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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 9:13:49 GMT
No, I don't mean latter-day video releases of Original Director's Cuts, or restorations of films once trimmed for general release so exhibitors could squeeze in more showings per day, or edits for foreign markets differing from those seen domestically or even ones subjected to last-minute cast changes just before production. I'm talking about the nearly infinite Versions That Never Were of films you know and love quite well.
Some directors, like William Wyler, became notorious for repeated takes of single scenes sometimes numbering into the dozens. Others were praised for their speed and spontaneity, like W.S. Van Dyke, earning him the nickname "One-Take Woody" but, even in his case, I'm willing to bet it was more hyperbole than fact. It was common practice to order multiple takes of any scene, and just as common for the director to order more than one circled on the camera report for the lab's printing instructions, leaving the decision of which to use until the final edit. In the days of the studio system, it was also common practice to shoot each scene all the way through with multiple setups of long, medium and two shots as well as closeups; what they used to call "coverage" for later editorial flexibility.
Equally common as well would be studio marketing departments planning their promotional campaigns long before post-production was complete, and they were left to their own devices in choosing from the director's printed takes and between those of the various setups.
Below are original trailers for Adam's Rib, Sunset Blvd and A Star is Born. In each case, they're assembled almost entirely from takes differing from those selected for the film as finally released.
In some, the differences from the finished films are quite subtle. In others, they're significant. And in all, it's easy to imagine the director's instructions after each one: Cukor saying, "Good, Spence, but let's do another and see if we can't tighten up the pace a bit;" Wilder saying, "Lovely, Gloria, but I want to see another with some more fury in your voice;" Cukor asking Garland, "Now, can you give me one more, and just completely let it rip?"
Note: legend has it that Cukor gave Garland just such an instruction, and when he praised her intensity afterward, she dryly said, "You should come out to the house sometime. I do that every night."
What the illustrations in these trailers tell us is that for every film you've seen, there are countless other versions of it that were never assembled; the same but not the same, but for decisions made in screening rooms or at Moviolas: "Mmmm, well, let's go with that one."
And they also reveal a great deal about how much a player must trust the bits and pieces of his or her performance to the director and/or editor to shape and hone into something complete and cohesive after the cameras have stopped rolling.
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Post by OldAussie on Aug 30, 2020 9:19:32 GMT
I've seen quite a few trailers on DVD extras which include scenes not in the final film - Spartacus is one which comes to mind.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 10:40:46 GMT
OldAussie and paulslaugh - Yes, snippets of excised scenes appearing in trailers was a fairly common occurrence, too. In the cases of these three, they all represent scenes that were in the finished films, but in different forms from those in the release prints. Another point of interest about them are the hints they give about the way an actor will sometimes vary their approach from take to take, kind of wiggling around within the role to see what works and what doesn't. And Spencer Tracy was well known to throw in such variances from one take to the next to keep other players on their toes by giving them something unexpected. Among the many benefits of the profitability of home video, paulslaugh, is the inducement it provides to production entities to hang onto outtakes, allowing for the possibility of monetizing what was once discarded as mere waste, as in the example you cite.
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Post by claudius on Aug 30, 2020 11:06:13 GMT
BEN-HUR: A TALE OF THE CHRIST (1925) Trailer showed alternates or extensions: a close-up of the Greek Chariot's destruction.
THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (1925) had different shots (the Bal Masque, the curtains opening to a different ballet dance).
THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD (1938) Trailer has Maid Marian say "Even if Danger..." in close-up rather than the finished film's profile shot with Robin.
THE WIZARD OF OZ (1939) Trailer has a shot of the excised scene where the Witch-mission accomplished gang return to the Emerald City to a triumphant reception.
CLEOPATRA (1963) Trailer includes an excised shot of 'snake dancers' from the Cleopatra Entry to Rome sequence.
CLUE (1985) Trailer includes an exchange between Colonel Mustard and Mr. Green, plus a different 'cast crash into each other' scene (this time in the Hall with Mrs. Peacock and Professor Plum)
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Post by mattgarth on Aug 30, 2020 12:57:08 GMT
The CASABLANCA trailer has Rick at the airport shooting Major Stresser while exclaiming ... (wait for it) ... "You dirty rat!"
Doing it silently in the finished film was a distinct improvement.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 14:55:39 GMT
BEN-HUR: A TALE OF THE CHRIST (1925) Trailer showed alternates or extensions: a close-up of the Greek Chariot's destruction. THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (1925) had different shots (the Bal Masque, the curtains opening to a different ballet dance). THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD (1938) Trailer has Maid Marian say "Even if Danger..." in close-up rather than the finished film's profile shot with Robin. THE WIZARD OF OZ (1939) Trailer has a shot of the excised scene where the Witch-mission accomplished gang return to the Emerald City to a triumphant reception. CLEOPATRA (1963) Trailer includes an excised shot of 'snake dancers' from the Cleopatra Entry to Rome sequence. CLUE (1985) Trailer includes an exchange between Colonel Mustard and Mr. Green, plus a different 'cast crash into each other' scene (this time in the Hall with Mrs. Peacock and Professor Plum) Nice examples, claudius. I've noticed also in the Robin Hood trailer that Flynn's vine-swinging landing onto the tree limb isn't quite as graceful or jaunty as the take used in the film. A YouTube user put together a short video comparing the different unmasking footage used in the 1925 and 1929 re-release versions of The Phantom Of the Opera. Quite interesting if you can get past the hokey narration.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 15:00:34 GMT
The CASABLANCA trailer has Rick at the airport shooting Major Stresser while exclaiming ... (wait for it) ... "You dirty rat!" Doing it silently in the finished film was a distinct improvement. Pretty close, Matt. It's, "All right, Major, you asked for it." But complete agreement on the effectiveness of the final edit.
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Post by mattgarth on Aug 30, 2020 15:04:51 GMT
The CASABLANCA trailer has Rick at the airport shooting Major Stresser while exclaiming ... (wait for it) ... "You dirty rat!" Doing it silently in the finished film was a distinct improvement. Pretty close, Matt. It's, "All right, Major, you asked for it." But complete agreement on the effectiveness of the final edit. I sit corrected, Doghouse.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 15:25:45 GMT
Pretty close, Matt. It's, "All right, Major, you asked for it." But complete agreement on the effectiveness of the final edit. I sit corrected, Doghouse. A position to which I can readily relate. Still, you're no slouch.
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Post by mattgarth on Aug 30, 2020 15:35:00 GMT
Yeah, no slouch -- my mum kept telling me to sit up straight.
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Post by Isapop on Aug 30, 2020 17:20:30 GMT
We can't go without mentioning the alternate version that wasn't just in coming attractions, but was a whole alternate movie. That's Oklahoma (1955). Mike Todd had director Fred Zinnemann shoot every scene once in Todd A-O and reshoot the same scene in Cinemascope. So, the two versions can't be exactly alike. Subtle differences in line delivery, an actor's posture and hand movements, etc. will all be present. I don't know of any other movie with such a history.
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Post by mattgarth on Aug 30, 2020 17:37:55 GMT
I think CAROUSEL was also shot the same way.
Sinatra was scheduled to play 'Billy Bigelow' -- but when he found out he had to play every scene twice, he quit.
Gordon McRae was then contacted to appear opposite Shirley Jones again.
A much better fit -- Frank could not fill out that shirt the way the more muscular Gordon could.
On the other hand -- CAROUSEL was made at Fox ... were they going to use Todd-AO?
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 17:54:56 GMT
We can't go without mentioning the alternate version that wasn't just in coming attractions, but was a whole alternate movie. That's Oklahoma (1955). Mike Todd had director Fred Zinnemann shoot every scene once in Todd A-O and reshoot the same scene in Cinemascope. So, the two versions can't be exactly alike. Subtle differences in line delivery, an actor's posture and hand movements, etc. will all be present. I don't know of any other movie with such a history. A noteworthy expansion of the topic, Isapop. Thanks for contributing it. There were at least a couple similar instances during a brief flirtation with widescreen presentations at the dawn of the talkies. The Bat Whispers was shot on both widescreen 65mm Magnifilm and standard 35mm, and John Wayne's first major lead role, The Big Trail, was similarly shot on Fox's 65mm Grandeur widescreen process as well as standard 35 the same year.
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Post by bravomailer on Aug 30, 2020 17:58:41 GMT
Pretty close, Matt. It's, "All right, Major, you asked for it." But complete agreement on the effectiveness of the final edit. I sit corrected, Doghouse. And then Strasser says, "Shoot me again, Rick"?
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 18:05:53 GMT
I think CAROUSEL was also shot the same way. Sinatra was scheduled to play 'Billy Bigelow' -- but when he found out he had to play every scene twice, he quit. Gordon McRae was then contacted to appear opposite Shirley Jones again. A much better fit -- Frank could not fill out that shirt the way the more muscular Gordon could. On the other hand -- CAROUSEL was made at Fox ... were they going to use Todd-AO? To your final question, no, actually. 20th-Fox had planned to shoot Carousel in both 35mm CinemaScope and their new process, CinemaScope55, which employed a 55mm negative and a less severe anamorphic compression/stretch. And indeed production began that way, but the 35mm shoot was quickly abandoned when the lab devised an acceptable way to manufacture 35mm reduction prints from the 55mm negative. In fact, those standard CinemaScope prints were the only way the film was ever exhibited. The King and I was shot on CinemaScope55 the following year, but likewise originally released only on 35mm CinemaScope. And just as a curiosity, it was re-released in 1961 printed to 70mm for exhibition, and the studio revived a brand from over 30 years earlier, calling it Grandeur70.
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Post by bravomailer on Aug 30, 2020 18:09:21 GMT
One or two trailers for The Thin Red Line have a Billy Bob Thornton narration. Thornton, Mickey Rourke, and others didn't survive the cuts.
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Post by Isapop on Aug 30, 2020 18:15:06 GMT
I think CAROUSEL was also shot the same way. That was the original plan for Carousel, to shoot two versions, like Oklahoma. And it was Sinatra's stated reason for walking away. But ultimately, technical advances allowed them to shoot just one version, Cinemascope 55.Considering how much Sinatra wanted the part, and how much preparation and rehearsal he put in, I was always always suspicious that his stated reason wasn't his real reason. Then I found this: As the story goes, Sinatra wasn’t up for filming everything twice—once for regular CinemaScope and the other for CinemaScope 55, a larger format introduced in 1955—stating, “You’re not getting two Sinatras for the price of one,” but it was later revealed that he was running to wife Ava Gardner’s side after Gardner threatened to have an affair with Clark Gable.www.playbill.com/article/shirley-jones-recalls-the-time-frank-sinatra-walked-out-of-carouselI find that much more believable.Don't agree. Billy's screen character, troubled, hard-headed, unpredictable, fit Sinatra to a tee. It was destined to be Sinatra's greatest film role.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 18:25:12 GMT
Don't agree. Billy's screen character, troubled, hard-headed, unpredictable, fit Sinatra to a tee. It was destined to be Sinatra's greatest film role. I saw what you did there.
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Post by mattgarth on Aug 30, 2020 18:28:25 GMT
Yep -- just being a wise-ass.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Aug 30, 2020 18:47:35 GMT
Yep -- just being a wise-ass. Must'a been that corrected sitting.
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