|
|
Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 27, 2017 18:25:28 GMT
What do they mean by spirit?
Obviously they mean YOU, the real you deep down inside, your soul. Not your physical body, YOU, your spirit.
So, everyone in church knows that when we say 'also with your spirit', that 'spirit' is synonymous with 'you'.
So my question is, why did some churches bother changing it from 'And also with you' when it's already implied by the doctrines of the faith that YOU ARE YOUR SPIRIT?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 19:00:45 GMT
That's a good question . I don't know why they changed the responses either.
|
|
|
|
Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 27, 2017 19:53:31 GMT
That's a good question . I don't know why they changed the responses either. I don't go to church too often, but when I do I say 'And also with you'. Seems like one of those changes people make because someone is being paid to make changes. |
|
|
|
Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 28, 2017 23:09:35 GMT
I guess nobody knows because there was no logical reason for them to change it.
|
|
|
|
Post by phludowin on Apr 29, 2017 8:43:11 GMT
OldSamVimesI assume you are talking about the part when, in a Catholic service, the priest says "The Lord be with you", and the congregation replies. I've never been to an English speaking service. The congregation replies to the priest. Maybe some churches see "Spirit" not as the whole you, but as the spiritual part of a person. In this case, the priest's. Maybe some churches are acknowledging that a priest is more than just spirit. Which is true; some altar boys are sadly aware of it. So acknowledging the physical part of the priest may be a corollary to the fact that the Church is no longer trying to sweep the sex scandals under the rug at all costs. As such, it would be a step in the right direction.
|
|
althea
Sophomore
@althea
Posts: 105
Likes: 10
 
|
Post by althea on Apr 29, 2017 23:10:31 GMT
What do they mean by spirit? Obviously they mean YOU, the real you deep down inside, your soul. Not your physical body, YOU, your spirit. So, everyone in church knows that when we say 'also with your spirit', that 'spirit' is synonymous with 'you'. So my question is, why did some churches bother changing it from 'And also with you' when it's already implied by the doctrines of the faith that YOU ARE YOUR SPIRIT? I encountered this recently, at a family funeral. ...was it part of the change they made when they updated the wording of Mass, or is it just something individual churches do, based on preference? |
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Apr 30, 2017 11:04:15 GMT
What do they mean by spirit? Obviously they mean YOU, the real you deep down inside, your soul. Not your physical body, YOU, your spirit. So, everyone in church knows that when we say 'also with your spirit', that 'spirit' is synonymous with 'you'. So my question is, why did some churches bother changing it from 'And also with you' when it's already implied by the doctrines of the faith that YOU ARE YOUR SPIRIT? I think it's a mistake to think in terms of ordinary dialogue. Have you ever seen the television show Sanford and Son where Redd Foxx as Fred Sanford starts talking while looking up apparently "to" God or "to" his departed Elizabeth? phludowin said, "The congregation replies to the priest," but that's not exactly it. It's more of the sort of "prayer" Fred Sanford does. The congregation isn't speaking "to" the priest but "with" him. It would be like Lamont Sanford saying, "and you were the best mom too," while Fred is praying. The ordinary grammatical "persons" do not exactly apply. "And with your spirit also" is not a reply "to" the priest but an embellishment of his prayer. "You" is just a word meaning "the people." To say "and with you too" changes that into a reply to the priest and into an ordinary dialogue (more than two people though) rather than a prayer. |
|
|
|
Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 30, 2017 17:57:28 GMT
What do they mean by spirit? Obviously they mean YOU, the real you deep down inside, your soul. Not your physical body, YOU, your spirit. So, everyone in church knows that when we say 'also with your spirit', that 'spirit' is synonymous with 'you'. So my question is, why did some churches bother changing it from 'And also with you' when it's already implied by the doctrines of the faith that YOU ARE YOUR SPIRIT? I think it's a mistake to think in terms of ordinary dialogue. Have you ever seen the television show Sanford and Son where Redd Foxx as Fred Sanford starts talking while looking up apparently "to" God or "to" his departed Elizabeth? phludowin said, "The congregation replies to the priest," but that's not exactly it. It's more of the sort of "prayer" Fred Sanford does. The congregation isn't speaking "to" the priest but "with" him. It would be like Lamont Sanford saying, "and you were the best mom too," while Fred is praying. The ordinary grammatical "persons" do not exactly apply. "And with your spirit also" is not a reply "to" the priest but an embellishment of his prayer. "You" is just a word meaning "the people." To say "and with you too" changes that into a reply to the priest and into an ordinary dialogue (more than two people though) rather than a prayer. I'm all about simplifying language, if one word will do I see no need to change it so it's two words. It's unclear to me why there needs to be a distinction made between 'you' and 'your spirit' when, according to everything the priest says, we are not are bodies but spirit.
IMO, according to the beliefs of the church I go to, 'You' is synonymous with 'You're spirit'. Seems like they wanted to add a word and a couple syllables to every response so the most dense in the congregation could understand that church is a spiritual thing?
|
|
|
|
Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 30, 2017 18:02:53 GMT
OldSamVimes I assume you are talking about the part when, in a Catholic service, the priest says "The Lord be with you", and the congregation replies. I've never been to an English speaking service. The congregation replies to the priest. Maybe some churches see "Spirit" not as the whole you, but as the spiritual part of a person. In this case, the priest's. Maybe some churches are acknowledging that a priest is more than just spirit. Which is true; some altar boys are sadly aware of it. So acknowledging the physical part of the priest may be a corollary to the fact that the Church is no longer trying to sweep the sex scandals under the rug at all costs. As such, it would be a step in the right direction. Seems to me a completely unnecessary distinction to make. I hope your right when it comes to the church taking some responsibility for the behaviors of some of it's priests, but changing a phrase in mass should probably come after they actually stop protecting priests accused of doing horrible things. It's like putting a band-aid on someone who's head is chopped off. |
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on May 1, 2017 6:54:16 GMT
I think it's a mistake to think in terms of ordinary dialogue. Have you ever seen the television show Sanford and Son where Redd Foxx as Fred Sanford starts talking while looking up apparently "to" God or "to" his departed Elizabeth? phludowin said, "The congregation replies to the priest," but that's not exactly it. It's more of the sort of "prayer" Fred Sanford does. The congregation isn't speaking "to" the priest but "with" him. It would be like Lamont Sanford saying, "and you were the best mom too," while Fred is praying. The ordinary grammatical "persons" do not exactly apply. "And with your spirit also" is not a reply "to" the priest but an embellishment of his prayer. "You" is just a word meaning "the people." To say "and with you too" changes that into a reply to the priest and into an ordinary dialogue (more than two people though) rather than a prayer. I'm all about simplifying language, if one word will do I see no need to change it so it's two words. It's unclear to me why there needs to be a distinction made between 'you' and 'your spirit' when, according to everything the priest says, we are not are bodies but spirit.
IMO, according to the beliefs of the church I go to, 'You' is synonymous with 'You're spirit'. Seems like they wanted to add a word and a couple syllables to every response so the most dense in the congregation could understand that church is a spiritual thing? While people are essentially spiritual beings we all have bodies too. Bodies are not inconsequential things. Perhaps you were told that bodies are important because they are "temples" of the Holy Spirit. |
|
|
|
Post by OldSamVimes on May 1, 2017 15:44:04 GMT
I'm all about simplifying language, if one word will do I see no need to change it so it's two words. It's unclear to me why there needs to be a distinction made between 'you' and 'your spirit' when, according to everything the priest says, we are not are bodies but spirit.
IMO, according to the beliefs of the church I go to, 'You' is synonymous with 'You're spirit'. Seems like they wanted to add a word and a couple syllables to every response so the most dense in the congregation could understand that church is a spiritual thing? While people are essentially spiritual beings we all have bodies too. Bodies are not inconsequential things. Perhaps you were told that bodies are important because they are "temples" of the Holy Spirit. If you get in a car to go for a drive you are inside the car, you are not the car.
Cars are not inconsequential things either. I'm pleased with that analogy.
|
|
|
|
Post by drystyx on May 2, 2017 17:17:54 GMT
Yes. Most people just call it the "soul", which once meant something different, but now for all intents and purposes means the spirit.
The spirit (or soul), the cognition, is not the brain. The brain is a mechanism that tells the soul and spirit what to do. The soul and spirit is what acts upon that. The brain is a meter. The nervous system is information. There is no biological need for a "spirit". It's tricked into reading the meter as long as the meter lasts, then the release, which should be sweet, is usually quite painful. What more proof does one require of the Satanic prince of this world overplaying his hand and being so obvious? I know the materialists like to bury their heads in the sand, but they know. They get the information. They just have self righteous spirits that are afraid of the truth.
|
|
