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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 20:56:16 GMT
He was experiencing God-forsakenness.
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Post by thefleetsin on Apr 26, 2017 21:00:16 GMT
the authors were laying a foundation for centuries of self-pity and worthlessness personified.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 26, 2017 21:06:48 GMT
He was quoting the opening verse of Psalm 22.
The whole chapter is kind of a analogous to what Jesus experienced and what happens when he perseveres.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Apr 26, 2017 21:09:18 GMT
Ask again later
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 26, 2017 22:54:24 GMT
That's kind of a depressing thing for Jesus to say. Why did he say this? Did he expect God to save him? It's said that Jesus never sinned, but I'm surprised this doesn't count. It seems like a sin to accuse God of abandonment. God did abandon him...For three days. It was perhaps the first time in jesus' life that he was alone and away from his father. It is not a sin to question God anyway, but this was probably not what Jesus was doing. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 26, 2017 23:02:49 GMT
He's part of God isn't He?
Shouldn't he have said 'Why oh Why did I forsake myself?'
Or maybe 'When I put part of myself into this human in order to save the world from the sin I allowed to exist I thought this crucifixion thing would be easier."
Jesus finding out that this death thing is harder than it looks is kind of like when Trump found out that health care was a bit harder than it seemed.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 26, 2017 23:06:47 GMT
Jesus always knew his death was going to be tough.
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 27, 2017 1:01:33 GMT
That's kind of a depressing thing for Jesus to say. Why did he say this? Did he expect God to save him? It's said that Jesus never sinned, but I'm surprised this doesn't count. It seems like a sin to accuse God of abandonment. But God DID abandon him. That was the whole point! The abandonment was a representation of God abandoning "sin", which Jesus died for. It was to atone for all the sins of mankind that Jesus died for, and God cannot look upon sin (according to the bible). But it wasn't a permanent abandonment (as Jesus was raised to life by his father 3 days later, and ascended to heaven 40 days after that). And no, Jesus did no realistically expect God to save him, but he did pray for that very thing if it could be done in accordance with his will. According to the story, he prayed three times that he wouldn't face the ordained suffering. The answer was obviously no! Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 2:57:32 GMT
Shouldn't he have said 'Why oh Why did I forsake myself?' That's a misunderstanding of Trinitarian theology. |
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 27, 2017 4:13:02 GMT
Shouldn't he have said 'Why oh Why did I forsake myself?' That's a misunderstanding of Trinitarian theology. All Trinitarian theology is "misunderstood" because the concept is inherently incomprehensible. No one understands it insomuch as their capacity to articulate it logically. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 6:52:58 GMT
Shouldn't he have said 'Why oh Why did I forsake myself?' Why would He do that when He as the Son was was talkng to the Father, a distinct person? The Trinity= God is one BEING, Who exists in three PERSONS. |
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Post by captainbryce on Apr 27, 2017 11:31:07 GMT
Shouldn't he have said 'Why oh Why did I forsake myself?' Why would He do that when He as the Son was was talkng to the Father, a distinct person? The Trinity= God is one BEING, Who exists in three PERSONS. I think most here are aware of how trinity is usually described by its proponents. But it doesn't mean that explanation has ever made sense. The idea that many persons could make up one being is illogical. Moreover, the idea that they could be co-equal is even more ridiculous given the limitations the Bible itself sets on Jesus's powers. He has so many attributes that disqualify him from being God under the Bible's own rules that he could not possibly be a member of this so-called trinity, even if a trinity did make sense. |
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Post by clusium on Apr 27, 2017 12:05:57 GMT
Why would He do that when He as the Son was was talkng to the Father, a distinct person? The Trinity= God is one BEING, Who exists in three PERSONS. I think most here are aware of how trinity is usually described by its proponents. But it doesn't mean that explanation has ever made sense. The idea that many persons could make up one being is illogical. Moreover, the idea that they could be co-equal is even more ridiculous given the limitations the Bible itself sets on Jesus's powers. He has so many attributes that disqualify him from being God under the Bible's own rules that he could not possibly be a member of this so-called trinity, even if a trinity did make sense. The problem here is, you are equating God with His Creation. What is illogical & even impossible for humans is neither illogical nor impossible with God. God is Above & Beyond all human comprehension, & the doctrine of the Trinity shows this. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 12:26:17 GMT
That's a misunderstanding of Trinitarian theology. All Trinitarian theology is "misunderstood" because the concept is inherently incomprehensible. No one understands it insomuch as their capacity to articulate it logically. I understand it just fine (as do many others). There is one divine essence that has three centers of consciousness (which we call "persons"). If God is love (and we're told that he IS love, and not just loving), then God has to exist as a "community" of "persons" who can love one another, for that's what love is. It's relational. One essence with three centers of consciousness. The transcendent (invisible and above all) source of everything is called the Father. The eternal incarnate image of the Father is the Son. The indwelling spirit of love between and within them is the Holy Spirit. These three centers of consciousness can communicate with one another, but they all share one essence. If God is an infinite being beyond what humans can comprehend, then we'd expect him to exist as something we can't completely wrap our head around. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 12:30:20 GMT
Why would He do that when He as the Son was was talkng to the Father, a distinct person? The Trinity= God is one BEING, Who exists in three PERSONS. I think most here are aware of how trinity is usually described by its proponents. But it doesn't mean that explanation has ever made sense. The idea that many persons could make up one being is illogical. Moreover, the idea that they could be co-equal is even more ridiculous given the limitations the Bible itself sets on Jesus's powers. He has so many attributes that disqualify him from being God under the Bible's own rules that he could not possibly be a member of this so-called trinity, even if a trinity did make sense. Philippians 2: 5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. 7 Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, 8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death— even to death on a cross. 9 For this reason God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow— of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth— 11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. The "objection" you brought up is far from new. And it's thoroughly addressed in the NT. |
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Post by cupcakes on Apr 27, 2017 13:11:12 GMT
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 27, 2017 13:23:30 GMT
Shouldn't he have said 'Why oh Why did I forsake myself?' Why would He do that when He as the Son was was talkng to the Father, a distinct person? The Trinity= God is one BEING, Who exists in three PERSONS. Even with this, why would one being not know the reason for its own actions? |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 27, 2017 13:35:25 GMT
Shouldn't he have said 'Why oh Why did I forsake myself?' Why would He do that when He as the Son was was talkng to the Father, a distinct person? The Trinity= God is one BEING, Who exists in three PERSONS. It's cute when you post like the Bible is an infallible historical record. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 14:20:05 GMT
I think most here are aware of how trinity is usually described by its proponents. But it doesn't mean that explanation has ever made sense. The idea that many persons could make up one being is illogical. Moreover, the idea that they could be co-equal is even moreridiculous given the limitations the Bible itself sets on Jesus's powers. He has so many attributes that disqualify him from being God under the Bible's own rules that he could not possibly be a member of this so-called trinity, even if a trinity did make sense. Here's why the trinity concept is biblical. “Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.””Genesis 1:26 “The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.”Genesis 18:1 Now see John 8:56 “Then the LORD(Yahweh) rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD(Yahweh) out of the heavens.”Genesis 19:24 “In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple.”Isaiah 6:1 Here Isaiah says he saw the Lord(Yahweh). Now go to John 12:41 “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6 ““This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”Isaiah 44:6 Now go to revelation 22:13 ““This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,”Isaiah 44:24 Now go to Colossians 1:15-16 “By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.” Isaiah 45:23 Now go to Phililppians 2:10-11 “"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."” Micah 5:2 “And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, " Son, your sins are forgiven." But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"”Mark 2:5-7 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”John 1:1 Now go to John 1:14. “For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.”John 5:18 ““Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”” John 8:58 “I and the Father are one.””John 10:30 “In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;” Philippians 2:5-6 “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,”Colossians 2:9 “while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,” Titus 2:13 “But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”Hebrews 1:8 To be continued... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 14:26:10 GMT
Why would He do that when He as the Son was was talkng to the Father, a distinct person? The Trinity= God is one BEING, Who exists in three PERSONS. It's cute when you post like the Bible is an infallible historical record. It's cute when you get refuted and are left with nothing else but to resort to sarcasm. |
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