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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 2:33:05 GMT
Jesus Christ this episode was terrible, but you know, exactly the finale I was expecting following such a piece of shit of a season/series.
For someone who thought they had been human their whole life, and had been for the last three years, Soji sure flip the switch and is all about being a synth; with none of the prospective she should have on being human/organic (a distinction which is itself a contradiction, considering that she is apparently an "organic-synth"...)
Seriously, why the fuck would she all of...whatever... people suddenly be on the "down with organics" bandwagon?
How the hell do the Romulans, who have been displaced for 15 years, lost hundreds of millions of their citizens, have that many ships; much less that many ships that can be sent on that one mission at a moment's notice? Which is it, did the supernova decimate the Romulan empire, erasing the neutral zone and rendering the Romulans an immigrant people? Or Has nothing effectively changed for them in the last 15 years?
And how the fuck did Riker manage to not only arrange to reactivate his service, but put in command in picked up in time to arrive at the planet when they did? Picard only left him a day or two ago; and then promptly used a Borg transwarp conduit to get to the planet. Picard even marveled at the distance they managed to traverse in such a short amount of time.
Why would the Romulans just up and leave because the synths decided to cut short the call? When have the Romulans ever been that reasonable? For that matter, that wasn't even the fucking reason they came to the planet. They supposedly have an irrational level of fear of all synthetic beings, fueled by the "Admonition" that drives almost everyone insane; they're not just going to turn around and go home. Hell, they don't even know that Soji smashed the controls, so for all Oh knows, the second they leave the synths are going to dial-up Doctor Octopus again.
And then, just like that, all of the Starfleet ships leave too; because what possible reason could there be to leave even one or two in orbit to render assistance of any kind? And it's not like the writers intended to include a scene in few minutes that Riker might want to be around for....🙄
I mean, Jesus tap-dancing Christ, you don't think Riker would beat himself up to have had the opportunity to be there when Picard "died" and say a proper good-bye, all because he couldn't hang around for a couple more minutes??
And I put died in quotations, because even though I've paused the episode to write all this out, with 12 minutes remaining; I have little confidence in Picard actually still being dead by the time I get to the end of the episode. Because, a) there's still 12 fucking minutes left to the episode and I've paused it in the middle of a scene with him talking to Data. And B) They announce season 2 of this fucking series before the first episode even aired.
I called it last week that they are probably going to transfer his consciousness into that android golem; which, for obvious reason, despite being an artificial body will inexplicably look like he's the same age as the biological Picard is now.
That, or they'll use the magic dohickey Rafi and Rios used to fix the ship to correct the ship to fix whatever was wrong with Picard and bring him back to life; because it's an ambiguously defined device that can repair whatever you want if you just have a little imagination. And don't forget, even though this doesn't take place in the Kelvin timeline, it is still produced by the same production company who gave us Kahn's magic blood that can reverse death...
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 2:46:38 GMT
One thing I'll give them credit for, is that Data at least looks more like Data in this episode. They either had to do some trial and error with the make-up since the first episode; or, I'm thinking, the initial discrepency had more to do with the license agreement between CBS and Viacom and Data had to look notable different from TNG to pass muster; and perhaps this last went into production close enough to when the re-merger deal was being finalized that they were able to do Data properly (or maybe hedged their bets that by the time the episode aired, the deal would be done and it wouldn't matter).
I'm thinking though that the scene of Data's death may have had more to do with CGI de-aging, slimming the face; because he looked even more like himself than the scene where he was talking to Picard. The fact that Data didn't talk in the other scene would probably make those effects relatively simpler, especially since they subsequently went in to age him as he died.
The scene itself is rather stupid though, seeing as how they could have just built him a new body that would age and die, just like they inexplicably gave Picard, but what the hell, he apparently wanted to die in a cabin...
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 2:55:53 GMT
Oh, for the love of God, they're really squeezing all the shit into every minute of this episode, aren't they? Rios and Agnes? Rafi and Seven? What the fuck?
And what they fuck are they all wearing now?
Ah, and just like that, after 15 years and all sort of divided contention, the ban on synthetics has been lifted; which is perfect timing now that Picard is one....🙄
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Post by ck100 on Mar 27, 2020 4:29:20 GMT
The whole "new body" thing for Picard is just going to fall by the wayside when the second season rolls around. Feels more like a plot device than a character thing for Picard.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 4:56:14 GMT
The whole "new body" thing for Picard is just going to fall by the wayside when the second season rolls around. Feels more like a plot device than a character thing for Picard. I mean, they went out of their way of saying as much with the whole, "no 'super-powers', etc., etc.; and you'll live to a more or less natural age..." It's just dumb and predictable. From the moment they mentioned him dying it was obvious that by the end of the season they'd have found a miraculous cure; and soon as they showed us the blank synth-body New-Soong was working on and talking about consciousness transfer that that was how they were going to do it. It really wasn't necessary. They didn't need to give him a terminal illness to start with, especially they introduce it in the first or second episode (approximately) and then it didn't come into play again until episode 9. It was like the writers went, "oh, yeah, we should bring that up again before the end of the episode". All to put him an android body that looks and functions like his old one - why the fuck would anyone want a synthetic body that looks and functions like a 94 year old? Even if they removed things like bad knees or arthritis, if you're going to stave off death and hop into a new replica of your body, why wouldn't you want it to be your body from when you were in your prime? The obvious answer is because the character is still being played by an actor who is about to turn 80. But if it doesn't make logical sense from a story standpoint, then don't do it. Never mind some of the greater implications, like the fact that they've now developed the technology in Star Trek to essentially cured death. Any character who dies without getting their brain scanned and a new body built for them will have been unnecessarily and unfairly cheated. Sucks to be Thad Riker, I guess... And what about Picard? He didn't even get a say in the matter. Sure, it seems to be implied that he didn't mind, and on average, who really ever wants to died? But the man is supposed to be 94 is just now succumbing to a naturally occurring, non-specific brain ailment. He wasn't shot or poisoned, no one did this to "prematurely" cause his death; they talk about how his body will give out "naturally", but if his brain thing at 94 doesn't count, what does? Where do they draw the line between, "this is the appropriate time to die" and "naw, take a Mulligan"? Without advanced medical intervention, it's unlikely a human at 94 would have more than a decade ahead of them, if that; and if he's going to get that late 24th century level preventative care, what's the point in quibbling over being mortal or immortal? At that point you can just say, I'm going to live however long I want to live; or until something blows me up, whichever comes first. But there again, if you not only have that option, but also the choice to still look as you did at 94 or at 30-50, who wants to be 94? That's like getting a new computer, but you're going to keep running Windows XP... And while they're at it, like I said in an earlier post, why the hell wouldn't they have given Data his own, new body; instead of sticking him a simulation of purgatory? If they can make Picard age, hey could give Data a body to age. Honestly, that's kind of what I expected when Brent popped up in episode 9; and would have made a hell of a lot more sense than inventing another Soong, none of whom seem to inherit any DNA from any of their mothers...
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Post by ck100 on Mar 27, 2020 5:18:12 GMT
They purposely made Brent Spiner look like he did in Nemesis because that is how Data last looked and it wouldn't look convincing to make Brent look exactly as he did on the TNG TV show decades ago even with fancy CGI. You can only go so far in making a 71 year old look young with CGI.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 6:01:50 GMT
They purposely made Brent Spiner look like he did in Nemesis because that is how Data last looked and it wouldn't look convincing to make Brent look exactly as he did on the TNG TV show decades ago even with fancy CGI. You can only go so far in making a 71 year old look young with CGI. I have no idea what you're trying to get at. My observation, which a lot of others have made, is that Data scarcely looked like Data in the first episode. Obviously at least some of it is going to be the age of the actor, but some of it was off in ways that seemed to be odd artistic choices; like his hairline, eyes and his lips (or lack their of). At least one possible explanation for these types of decisions would relate to the license agreement between CBS and Viacom; since CBS held the rights to create Star Trek television shows and Viacom has been the one producing the likes of Discovery and Picard, by way of JJ Abrams' Bad Robot production company. As part of that agreement and so that Viacom could license its own merchandise, since CBS owns the rights to any merchandise related from TOS through Enterprise, certain details had to differ by at least a certain percentage from the original source material. Hence some of the variations of the TOS uniforms in Discovery and why most of the Starfleet uniforms depicted in Picard look nothing like anything that's been previously shown, including glimpses of the future around roughly when this series should be set. By that token, it's conceivable that they took artistic license with how Data looks in the Picard series to capitalize on that character; making him look different enough to satisfy their license agreement. Of course not long after ST Picard finished production on their first season, Viacom and CBS finalized their agreement to re-merge and become one company again; meaning there no longer needed to be a license agreement or any differences for merchandising purposes. But again, the official, formal agreement came after Picard's production had reportedly wrapped. However, it's possible that by the time episode 10 came around, either while they were shooting it or as they were working on post production, the show runners may have already been aware of the agreement being in the works or it might have even been finalized while it was being edited; or they just said, "screw it, by the time this airs the agreement will probably be in place" and took their chances. My point is that while Data looked different from how he should look in the first episode of ST Picard, he actually looked more like he should in the last episode of STP; like they finally got the make-up right, either intentionally or by trial and error. But on top of that, during his death scene he looked even more like he did 20+ years ago, more so than he did in the previous scene talking to Picard, which makes me think they used some CGI magic to de-age Brent, like they probably did in earlier episodes where they flashed back to when Picard was still in service during the rescue effort. My mention of TNG was a catch all for the Next Gen era, which includes Nemesis.
And to my even greater point, they could have just built a new bio-synth body for Data that just looked like Brent Spiner does now and been done with it. They clearly had that ability and there's no reason to do that, instead of keeping Data locked away, alone in some sort of simulation. He said he wanted to live, even if albeit a finite life; wouldn't getting to do that out int he real world, with other people, and finally being granted his wish to be as close to being human as possible, be better than removing a thumb drive?
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Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 6:30:15 GMT
Jesus Christ this episode was terrible, but you know, exactly the finale I was expecting following such a piece of shit of a season/series.  For someone who thought they had been human their whole life, and had been for the last three years, Soji sure flip the switch and is all about being a synth; with none of the prospective she should have on being human/organic (a distinction which is itself a contradiction, considering that she is apparently an "organic-synth"...) Seriously, why the fuck would she all of...whatever... people suddenly be on the "down with organics" bandwagon? How the hell do the Romulans, who have been displaced for 15 years, lost hundreds of millions of their citizens, have that many ships; much less that many ships that can be sent on that one mission at a moment's notice? Which is it, did the supernova decimate the Romulan empire, erasing the neutral zone and rendering the Romulans an immigrant people? Or Has nothing effectively changed for them in the last 15 years? And how the fuck did Riker manage to not only arrange to reactivate his service, but put in command in picked up in time to arrive at the planet when they did? Picard only left him a day or two ago; and then promptly used a Borg transwarp conduit to get to the planet. Picard even marveled at the distance they managed to traverse in such a short amount of time. Why would the Romulans just up and leave because the synths decided to cut short the call? When have the Romulans ever been that reasonable? For that matter, that wasn't even the fucking reason they came to the planet. They supposedly have an irrational level of fear of all synthetic beings, fueled by the "Admonition" that drives almost everyone insane; they're not just going to turn around and go home. Hell, they don't even know that Soji smashed the controls, so for all Oh knows, the second they leave the synths are going to dial-up Doctor Octopus again. And then, just like that, all of the Starfleet ships leave too; because what possible reason could there be to leave even one or two in orbit to render assistance of any kind? And it's not like the writers intended to include a scene in few minutes that Riker might want to be around for....🙄 I mean, Jesus tap-dancing Christ, you don't think Riker would beat himself up to have had the opportunity to be there when Picard "died" and say a proper good-bye, all because he couldn't hang around for a couple more minutes?? And I put died in quotations, because even though I've paused the episode to write all this out, with 12 minutes remaining; I have little confidence in Picard actually still being dead by the time I get to the end of the episode. Because, a) there's still 12 fucking minutes left to the episode and I've paused it in the middle of a scene with him talking to Data. And B) They announce season 2 of this fucking series before the first episode even aired. I called it last week that they are probably going to transfer his consciousness into that android golem; which, for obvious reason, despite being an artificial body will inexplicably look like he's the same age as the biological Picard is now. That, or they'll use the magic dohickey Rafi and Rios used to fix the ship to correct the ship to fix whatever was wrong with Picard and bring him back to life; because it's an ambiguously defined device that can repair whatever you want if you just have a little imagination. And don't forget, even though this doesn't take place in the Kelvin timeline, it is still produced by the same production company who gave us Kahn's magic blood that can reverse death... Nobody thought Picard was going to die. They don't name a series after a title character, only to have that title character die in the first season. I never watched any of the movies. Just the show TNG. I don't get any of this Romulan stuff. When TNG ended, the Romulans were not in trouble. |
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Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 6:31:53 GMT
Oh, for the love of God, they're really squeezing all the shit into every minute of this episode, aren't they? Rios and Agnes? Rafi and Seven? What the fuck? And what they fuck are they all wearing now? Ah, and just like that, after 15 years and all sort of divided contention, the ban on synthetics has been lifted; which is perfect timing now that Picard is one....🙄 Yeah, are Raffi and Seven lesbian lovers now? |
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Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 6:33:59 GMT
The whole "new body" thing for Picard is just going to fall by the wayside when the second season rolls around. Feels more like a plot device than a character thing for Picard. I mean, they went out of their way of saying as much with the whole, "no 'super-powers', etc., etc.; and you'll live to a more or less natural age..." It's just dumb and predictable. From the moment they mentioned him dying it was obvious that by the end of the season they'd have found a miraculous cure; and soon as they showed us the blank synth-body New-Soong was working on and talking about consciousness transfer that that was how they were going to do it. It really wasn't necessary. They didn't need to give him a terminal illness to start with, especially they introduce it in the first or second episode (approximately) and then it didn't come into play again until episode 9. It was like the writers went, "oh, yeah, we should bring that up again before the end of the episode". All to put him an android body that looks and functions like his old one - why the fuck would anyone want a synthetic body that looks and functions like a 94 year old? Even if they removed things like bad knees or arthritis, if you're going to stave off death and hop into a new replica of your body, why wouldn't you want it to be your body from when you were in your prime? The obvious answer is because the character is still being played by an actor who is about to turn 80. But if it doesn't make logical sense from a story standpoint, then don't do it. Never mind some of the greater implications, like the fact that they've now developed the technology in Star Trek to essentially cured death. Any character who dies without getting their brain scanned and a new body built for them will have been unnecessarily and unfairly cheated. Sucks to be Thad Riker, I guess... And what about Picard? He didn't even get a say in the matter. Sure, it seems to be implied that he didn't mind, and on average, who really ever wants to died? But the man is supposed to be 94 is just now succumbing to a naturally occurring, non-specific brain ailment. He wasn't shot or poisoned, no one did this to "prematurely" cause his death; they talk about how his body will give out "naturally", but if his brain thing at 94 doesn't count, what does? Where do they draw the line between, "this is the appropriate time to die" and "naw, take a Mulligan"? Without advanced medical intervention, it's unlikely a human at 94 would have more than a decade ahead of them, if that; and if he's going to get that late 24th century level preventative care, what's the point in quibbling over being mortal or immortal? At that point you can just say, I'm going to live however long I want to live; or until something blows me up, whichever comes first. But there again, if you not only have that option, but also the choice to still look as you did at 94 or at 30-50, who wants to be 94? That's like getting a new computer, but you're going to keep running Windows XP... And while they're at it, like I said in an earlier post, why the hell wouldn't they have given Data his own, new body; instead of sticking him a simulation of purgatory? If they can make Picard age, hey could give Data a body to age. Honestly, that's kind of what I expected when Brent popped up in episode 9; and would have made a hell of a lot more sense than inventing another Soong, none of whom seem to inherit any DNA from any of their mothers... Good points. Why not give Picard a better body than a 94 year old? Why not give Data a new body? Good points stargazer. |
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Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 6:35:11 GMT
They purposely made Brent Spiner look like he did in Nemesis because that is how Data last looked and it wouldn't look convincing to make Brent look exactly as he did on the TNG TV show decades ago even with fancy CGI. You can only go so far in making a 71 year old look young with CGI. I never watched any of the movies. Just the show TNG. I don't like Data's appearance. |
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Post by wolf359 on Mar 27, 2020 7:07:53 GMT
Oh, for the love of God, they're really squeezing all the shit into every minute of this episode, aren't they? Rios and Agnes? Rafi and Seven? What the fuck? And what they fuck are they all wearing now? Ah, and just like that, after 15 years and all sort of divided contention, the ban on synthetics has been lifted; which is perfect timing now that Picard is one....🙄 Yeah, are Raffi and Seven lesbian lovers now?
If so then I myself am fine with it.
What I myself would really like to know is if Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine) is actually returning for Season 2 of this Show ?
I was always under the impression that she would just be in this Season and that is it.
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Post by wolf359 on Mar 27, 2020 7:16:31 GMT
I absolutely love that "STAR TREK: PICARD" turned Seven of Nine into almost a Butt Kicking Badass and Jeri Ryan is Awesome as her!
To be fair though, Jeri Ryan really has always been (to me at least) Awesome as "Seven".
Heck, I myself think that she should get her own "STAR TREK" Spin-Off Show.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 7:18:58 GMT
I absolutely love that "STAR TREK: PICARD" turned Seven of Nine into almost a Butt Kicking Badass and Jeri Ryan is Awesome as her!
To be fair though, Jeri Ryan really has always been (to me at least) Awesome as "Seven".
Heck, I myself think that she should get her own "STAR TREK" Spin-Off Show.
I'm beginning to get the impression you like Jeri Ryan. |
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Post by wolf359 on Mar 27, 2020 7:19:57 GMT
I absolutely love that "STAR TREK: PICARD" turned Seven of Nine into almost a Butt Kicking Badass and Jeri Ryan is Awesome as her!
To be fair though, Jeri Ryan really has always been (to me at least) Awesome as "Seven".
Heck, I myself think that she should get her own "STAR TREK" Spin-Off Show.
I'm beginning to get the impression you like Jerri Ryan.
She was My Favorite Character from "STAR TREK: VOYAGER".
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Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 7:21:15 GMT
I'm beginning to get the impression you like Jerri Ryan. She was My Favorite Character from "STAR TREK: VOYAGER".
I liked her too in that. But she was younger and more Borg like. Now she's older and too human. |
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Post by wolf359 on Mar 27, 2020 7:30:53 GMT
She was My Favorite Character from "STAR TREK: VOYAGER".
I liked her too in that. But she was younger and more Borg like. Now she's older and too human.
Well it's been 20 years since we last saw her in the Last Episode of "VOYAGER", A lot can happen to a person in 20 years.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 27, 2020 7:39:05 GMT
I liked her too in that. But she was younger and more Borg like. Now she's older and too human. Well it's been 20 years since we last saw her in the Last Episode of "VOYAGER", A lot can happen to a person in 20 years.
You could say that again. |
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 27, 2020 13:57:39 GMT
Oh, for the love of God, they're really squeezing all the shit into every minute of this episode, aren't they? Rios and Agnes? Rafi and Seven? What the fuck? And what they fuck are they all wearing now? Ah, and just like that, after 15 years and all sort of divided contention, the ban on synthetics has been lifted; which is perfect timing now that Picard is one....🙄 Yeah, are Raffi and Seven lesbian lovers now? Who knows? I'm less concerned about Seven's or Rafi's sexuality being more fluid than had previously been let into, than the fact that this, along with Rios and Agnes, came out of the clear blue sky, without any apparent ground work leading up to it. I mean, had Seven and Rafi spent even give minutes of screen time together this season? Had Rios and Agnes? It took me a minute to remember that it was Narissa, not Rafi, who commented on Seven being attractive, right before their fight. So if there was anything to suggest this was coming, it was blink and miss it; same, again, for Agnes and Rios. If anything, I was kind of starting to expect them to be developing something between Rios and Rafi; particularly after the scene where they fixed the ship. As for the fight between Seven and Narissa, I was a little disappointed in how easily Narissa disarmed Seven and had the upper hand for as long as she did; even if Seven ultimately won. I feel like Seven should have had quicker reflexes than that. |
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 27, 2020 14:00:16 GMT
Oh, for the love of God, they're really squeezing all the shit into every minute of this episode, aren't they? Rios and Agnes? Rafi and Seven? What the fuck? And what they fuck are they all wearing now? Ah, and just like that, after 15 years and all sort of divided contention, the ban on synthetics has been lifted; which is perfect timing now that Picard is one....🙄 Yeah, are Raffi and Seven lesbian lovers now? What? Did I doze off during the finale and missed something?
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