Post by stargazer1682 on Jun 4, 2020 2:11:00 GMT
The thing about the episode Destiny and the whole kerfuffle over which ensouled vampire was destined to Shanshu that I've often taken issue with, is that if there's a prophecy about a specific future event, whatever the outcome is and however they get there to fulfill it, is and always was what the prophecy was predicting. It doesn't matter if there are two ensouled vampire champions, whether it's Spike or Angel who ultimately fulfill it, that's who it was always going to be, regardless of anyone else's assumptions leading up to it; that's how "destiny" works. If it was Spike, he was always meant to learn back his soul and follow the path that leads to the fulfillment of that destiny.
That'd be like having a prophecy that a short blonde girl is going to pull an axe from a stone - there are a lot of short blonde girls in the world, but only one of them is destined to pull a particular axe our of a stone. No matter how blonde or short the other women of the world might be, just the fact that they meet the description doesn't mean the prophecy was ever about them.
But I digress.
And here's the rub, in the episode, "Destiny," when Spike is re-corporealized and all hell breaks loose at W&H, they say it's because the existence of two contenders for the Shanshu has thrown the universe into chaos. So they visit the Wesley substitute, Rutherford Sirk; and he gives them the cock and bull story about the Cup of Perpetual Torment - which turns out to be a complete lie. But when I re-watched the episode recently, there's arguably a tell, which may have been intentional or may not have been, but it makes the same case about the "Cup" as I do about the Shanshu.
It's part of this exchange:
Drinking from the cup is predestined. That can't be changed. Whoever drinks from it was meant to.
Now, the destiny and cup were phony in this instance, but the logic still remains; if a destiny is meant to be fulfilled, whomever fulfills it was always meant to fulfill it. No one else needs to know who it is; because the universe or God or whatever already knows and they don't care if anyone else knows or how much they know. If it's going to happen it's going to happen.
So while it's not unreasonable for the characters to overlook him saying this, it might have been interesting, at least from a perspective of taking the expected setup and twisting into another direction by picking up on a subtle nuance and having one of the characters say, "wait, if that's true about the cup, wouldn't it also be true about the Shanshu? Whomever it's going to be, it's going to be?" And then Sirk throws his book and makes a mad dash out of the room.
Maybe not.
The more obvious answer is that the whole thing, in addition to the ghostifying and resolidifying of Spoke, but also everything going wonky at Wolfram and Hart was all part of Lindsay and Eve's plan. If they can pull off the latter part, turning Spike into a pseudo ghost and effortlessly bringing him back, something Fred could only attempt once, requiring the equivalent of nuclear evil, and they did with a box and a flash; the rest of it seems like child's play.
And maybe that's meant to be the subtext, especially since they don't come out and say the chaos and confusion of which of them is the chosen vamp was a lie, but if it was the intention they play it close to the vest.
That'd be like having a prophecy that a short blonde girl is going to pull an axe from a stone - there are a lot of short blonde girls in the world, but only one of them is destined to pull a particular axe our of a stone. No matter how blonde or short the other women of the world might be, just the fact that they meet the description doesn't mean the prophecy was ever about them.
But I digress.
And here's the rub, in the episode, "Destiny," when Spike is re-corporealized and all hell breaks loose at W&H, they say it's because the existence of two contenders for the Shanshu has thrown the universe into chaos. So they visit the Wesley substitute, Rutherford Sirk; and he gives them the cock and bull story about the Cup of Perpetual Torment - which turns out to be a complete lie. But when I re-watched the episode recently, there's arguably a tell, which may have been intentional or may not have been, but it makes the same case about the "Cup" as I do about the Shanshu.
It's part of this exchange:
ANGEL
: Aw, come on, Spike. You really think this is about you?
SPIKE
: Oh, why the bloody hell not? Just 'cause you�
EVE
: Boys, let's focus on the problem at hand. We don't want to be wrong about this.
SIRK
: There is no wrong. The drinking of the cup is predestined. That can't be changed. Whoever drinks from it was meant to.
: Aw, come on, Spike. You really think this is about you?
SPIKE
: Oh, why the bloody hell not? Just 'cause you�
EVE
: Boys, let's focus on the problem at hand. We don't want to be wrong about this.
SIRK
: There is no wrong. The drinking of the cup is predestined. That can't be changed. Whoever drinks from it was meant to.
Now, the destiny and cup were phony in this instance, but the logic still remains; if a destiny is meant to be fulfilled, whomever fulfills it was always meant to fulfill it. No one else needs to know who it is; because the universe or God or whatever already knows and they don't care if anyone else knows or how much they know. If it's going to happen it's going to happen.
So while it's not unreasonable for the characters to overlook him saying this, it might have been interesting, at least from a perspective of taking the expected setup and twisting into another direction by picking up on a subtle nuance and having one of the characters say, "wait, if that's true about the cup, wouldn't it also be true about the Shanshu? Whomever it's going to be, it's going to be?" And then Sirk throws his book and makes a mad dash out of the room.
Maybe not.
The more obvious answer is that the whole thing, in addition to the ghostifying and resolidifying of Spoke, but also everything going wonky at Wolfram and Hart was all part of Lindsay and Eve's plan. If they can pull off the latter part, turning Spike into a pseudo ghost and effortlessly bringing him back, something Fred could only attempt once, requiring the equivalent of nuclear evil, and they did with a box and a flash; the rest of it seems like child's play.
And maybe that's meant to be the subtext, especially since they don't come out and say the chaos and confusion of which of them is the chosen vamp was a lie, but if it was the intention they play it close to the vest.
