse than undead creatures in terms of infected humans But again did Lifeforce inspire a wave of imitators? From Nightmare City in 1980 up to 28 Days Later how many "fast zombie" films were there? Five at my count, if you count Lifeforce and exclude the ROTLD sequels...none of those spawned any imitators really in those 24 years When 28 Days Later arrived fast zombies (and I emphasise that I know they are not actually zombies) were a talking point. A subject discussed online (which may have been discussed if the web was around for the earlier films) amongst horror and regular film fans. That it was a sizeable box office success and critically well recieved made it part of the zeitgeist Post 28 Days Later we had fast zombie/zombie like movies such as Dawn Of The Dead, Train To Busan, 28 Weeks Later, Day Of The Dead, Dead Snow series, REC series, Zombieland 1&2, Quarantine, I Am Legend, La Horde, Resident Evil series, House Of The Dead, World War Z, the TV series Dead Set, Z Nation, Black Summer...and that is in 16 years, and just the ones I can instantly recall. There is an argument that 28 Days Later rekindled the zombie genre...sure they were around constantly before, mostly straight to DVD or little seen Asian films, but there is no doubt in my mind it is responsible for the increase in fast zombie films The 28 Days Later creatures are infected humans, not really zombies. Same thing goes for REC as they are demons like in Lamberto Bava's Demons. Same thing goes for House by the Cemetery which i don't count as zombie movie because Dr Freudstein is a mutant immortal supernatural creature who was once human who conducted experiments on himself for immortality then decayed over decades and all. Same thing goes for Creepshow's Something to Tide you Over Story as they aren't zombies but rather reveneants as vengeful spirits while Nathan is a zombie. Even Pet Sematary movies/book don't count as zombies as they are demon possessed corpses who are possessed by a Wendigo (a Native American/Canadian demon spirit) that haunts the burial ground and uses human corpses as it's puppets and are resurrected as demons who return to torment the living as you can kill them anyway even injections of morphine as they have high intelligence, can speak with different voices like Reagan in Exorcist does and all.
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Post by Sarge on Feb 27, 2020 6:14:53 GMT
What do zombies eat? Brains! That started with ROTLD. But I agree that it didn't influence zombie mobility much. I actually don't recall any other zombie films where the brain was the snack of choice for the undead You might be right. I was thinking in the larger context of zombie lore but now that you mention it, I can't think of any that wasn't a ROTLD sequel.
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Post by Sarge on Feb 27, 2020 6:40:10 GMT
There is an argument that 28 Days Later rekindled the zombie genre...sure they were around constantly before, mostly straight to DVD or little seen Asian films, but there is no doubt in my mind it is responsible for the increase in fast zombie films I would argue it did rekindle interest in zombie movies even though they weren't technically zombies. Also an obscure Australian film called Undead (2003) only because there weren't many good zombie movies back then it was a short lived hit among fans. Infected humans and zombies both have the same origin: Romero; and the same influences which include John Wyndham's Day of the Triffids and Matheson's I Am Legend.
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Post by Sarge on Feb 27, 2020 6:45:28 GMT
That was an allegation by Bob Lawsuit Clark, it has been debunked. It's one of those things that seems credible on the surface since BC came out first but it falls apart under scrutiny. BC was an obscure, boring, little film that lacked a proper protagonist and ending. It appeared in few theaters and did poorly. Then Clark tried to wring money from Carpenter by saying Halloween was a rip-off. That went nowhere since Halloween was already in the works under a different title before BC. Well it's a good thing I'm debating a nonbiased person here. First of all, I don't see anything about Bob Clark filing a lawsuit. In the quotes I've found, he even defends Carpenter to a degree. If you're making that up, not really cool to slander a dead man. Speaking of made up things, "The Babysitter Murders" was not conceived until after Assault on Precinct 13, and thus years after BC had already been released. The producer came up with a guy stalking babysitters on Halloween during a plane trip and immediately went to Carpenter, who came up with the rest. How much "the rest" involved Bob Clark is a grey area, but at the very least, Carpenter has admitted to seeing that "boring little film". He even knew Bob Clark and had collaborated with him on an unproduced horror movie in the mid-70s. So the "BC is too obscure and shitty for Carpenter to know about" argument doesn't really hold water. books.google.com/books?id=91cZBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=john+carpenter+bob+clark+mountains+script&source=bl&ots=tA1C_CAJJO&sig=ACfU3U0Fbh0x0wRclksEFx3ZP-3Vgvf6bA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDmc3lifDnAhW8JjQIHZEtDRkQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=john%20carpenter%20bob%20clark%20mountains%20script&f=falseLike Clark himself, I'm not calling it an outright rip-off. Just an influence, which is patently obvious to anyone who has seen the opening scenes of each. Well I would never want to be uncool. I probably was being unfair to Bob Clark, afterall he did make one of all time favorite Christmas movies, but he certainly wanted credit that wasn't due him. You say obvious but it isn't obvious to me nor is it obvious to many others, and it certainly wasn't obvious enough for Clark's lawyers. I researched all this very thoroughly about 15 years ago just prior to the first remake, as did many others, because the marketing teams were hyping BC big time as the movie that started the slasher genre and that Halloween was a ripoff of Black Christmas. Now I'm going to be honest, my notes don't exist anymore, the article I wrote doesn't exist anymore, and I may be fuzzy on some details, but generally speaking what I'm saying is true. Also, I didn't say "BC is too obscure and shitty for Carpenter to know about" and would appreciate it if you didn't mischaracterize my posts. This isn't the place to debate the quality of BC But it was obscure and did not inspire imitators.
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