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Post by Skaathar on Mar 8, 2020 17:44:23 GMT
What made Fox's X-men movies such a hit and miss gamble? Why couldn't they keep up with the MCU despite them having the more recognizable characters and the longer history of cbms?
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Post by politicidal on Mar 8, 2020 18:01:34 GMT
Falling back on ideas that weren't good the first time like redoing the Dark Phoenix saga, having nincompoops like Tom Rothman in charge, and having one helluva confusing series continuity.
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Post by hobowar on Mar 8, 2020 18:08:28 GMT
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Mar 8, 2020 18:09:42 GMT
I'd say it largely have to do with being unable to move away from the plot point of mutants being persecuted, as well as exploring new characters. The original series is really almost about just Wolverine, especially the second one, while everyone else is sidelined. Then they go ahead and retcon his origins again with Origins and screwed that up. Then they can't figure out whether they want Magneto to truly be a villain or anti-villain/hero. First Class made the first attempt of doing something new, but then DoFP went straight back to the basics. As good DoFP was, it was also the poison chalice as well. They had too many stories going on in Last Stand, but I thought it was pretty ballsy how they killed off Xavier and could have used that moving forward, for the heroes and Magneto. But at the end of the day, all the series remained about were either Wolverine or Xavier and Magneto.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Mar 8, 2020 18:15:26 GMT
They never went wrong. Most of them are masterpieces. The only movie which arguably has flaws is "X-MEN ORIGINS". I would say that it's the "least" of the bunch. Still, it's a very entertaining movie which retains the "sense of adventure" of the Wolverine solo comic book of the Eighties.
The Last Stand is a bleak superhero movie, Apocalypse is the most X-Men-ish entry (very epic) and "The Wolverine" is a great solo movie.
The entire franchise will be regarded as classic in the future to come.
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Post by summers8 on Mar 8, 2020 18:18:36 GMT
They had some bad directors and did not have a main clear plan. DOFP should have ended the main series and Logan for Hugh.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 18:27:42 GMT
I just think the roles weren't well researched. The first film was decent, but safe. Almost offensively safe. They played it too conservative, not in the political sense, but the liberties they took with the roles; they just weren't there. The color, the uniforms...Patrick Stewart started out strong, Wolverine was a terrific discovery and Ian McKellan was good, but the franchise didn't knock any of them out of the park.
I didn't think it rewarded the long-standing mentality that the powers that make people fear us the most are what makes us strong, just like most real life talents people are afraid to express. With the X-Men, I find there's a relationship between characters and their powers that enriches the subtext. Rogue is a charming, affectionate Southern woman who can't touch; Logan is an instantly regenerative animal who never heels; Professor X has one of the most powerful minds in the world and he's confined to a chair. The X-Men dabble in balancing their powers with their shortcomings, therefore showing their power as their greatest strengths. The X-Men movies didn't do any of that. At least not in any great doses.
I'll throw down Bryan Singer as a possibility, something that "went wrong".
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 8, 2020 18:30:43 GMT
They never went wrong. Most of them are masterpieces. The only movie which arguably has flaws is "X-MEN ORIGINS". I would say that it's the "least" of the bunch. Still, it's a very entertaining movie which retains the "sense of adventure" of the Wolverine solo comic book of the Eighties. The Last Stand is a bleak superhero movie, Apocalypse is the most X-Men-ish entry (very epic) and "The Wolverine" is a great solo movie. The entire franchise will be regarded as classic in the future to come. Box office, critic reviews and audience reception all disagree with you. |
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Mar 8, 2020 18:38:08 GMT
They never went wrong. Most of them are masterpieces. The only movie which arguably has flaws is "X-MEN ORIGINS". I would say that it's the "least" of the bunch. Still, it's a very entertaining movie which retains the "sense of adventure" of the Wolverine solo comic book of the Eighties. The Last Stand is a bleak superhero movie, Apocalypse is the most X-Men-ish entry (very epic) and "The Wolverine" is a great solo movie. The entire franchise will be regarded as classic in the future to come. Box office, critic reviews and audience reception all disagree with you. 'The Last Stand' was the most commercially successful entry out of the original trilogy. 'Apocalypse' grossed 543,9 million dollars. Critic reviews? We don't care about them.
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Post by onethreetwo on Mar 8, 2020 18:42:04 GMT
They were on shaky ground from the beginning not giving Cyclops a larger role and using those grounded costumes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 18:46:52 GMT
They were on shaky ground from the beginning not giving Cyclops a larger role and using those grounded costumes. What would you prefer, yellow spandex? Do you even know what happens to a toad when it gets struck by lightning, brah?
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Mar 8, 2020 18:47:10 GMT
They never went wrong. Most of them are masterpieces. The only movie which arguably has flaws is "X-MEN ORIGINS". I would say that it's the "least" of the bunch. Still, it's a very entertaining movie which retains the "sense of adventure" of the Wolverine solo comic book of the Eighties. The Last Stand is a bleak superhero movie, Apocalypse is the most X-Men-ish entry (very epic) and "The Wolverine" is a great solo movie. The entire franchise will be regarded as classic in the future to come. Good luck arguing Last Stand, Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix are "masterpieces". If they are in your mind, then you have extremely low standards. More power to you if that's the case. |
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 8, 2020 19:26:56 GMT
Box office, critic reviews and audience reception all disagree with you. 'The Last Stand' was the most commercially successful entry out of the original trilogy. 'Apocalypse' grossed 543,9 million dollars. Critic reviews? We don't care about them. In other words, they can't match the MCU movies. |
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 8, 2020 19:27:10 GMT
Only some of the original cast were interesting (Jackman, Stewart, McKellan, Paquin), the rest were boring (Marsden, Berry, Janssen).
But they were more interesting than the new cast, so it is just diminishing returns.
Fact is, they cannot do a good X-men now because Disney is not going to pick someone macho enough for Wolverine. Even if he becomes darker in hue they will make him kind of feeble and jokey.
He has a better chance of being tough if they make him transgender, then Disney would be supportive.
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Post by scabab on Mar 8, 2020 19:57:08 GMT
'The Last Stand' was the most commercially successful entry out of the original trilogy. 'Apocalypse' grossed 543,9 million dollars. X-Men 3 cost that much that it wasn't as successful as X-Men 2 maybe not even X-Men either. Apocalypse also came after the overseas boom so can't be compared to the movies before that. Plus from Days of Future Past to Apocalypse to Dark Phoenix the movies saw a severe drop off.
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Post by dazz on Mar 8, 2020 20:39:18 GMT
'The Last Stand' was the most commercially successful entry out of the original trilogy. 'Apocalypse' grossed 543,9 million dollars. X-Men 3 cost that much that it wasn't as successful as X-Men 2 maybe not even X-Men either. Apocalypse also came after the overseas boom so can't be compared to the movies before that. Plus from Days of Future Past to Apocalypse to Dark Phoenix the movies saw a severe drop off. Damn beat me to it.
Also due to the rate of inflation from 2003 to 2016 the $407.7m X2 made would translate into $531.8m, which means with 13 years of greater pop culture exposure, coming off the highest grossing entry in the franchise yet, signing talent from the hottest properties at the time, 3D and I-Max inflated ticket prices AND the international movie boom Apocalypse only made the equivalent of $12.1m more than X2, whilst X2 cost the equivalent of $15m less to make, let alone market.
That's kind of hilarious especially when you factor in even just $100m in marketing it means Apocalypse likely lost several million dollars at the box office, as it would put the cost at about $280m and with most of it's money coming internationally means it would need to minimally do over double that number which it failed to do so, thank god for syndication and home media sales, same goes for The Last Stand as well, such great "success's".
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