|
Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 27, 2020 14:07:35 GMT
That, or they'll use the magic dohickey Rafi and Rios used to fix the ship to correct the ship to fix whatever was wrong with Picard and bring him back to life; because it's an ambiguously defined device that can repair whatever you want if you just have a little imagination. And don't forget, even though this doesn't take place in the Kelvin timeline, it is still produced by the same production company who gave us Kahn's magic blood that can reverse death... Where did the magic dohickey come from? It must have been introduced on an earlier episode but I have no recollection of it - which shows just how much attention I was paying while watching this series!
|
|
|
Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 14:32:56 GMT
Yeah, are Raffi and Seven lesbian lovers now? What? Did I doze off during the finale and missed something? In the last scene, they showed Agnes kiss Rios, then panned down to show Rafi and Seven sitting at the table, holding hands in an arguably intimate way.
|
|
|
Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 14:35:42 GMT
That, or they'll use the magic dohickey Rafi and Rios used to fix the ship to correct the ship to fix whatever was wrong with Picard and bring him back to life; because it's an ambiguously defined device that can repair whatever you want if you just have a little imagination. And don't forget, even though this doesn't take place in the Kelvin timeline, it is still produced by the same production company who gave us Kahn's magic blood that can reverse death... Where did the magic dohickey come from? It must have been introduced on an earlier episode but I have no recollection of it - which shows just how much attention I was paying while watching this series! /\ This
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 14:59:42 GMT
Yeah, are Raffi and Seven lesbian lovers now? Who knows? I'm less concerned about Seven's or Rafi's sexuality being more fluid than had previously been let into, than the fact that this, along with Rios and Agnes, came out of the clear blue sky, without any apparent ground work leading up to it. I mean, had Seven and Rafi spent even give minutes of screen time together this season? Had Rios and Agnes? It took me a minute to remember that it was Narissa, not Rafi, who commented on Seven being attractive, right before their fight. So if there was anything to suggest this was coming, it was blink and miss it; same, again, for Agnes and Rios. If anything, I was kind of starting to expect them to be developing something between Rios and Rafi; particularly after the scene where they fixed the ship. As for the fight between Seven and Narissa, I was a little disappointed in how easily Narissa disarmed Seven and had the upper hand for as long as she did; even if Seven ultimately won. I feel like Seven should have had quicker reflexes than that. I believe Agnes and Rios had an affair in an earlier episode. (I'm not sure, Google doesn't list who's who.) But Raffi and Seven did nothing other than commiserate when we were supposed to believe Picard --- the title character --- had died in season one. I guess these are supposed to be teasers for season two.
|
|
|
Post by kleinreturns on Mar 27, 2020 15:07:00 GMT
They purposely made Brent Spiner look like he did in Nemesis because that is how Data last looked and it wouldn't look convincing to make Brent look exactly as he did on the TNG TV show decades ago even with fancy CGI. You can only go so far in making a 71 year old look young with CGI. To be honest, i liked that particular TNG/DS9 era uniform on Data better than the others. I don't understand why didn't Data call Picard "Admiral" instead of "Captain"(he was aware of Soji who was far beyond his experiences during Nemesis and seemed to known about the Android Golum experiment so he must have known that Picard had been promoted)  Also why didn't Data make any attempt to speak to Soji (his daughter) or his Biological brother Dr. Soong before his death???
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 15:12:10 GMT
That, or they'll use the magic dohickey Rafi and Rios used to fix the ship to correct the ship to fix whatever was wrong with Picard and bring him back to life; because it's an ambiguously defined device that can repair whatever you want if you just have a little imagination. And don't forget, even though this doesn't take place in the Kelvin timeline, it is still produced by the same production company who gave us Kahn's magic blood that can reverse death... Where did the magic dohickey come from? It must have been introduced on an earlier episode but I have no recollection of it - which shows just how much attention I was paying while watching this series! Now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing that magic duhickey before. I guess consistent with stargazer's point, maybe I was already used to unexplained stuff popping up. Consistent with your's, I wasn't really paying that close attention either. Once again, Star Trek is no longer about discovering new worlds, phenomena or "going where no man has gone before". It's really just about personality conflicts, morals, ethics, characters causing trouble for no other reason than plot lines and arbitrary conflict. Kinda like "The Real Housewives of Outer Space" and "Jerry Springer". I blame this on women. Men like discovering new worlds, phenomena, species, and "going where no man has gone before". Women like personality conflicts, people causing trouble for no reason, The Real Housewives and Jerry Springer. CBS is trying to attract female viewers.
|
|
|
Post by wolf359 on Mar 27, 2020 15:42:43 GMT
Where did the magic dohickey come from? It must have been introduced on an earlier episode but I have no recollection of it - which shows just how much attention I was paying while watching this series! Now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing that magic duhickey before. I guess consistent with stargazer's point, maybe I was already used to unexplained stuff popping up. Consistent with your's, I wasn't really paying that close attention either. Once again, Star Trek is no longer about discovering new worlds, phenomena or "going where no man has gone before". It's really just about personality conflicts, morals, ethics, characters causing trouble for no other reason than plot lines and arbitrary conflict. Kinda like "The Real Housewives of Outer Space" and "Jerry Springer". I blame this on women. Men like discovering new worlds, phenomena, species, and "going where no man has gone before". Women like personality conflicts, people causing trouble for no reason, The Real Housewives and Jerry Springer. CBS is trying to attract female viewers.
"Star Trek is no longer about discovering new worlds, phenomena or "going where no man has gone before"." ------------------------------------------------
That's not entirely true!
A Majority of it is indeed true but not all of it.
That Synthetics Planet was a Strange New World where no man (except Brent Spiner's character) had gone before and it had things that were never seen before in "STAR TREK" like those Giant Space Flower Things and also those Giant Tentacle things coming out of that Space Vortex (and Yes, I know that we have indeed seen Space Vortexes themselves before on "STAR TREK" but not like that one).
|
|
|
Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 27, 2020 15:54:51 GMT
What? Did I doze off during the finale and missed something? In the last scene, they showed Agnes kiss Rios, then panned down to show Rafi and Seven sitting at the table, holding hands in an arguably intimate way.
Ah! Just re-watched that scene. I must have been looking at my phone at that moment the first time.
What a bizarre, out-of-left-field scene that was. It's almost like the producers realised "oh shit, if we finish the season without any gay content we'll be crucified in social media. Quickly, which of our characters can we turn gay?"
|
|
|
Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 15:56:45 GMT
They purposely made Brent Spiner look like he did in Nemesis because that is how Data last looked and it wouldn't look convincing to make Brent look exactly as he did on the TNG TV show decades ago even with fancy CGI. You can only go so far in making a 71 year old look young with CGI. To be honest, i liked that particular TNG/DS9 era uniform on Data better than the others. I don't understand why didn't Data call Picard "Admiral" instead of "Captain"(he was aware of Soji who was far beyond his experiences during Nemesis and seemed to known about the Android Golum experiment so he must have known that Picard had been promoted)  Also why didn't Data make any attempt to speak to Soji (his daughter) or his Biological brother Dr. Soong before his death??? I think the uniforms ST Picard has introduced are probably related to the aforementioned licensing issue; and the two or three times we've seen someone like Picard or Data wear something from TNG or the TNG movies, there might have been slight differences to satisfy that agreement. In the earlier episodes where we saw, say, Data or Picard in uniform, the observation I made right off the bat was that they didn't look "right". They looked ill-fitted, almost like they looked more like a homemade costume that wasn't completely to spec. In episode 10, Data's movie uniform looked a little better, but there wasn't a ton of movement and it was pretty low lit, that any differences probably wouldn't be as noticeable; which may have been the point. And it may have also again, been close enough to Viacom and CBS finalizing their re-merger that it just didn't matter any more. I do agree, while I didn't initially like the darker tone of those uniforms back in the day when they were first introduced, they did grow on me; and I liked them a lot more than what past series showed the future uniform designs would be. I don't think it's unusual for Data to still call Picard Captain, despite him having been promoted. Despite Data's awareness of more current events - which I found more unusual than him calling Picard Captain - Captain is the title Data is more familiar with in association with Picard; and since Picard is retired and doesn't hold any rank, it's pretty much Data's discretion what he feels comfortable referring to him as. I had actually made the opposite observation when Picard caught up with Riker and Troi; that it seemed odd for them to be calling him Jean Luc. Even though their relationship may be less formal now, I would think both would still be inclined to refer to him as Captain, not because of the chain of command or protocol, but because it's the name, after a fashion, that they applied to this man for so long; that "captain" would become as much as term of endearment long after he stopped being a captain or even an officer, because it's familiar and comfortable. It'd be like if a teacher you used to have told you start calling them by their first name, after years of thinking of them as Mr or Mrs. So-and-So. You might make the adjustment, but I know from experience, even after 20 years, it's still fucking weird. I kind of think Brent has been so keen for so long on Data being dead, so that he doesn't have to play him anymore; it's the best reason I can think of for how they kept the character's memory alive, without literally bringing him back. While there's no doubt he came to love working with his costars, he's very close with most or all of them, and he liked getting paid and obviously has no problem coming back to Star Trek in other ways; I've often gotten the impression that Brent Spiner was never too enamored with the role of Data himself. And I imagine a lot of it had to do with the make-up and perhaps some of the limitations that might have stemmed from it; which is understandable and maybe a little unfortunate. But you know, he helped develop the story for Nemesis, if memory serves, and seemed to almost delight in killing off Data. All the same, as has been said, they could have easily rectified a lot of those issues by bringing him back in a more human like body that can and has aged; and it would have all amounted to the same thing, without undermining the story they intended to tell.
|
|
|
Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 27, 2020 16:03:07 GMT
And how the fuck did Riker manage to not only arrange to reactivate his service, but put in command in picked up in time to arrive at the planet when they did? Picard only left him a day or two ago; and then promptly used a Borg transwarp conduit to get to the planet. Picard even marveled at the distance they managed to traverse in such a short amount of time. Maybe Earth and all other main Federation planets are on lockdown because of a new virus and the only crew members that Starfleet could find were those residing in planets not affected by quarantine? Still wouldn't explain how he could get there so fast, though...
|
|
|
Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 16:05:12 GMT
In the last scene, they showed Agnes kiss Rios, then panned down to show Rafi and Seven sitting at the table, holding hands in an arguably intimate way.
Ah! Just re-watched that scene. I must have been looking at my phone at that moment the first time.
What a bizarre, out-of-left-field scene that was. It's almost like the producers realised "oh shit, if we finish the season without any gay content we'll be crucified in social media. Quickly, which of our characters can we turn gay?"
I wouldn't go that far, the whole thing with Rios and Agnes was just as out of the blue; and seemed to be their idea of buttoning character arcs that just never actually happened. I'm less annoyed that Seven might also be interested in women, as I am them just brushing off her relationship with Chakotay. I know they only introduced it in the last episode of Voyager, but I honestly didn't mind it too much; and they implied by way of Admiral Janeway, that they had made an actual go of it before Seven's untimely death. So there's no reason things shouldn't have worked out from them in the new timeline the finale created. Admittedly that new timeline affording Seven and Chakotay more time together, under different circumstances, which may have lead to them eventually growing apart, but they could have at least connected the dots a little. But that whole scene at the end of episode 10 was stupid. Why the fuck were they all wearing some sort of uniform all of a sudden, that clearly wasn't a Starfleet uniform? If they're not Starfleet, why do they need uniforms? And now, just like that, they're going to bumble around space for a bit, for no particular reason? None of them had their own personal interests they want to get back to? I mean, they made it abundantly clear that Rafi's life was shit, but none of them have anything better to do?
|
|
|
Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 27, 2020 16:19:05 GMT
Ah! Just re-watched that scene. I must have been looking at my phone at that moment the first time.
What a bizarre, out-of-left-field scene that was. It's almost like the producers realised "oh shit, if we finish the season without any gay content we'll be crucified in social media. Quickly, which of our characters can we turn gay?"
I wouldn't go that far, the whole thing with Rios and Agnes was just as out of the blue; and seemed to be their idea of buttoning character arcs that just never actually happened. I'm less annoyed that Seven might also be interested in women, as I am them just brushing off her relationship with Chakotay. I know they only introduced it in the last episode of Voyager, but I honestly didn't mind it too much; and they implied by way of Admiral Janeway, that they had made an actual go of it before Seven's untimely death. So there's no reason things shouldn't have worked out from them in the new timeline the finale created. Admittedly that new timeline affording Seven and Chakotay more time together, under different circumstances, which may have lead to them eventually growing apart, but they could have at least connected the dots a little. But that whole scene at the end of episode 10 was stupid. Why the fuck were they all wearing some sort of uniform all of a sudden, that clearly wasn't a Starfleet uniform? If they're not Starfleet, why do they need uniforms? And now, just like that, they're going to bumble around space for a bit, for no particular reason? None of them had their own personal interests they want to get back to? I mean, they made it abundantly clear that Rafi's life was shit, but none of them have anything better to do? Seven and Chakotay? I don't remember that. Rios and Agnes in the last episode wasn't out of the blue; on an earlier episode there was a scene where she is by herself, he comes in, they talk, they say something about how it would be a very bad idea for anything to happen between them, and then they kiss passionately anyway. I don't remember now if it is implied that they actually have sex afterwards, or if they are interrupted by something or someone.
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 16:48:54 GMT
Yeah, are Raffi and Seven lesbian lovers now? Who knows? I'm less concerned about Seven's or Rafi's sexuality being more fluid than had previously been let into, than the fact that this, along with Rios and Agnes, came out of the clear blue sky, without any apparent ground work leading up to it. I mean, had Seven and Rafi spent even give minutes of screen time together this season? Had Rios and Agnes? It took me a minute to remember that it was Narissa, not Rafi, who commented on Seven being attractive, right before their fight. So if there was anything to suggest this was coming, it was blink and miss it; same, again, for Agnes and Rios. If anything, I was kind of starting to expect them to be developing something between Rios and Rafi; particularly after the scene where they fixed the ship. As for the fight between Seven and Narissa, I was a little disappointed in how easily Narissa disarmed Seven and had the upper hand for as long as she did; even if Seven ultimately won. I feel like Seven should have had quicker reflexes than that. The first thing I thought during that fight scene was, "Seven is unnecessarily too close to Narissa." This is a cliche setup for what happened next --- Narissa took Seven's weapon away from her. And Seven is supposed to be an experienced and skilled fighter. Not acting like this.
|
|
|
Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 16:58:15 GMT
I wouldn't go that far, the whole thing with Rios and Agnes was just as out of the blue; and seemed to be their idea of buttoning character arcs that just never actually happened. I'm less annoyed that Seven might also be interested in women, as I am them just brushing off her relationship with Chakotay. I know they only introduced it in the last episode of Voyager, but I honestly didn't mind it too much; and they implied by way of Admiral Janeway, that they had made an actual go of it before Seven's untimely death. So there's no reason things shouldn't have worked out from them in the new timeline the finale created. Admittedly that new timeline affording Seven and Chakotay more time together, under different circumstances, which may have lead to them eventually growing apart, but they could have at least connected the dots a little. But that whole scene at the end of episode 10 was stupid. Why the fuck were they all wearing some sort of uniform all of a sudden, that clearly wasn't a Starfleet uniform? If they're not Starfleet, why do they need uniforms? And now, just like that, they're going to bumble around space for a bit, for no particular reason? None of them had their own personal interests they want to get back to? I mean, they made it abundantly clear that Rafi's life was shit, but none of them have anything better to do? Seven and Chakotay? I don't remember that. Rios and Agnes in the last episode wasn't out of the blue; on an earlier episode there was a scene where she is by herself, he comes in, they talk, they say something about how it would be a very bad idea for anything to happen between them, and then they kiss passionately anyway. I don't remember now if it is implied that they actually have sex afterwards, or if they are interrupted by something or someone. Yeah, it encompassed like, half the last episode of Voyager. I honestly don't remember the scene with Agnes and Rios. I believe you that it happened, but just the same, that's still not much of a foundation for that end scene, that otherwise ignores her murdering someone or them having hardly any interaction since whatever that was.
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 17:13:42 GMT
I wouldn't go that far, the whole thing with Rios and Agnes was just as out of the blue; and seemed to be their idea of buttoning character arcs that just never actually happened. I'm less annoyed that Seven might also be interested in women, as I am them just brushing off her relationship with Chakotay. I know they only introduced it in the last episode of Voyager, but I honestly didn't mind it too much; and they implied by way of Admiral Janeway, that they had made an actual go of it before Seven's untimely death. So there's no reason things shouldn't have worked out from them in the new timeline the finale created. Admittedly that new timeline affording Seven and Chakotay more time together, under different circumstances, which may have lead to them eventually growing apart, but they could have at least connected the dots a little. But that whole scene at the end of episode 10 was stupid. Why the fuck were they all wearing some sort of uniform all of a sudden, that clearly wasn't a Starfleet uniform? If they're not Starfleet, why do they need uniforms? And now, just like that, they're going to bumble around space for a bit, for no particular reason? None of them had their own personal interests they want to get back to? I mean, they made it abundantly clear that Rafi's life was shit, but none of them have anything better to do? Seven and Chakotay? I don't remember that. Rios and Agnes in the last episode wasn't out of the blue; on an earlier episode there was a scene where she is by herself, he comes in, they talk, they say something about how it would be a very bad idea for anything to happen between them, and then they kiss passionately anyway. I don't remember now if it is implied that they actually have sex afterwards, or if they are interrupted by something or someone. - Seven and Chakotay spent a lot of time together. But no hint at sex and romance. - Agnes and Rios had an affair in an earlier episode. - Seven and Rafi never did anything together until the final episode when we were supposed to believe Picard was dying. They comforted each other in grief. But no hint at sex or romance. . . . . Until that infamous final scene.
|
|
|
Post by ck100 on Mar 27, 2020 17:34:10 GMT
For Brent Spiner, his participation in Picard is equivalent to Harrison Ford's role in The Force Awakens although Data was previously killed off in Nemesis.
|
|
|
Post by ck100 on Mar 27, 2020 17:43:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 17:43:46 GMT
Now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing that magic duhickey before. I guess consistent with stargazer's point, maybe I was already used to unexplained stuff popping up. Consistent with your's, I wasn't really paying that close attention either. Once again, Star Trek is no longer about discovering new worlds, phenomena or "going where no man has gone before". It's really just about personality conflicts, morals, ethics, characters causing trouble for no other reason than plot lines and arbitrary conflict. Kinda like "The Real Housewives of Outer Space" and "Jerry Springer". I blame this on women. Men like discovering new worlds, phenomena, species, and "going where no man has gone before". Women like personality conflicts, people causing trouble for no reason, The Real Housewives and Jerry Springer. CBS is trying to attract female viewers.
"Star Trek is no longer about discovering new worlds, phenomena or "going where no man has gone before"." ------------------------------------------------ That's not entirely true!
A Majority of it is indeed true but not all of it.
That Synthetics Planet was a Strange New World where no man (except Brent Spiner's character) had gone before and it had things that were never seen before in "STAR TREK" like those Giant Space Flower Things and also those Giant Tentacle things coming out of that Space Vortex (and Yes, I know that we have indeed seen Space Vortexes themselves before on "STAR TREK" but not like that one).
I assume you are being fasicious. (That was not what I was talking about. They didn't discover that Syth planet because they were exploring. They went there to solve a petty disagreement between the Synths and Romulans.) This is my complaint about all Star Treks since TNG. It's about personality conflict, corruption, questionable character, etc. Not exploring, seeing and learning new things, and "going where no one has gone before".
|
|
|
Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 18:16:57 GMT
Seven and Chakotay? I don't remember that. Rios and Agnes in the last episode wasn't out of the blue; on an earlier episode there was a scene where she is by herself, he comes in, they talk, they say something about how it would be a very bad idea for anything to happen between them, and then they kiss passionately anyway. I don't remember now if it is implied that they actually have sex afterwards, or if they are interrupted by something or someone. - Seven and Chakotay spent a lot of time together. But no hint at sex and romance. This isn't entirely accurate. One episode in season 7 had an entire plot where Seven displayed interest in Chakotay; albeit expressing that in the most Seven way possible, by running a simulation of how that could play out, rather than actually ask Chakotay out himself. Then in the series finale, we find out that at some point between that earlier episode and the finale, Seven and Chakotay had started seeing each other, though they were initially keeping things quiet and taking it slow. However during the glimpse of the future, we learn that they eventually got married; with Janeway saying that when Seven was injured, she made it back to Voyager, only to die in the arms of her husband, Chakotay. Janeway remarks how Chakotay was never quite the same after that. When she visited Chakotay's grave, she comments about hard it was for him to live the rest of his life without "her" and that this is one of the things Janeway is hoping to make right by going back and getting Voyager home sooner. So while they might not have reached the point in the development of their relationship on screen, they did give us the beginning and the end of it; with all the implications of what ostensibly came in between. But of course, this is now the darkest timeline, so naturally they have to shit on anyone living happily ever after...
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 18:30:35 GMT
- Seven and Chakotay spent a lot of time together. But no hint at sex and romance. This isn't entirely accurate. One episode in season 7 had an entire plot where Seven displayed interest in Chakotay; albeit expressing that in the most Seven way possible, by running a simulation of how that could play out, rather than actually ask Chakotay out himself. Then in the series finale, we find out that at some point between that earlier episode and the finale, Seven and Chakotay had started seeing each other, though they were initially keeping things quiet and taking it slow. However during the glimpse of the future, we learn that they eventually got married; with Janeway saying that when Seven was injured, she made it back to Voyager, only to die in the arms of her husband, Chakotay. Janeway remarks how Chakotay was never quite the same after that. When she visited Chakotay's grave, she comments about hard it was for him to live the rest of his life without "her" and that this is one of the things Janeway is hoping to make right by going back and getting Voyager home sooner. So while they might not have reached the point in the development of their relationship on screen, they did give us the beginning and the end of it; with all the implications of what ostensibly came in between. But of course, this is now the darkest timeline, so naturally they have to shit on anyone living happily ever after... Season 7 ?? I was only talking about Picard. Not any other Star Trek show/series.
|
|