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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 29, 2020 20:17:23 GMT
Do you suppose that we would’ve gotten Duel of the Fates? Or do you believe there were other reasons for why Colin Trevorrow dropped out?
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shinnickneth
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@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jul 29, 2020 21:29:18 GMT
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jul 29, 2020 22:38:56 GMT
Do you suppose that we would’ve gotten Duel of the Fates? Or do you believe there were other reasons for why Colin Trevorrow dropped out? There were other reasons. Carrie Fisher’s death had nothing to do with Trevorrow being fired. As shinnickneth outlined in his post, there were creative differences. Or more specifically, script reasons. As in, Kennedy rejected his script for specific reasons. Duel of Fates projected Luke Skywalker as a mentor to Rey. It also framed him as a very competent Force user. It also had him attempting to play the part of a voice of moral conscience to Kylo in “haunting Force ghost” visits that he would pay to Kylo. If episode IX had been Duel of Fates then (obviously) Luke would have had to have been a much more competent character in TLJ for it to make narrative since. But as we saw in TLJ, Luke was mostly incompetent. And he was a mentor to Rey in name only, virtually teaching and guiding her in nothing. Kathleen Kennedy wanted the idea that Rey would have (or need) a male mentor totally erased. Even one step further, she wanted there to be no doubt that Rey didn’t need one. And Rian “Ruin” Johnson, in his lust for complete creative freedom - and excessive subversion - was happy to write the story that way. After firing Trevorrow the plan was for Leia to be Rey’s mentor throughout episode 9. There was even some speculation that Leia might show off a lot of super Force powers; like a Lightside emperor Palpatine or a Yoda type character. But Fisher died, and her Leia mentor role was scaled back to a cameo using deleted scene footage. And Abrams gave Luke a brief “competent mentor” cameo to try smooth over some of the TLJ backlash. Nope. Sadly Carrie Fisher being alive or dead has no baring on Duel of Fates being cancelled. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 29, 2020 22:55:17 GMT
Do you suppose that we would’ve gotten Duel of the Fates? Or do you believe there were other reasons for why Colin Trevorrow dropped out? There were other reasons. Carrie Fisher’s death had nothing to do with Trevorrow being fired. As shinnickneth outlined in his post, there were creative differences. Or more specifically, script reasons. As in, Kennedy rejected his script for specific reasons. Duel of Fates projected Luke Skywalker as a mentor to Rey. It also framed him as a very competent Force user. It also had him attempting to play the part of a voice of moral conscience to Kylo in “haunting Force ghost” visits that he would pay to Kylo. If episode IX had been Duel of Fates then (obviously) Luke would have had to have been a much more competent character in TLJ for it to make narrative since. But as we saw in TLJ, Luke was mostly incompetent. And he was a mentor to Rey in name only, virtually teaching and guiding her in nothing. Kathleen Kennedy wanted the idea that Rey would have (or need) a male mentor totally erased. Even one step further, she wanted there to be no doubt that Rey didn’t need one. And Rian “Ruin” Johnson, in his lust for complete creative freedom - and excessive subversion - was happy to write the story that way. After firing Trevorrow the plan was for Leia to be Rey’s mentor throughout episode 9. There was even some speculation that Leia might show off a lot of super Force powers; like a Lightside emperor Palpatine or a Yoda type character. But Fisher died, and her Leia mentor role was scaled back to a cameo using deleted scene footage. And Abrams gave Luke a brief “competent mentor” cameo to try smooth over some of the TLJ backlash. Nope. Sadly Carrie Fisher being alive or dead has no baring on Duel of Fates being cancelled. If Kennedy’s vision was for Rey to not need a man to be strong, then TRoS kind of trampled over that idea more so than Trevorrow’s script, since it suggested that the reason Rey is so strong is because she’s related to Palpatine. |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jul 29, 2020 23:29:48 GMT
There were other reasons. Carrie Fisher’s death had nothing to do with Trevorrow being fired. As shinnickneth outlined in his post, there were creative differences. Or more specifically, script reasons. As in, Kennedy rejected his script for specific reasons. Duel of Fates projected Luke Skywalker as a mentor to Rey. It also framed him as a very competent Force user. It also had him attempting to play the part of a voice of moral conscience to Kylo in “haunting Force ghost” visits that he would pay to Kylo. If episode IX had been Duel of Fates then (obviously) Luke would have had to have been a much more competent character in TLJ for it to make narrative since. But as we saw in TLJ, Luke was mostly incompetent. And he was a mentor to Rey in name only, virtually teaching and guiding her in nothing. Kathleen Kennedy wanted the idea that Rey would have (or need) a male mentor totally erased. Even one step further, she wanted there to be no doubt that Rey didn’t need one. And Rian “Ruin” Johnson, in his lust for complete creative freedom - and excessive subversion - was happy to write the story that way. After firing Trevorrow the plan was for Leia to be Rey’s mentor throughout episode 9. There was even some speculation that Leia might show off a lot of super Force powers; like a Lightside emperor Palpatine or a Yoda type character. But Fisher died, and her Leia mentor role was scaled back to a cameo using deleted scene footage. And Abrams gave Luke a brief “competent mentor” cameo to try smooth over some of the TLJ backlash. Nope. Sadly Carrie Fisher being alive or dead has no baring on Duel of Fates being cancelled. If Kennedy’s vision was for Rey to not need a man to be strong, then TRoS kind of trampled over that idea more so than Trevorrow’s script, since it suggested that the reason Rey is so strong is because she’s related to Palpatine. Kennedy was more against the idea Rey not getting any of her skills, abilities, and progression from a man’s influence; more so than hereditary inheritance. But yeah, the Force bloodline from a man wasn’t part of Kathleen’s plan either. She wanted to continue the theme (from TLJ) that Rey is a nobody. The problem was that - being a nobody or not - Rey was still the only apex Force user that had no reason or foundation as to why she was the apex. Luke had bloodlines. Anakin and Yoda had an outrageous midichlorian count, and many others had honing through training and experience. In other words, they were 2 movies deep into the trilogy with nothing to counteract the idea that Rey was a MarySue (by Force user/lore standards). When Palps was brought back, it was decided it would be a clever plot twist for Rey to be his granddaughter. And a (another) compromise to shed the MarySue backlash. Unfortunately, they backed themselves into this corner. They had all of the time in the world to come up with their own unique explanation that still allowed for Rey to be a nobody, and didn’t involve some male character being responsible for it. It seems apparent that they didn’t want to. And when it became an issue for too many SW fans (relatively speaking), they rushed out this explanation that, in the end, compromised what they wanted to establish with the character. |
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It would have been impossible to come back from the mess that's Episode 8. 