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Post by stefancrosscoe on Sept 25, 2020 7:36:57 GMT
 Manhunter (1986) - 10/10Silence of the Lambs (1991) - 8/10 Hannibal (2001) - 7/10 Red Dragon (2002) 5/10 And just for the "fun" of it, the absolute god awful and surely worst of the "series": Hannibal Rising (2007) - 2/10 15 years ago, I would have said Silence of the Lambs, but then I saw Manhunter in 2005, and it became not only my favorite of the the Lecter movies, but also one of the best crime thrillers I have seen, easily beating out pretty much everything I have seen before or afterwards, when it comes to crime and mystery thrillers. Of course, it also have a lot do to with not only the impressive gallery of talented and pretty much (back then) little known character actors, and where William Petersen and Tom Noonan delivers some very powerful and haunting performances, the kind that stays with you for a long while, and then behind it all, the incredible atmosphere, music, colors, visuals and where the combination of Michael Mann's "Miami Vice" style, along with the stunning images and work to that of Dante Spinotti, all gives the film a very special and unique style that goes so well with all that happens, and yet it never shows "too much" of all the horrible stuff which goes on or have happened, something sadly Red Dragon (2002) much later on would completely over do, and it just ended up feeling very cheap and forced upon the viewer. I might have a go with re-watching the first 3 films, but past that, I will never bother again with what followed Hannibal.
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 25, 2020 8:01:52 GMT
Manhunter (1986) - 10/10Silence of the Lambs (1991) - 8/10 Hannibal (2001) - 7/10 Red Dragon (2002) 5/10 And just for the "fun" of it, the absolute god awful and surely worst of the "series": Hannibal Rising (2007) - 2/10 15 years ago, I would have said Silence of the Lambs, but then I saw Manhunter in 2005, and it became not only my favorite of the the Lecter movies, but also one of the best crime thrillers I have seen, easily beating out pretty much everything I have seen before or afterwards, when it comes to crime and mystery thrillers. Of course, it also have a lot do to with not only the impressive gallery of talented and pretty much (back then) little known character actors, and where William Petersen and Tom Noonan delivers some very powerful and haunting performances, the kind that stays with you for a long while, and then behind it all, the incredible atmosphere, music, colors, visuals and where the combination of Michael Mann's "Miami Vice" style, along with the stunning images and work to that of Dante Spinotti, all gives the film a very special and unique style that goes so well with all that happens, and yet it never shows "too much" of all the horrible stuff which goes on or have happened, something sadly Red Dragon (2002) much later on would completely over do, and it just ended up feeling very cheap and forced upon the viewer. I might have a go with re-watching the first 3 films, but past that, I will never bother again with what followed Hannibal. Love what you said here about the movie. I completely agree. Noonan and Petersen are both so good, both characters so sad and haunted. The part where Dollarhyde is in bed next to a sleeping Joan Allen and he begins to (silently?) cry is just tragic. It's like it's the first time he has ever felt these normal, healthy, tender human feelings. If only he'd met her before it became too late for him. And Will Graham, who is also haunted and seems like he could have gone in a similar direction if it weren't for his loving wife and son. The supermarket scene with Will and Kevin always gets me. I don't think I ever knew about "Hannibal Rising". I will have to look and see what I can find out about it, though if you say it's worse than than "Red Dragon", it is likely dreadful. |
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Post by stefancrosscoe on Sept 25, 2020 8:34:08 GMT
Love what said here about the movie. I completely agree. Noonan and Petersen are both so good, both characters so sad and haunted. The part where Dollarhyde is in bed a sleeping Joan Allen and he begins to (silently?) is just tragic. It's like it's the first time he has ever felt these normal, healthy, tender human feelings. If only he'd met her before it became too late for him. I like that Noonan's Francis is portrayed here as not just another "creepy Hollywood serial killer", and while at first he might look the part, but there is so much more, and even though he has done terrible things, one still manages to feel for him and hope he might somewhere along the way stop, or finally be able to "beat" the Red Dragon. Sadly, it never happens, but as you so well put it, he have most likely spent his entire life as a very lonely and tormented soul, and his reaction towards being accepted, is such a strong and beautiful scene. And Will Graham, who is also haunted and seems like he could have gone in a similar direction if it weren't for his loving wife and son. The supermarket scene with Will and Kevin always gets me. William Petersen was fantastic here, and surely played the part incredible, as a man who seemed to be almost possessed at times, and as you said, it could have ended very badly, if not for his beloved and supporting family and friends. The supermarket scene is just such a fine little scene, that is made even better, as it all seems so "random", and I love how the conversasion so naturally goes on between Will and his son, from talking about Will's own nightmarish meeting with Dr. Lecter and trying to get inside the mind of someone with so much darkness and evil, towards ending up with what kind of coffee brand they will pick up for mom. Kevin: "And the way he thought felt that bad?" Graham: "Kevin, they're the ugliest thoughts in the world."I don't think I ever knew about "Hannibal Rising". I will have to look and see what I can find out about it, though if you say it's worse than than "Red Dragon", it is likely dreadful. I guess it is one of those, enter at your own risk, kind of films. I only saw it because I got it from my uncle, and I decided to give it a shot, but I knew I was in for something "special", very early on. Sadly for my part, it was truly a huge turd of a movie, one I remember there used to be quite some "hype" around back in 2004-05, but it did not get released until around 2007.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 25, 2020 10:06:41 GMT
Love what said here about the movie. I completely agree. Noonan and Petersen are both so good, both characters so sad and haunted. The part where Dollarhyde is in bed a sleeping Joan Allen and he begins to (silently?) is just tragic. It's like it's the first time he has ever felt these normal, healthy, tender human feelings. If only he'd met her before it became too late for him. I like that Noonan's Francis is portrayed here as not just another "creepy Hollywood serial killer", and while at first he might look the part, but there is so much more, and even though he has done terrible things, one still manages to feel for him and hope he might somewhere along the way stop, or finally be able to "beat" the Red Dragon. Sadly, it never happens, but as you so well put it, he have most likely spent his entire life as a very lonely and tormented soul, and his reaction towards being accepted, is such a strong and beautiful scene. And Will Graham, who is also haunted and seems like he could have gone in a similar direction if it weren't for his loving wife and son. The supermarket scene with Will and Kevin always gets me. William Petersen was fantastic here, and surely played the part incredible, as a man who seemed to be almost possessed at times, and as you said, it could have ended very badly, if not for his beloved and supporting family and friends. The supermarket scene is just such a fine little scene, that is made even better, as it all seems so "random", and I love how the conversasion so naturally goes on between Will and his son, from talking about Will's own nightmarish meeting with Dr. Lecter and trying to get inside the mind of someone with so much darkness and evil, towards ending up with what kind of coffee brand they will pick up for mom. Kevin: "And the way he thought felt that bad?" Graham: "Kevin, they're the ugliest thoughts in the world."I don't think I ever knew about "Hannibal Rising". I will have to look and see what I can find out about it, though if you say it's worse than than "Red Dragon", it is likely dreadful. I guess it is one of those, enter at your own risk, kind of films. I only saw it because I got it from my uncle, and I decided to give it a shot, but I knew I was in for something "special", very early on. Sadly for my part, it was truly a huge turd of a movie, one I remember there used to be quite some "hype" around back in 2004-05, but it did not get released until around 2007. My issue is that I never felt sorry for Dolorhyde here and didn't care at what happens to him. I found Ralph Fiennes far more effective. I was able to relate more to his portrayal. The Will Graham side of the story is much better here than in Red Dragon though. In Manhunter it is really his story more than anything, while in Red Dragon it is more Francis Dolorhyde's story imo. I have always found it far more interesting that in Red Dragon he thinks he is ugly, but is actually attractive. That is one of the things I dislike about Manhunter is that it goes out of it's way to make him look like a monster. He is very awkward in Manhunter, where in Red Dragon he blends in more. In Red Dragon we get the impression that he has never even been interested in sex and has never really been lonely, which is the way I think about sociopaths. The sex isn't a big deal for him here, but he does like her as a person and does want to be with her. I like how he resorts to a more childlike reaction when he confronts the Red Dragon after they have sex for the first time. His Grandma still controlling him in his mind through the dragon. The Red Dragon stuff is too subtle in Manhunter for my taste and that is also part of why I prefer Red Dragon. You actually see his progression with the tattoo and the way he moves his body so it looks like he is being changed from the inside and also the weight lifting. There is more of a difference in personality between normal Dolorhyde and him when he is the dragon here imo.
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 25, 2020 11:46:42 GMT
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 25, 2020 13:04:14 GMT
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Post by Sulla on Sept 25, 2020 16:16:31 GMT
SotL is my favorite, but I love the scene in Manhunter where Will crashes through the window to the tune of the Iron Butterfly song.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 25, 2020 23:44:20 GMT
SotL is my favorite, but I love the scene in Manhunter where Will crashes through the window to the tune of the Iron Butterfly song. I had to bring this up, just as being a great example of how people can have the exact opposite opinion. The one scene you mention as something you love about Manhunter, is one of the parts I dislike in Manhunter. I dislike that entire scene.
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Post by jcush on Sept 25, 2020 23:50:03 GMT
"Manhunter" is by far my favorite and am watching it right now. Dark, intense and emotional, this one does it for me. It has the best sidebar killer as well as the best HL and my favorite protagonist. William Peterson is so vulnerable, it is touching. Also, great look and amazing score. ***1/2 "Silence of the Lambs" is pretty entertaining, even if I do find Anthony Hopkins' hammy performance to be overrated. **3/4 "Hannibal" - not boring, just gross ** "Red Dragon" - Ed Norton and Ralph Fiennes were badly miscast, imo. And whereas I was very scared for Joan Allen in "Manhunter", I didn't give two hoots for bland ole Emily Watson here. *1/2 Manhunter is a very inconsistent movie for me. There is so much about it I like a lot, but too much that I dislike and even some stuff I hate about it. There is a lot of nuance, but also a lot of really stupid stuff and some stuff that is so subtle it barely makes an impression at all. Brian Cox's performance and the blink and you'll miss it Red Dragon stuff for example. The highs are so high that the lows are more distracting than they would be otherwise. If Red Dragon and Manhunter were combined, that would have made a great movie imo.Emily Watson deserved an Oscar nomination for supporting actress imo. I think Joan Allen is bland in Manhunter by comparison. I would have liked to see Michael Mann direct Ratner's cast.
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Post by Sulla on Sept 25, 2020 23:59:06 GMT
SotL is my favorite, but I love the scene in Manhunter where Will crashes through the window to the tune of the Iron Butterfly song. I had to bring this up, just as being a great example of how people can have the exact opposite opinion. The one scene you mention as something you love about Manhunter, is one of the parts I dislike in Manhunter. I dislike that entire scene. Haha! Yeah, I recall we've disagreed before about what we like. It's just as well because it would be a pretty boring world if we all agreed on everything. I respect your opinions, though, because sometimes they help me see things in a different way.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 0:16:05 GMT
I had to bring this up, just as being a great example of how people can have the exact opposite opinion. The one scene you mention as something you love about Manhunter, is one of the parts I dislike in Manhunter. I dislike that entire scene. Haha! Yeah, I recall we've disagreed before about what we like. It's just as well because it would be a pretty boring world if we all agreed on everything. I respect your opinions, though, because sometimes they help me see things in a different way. We agree on that for sure. On the flip side we agree about Hannibal though. 
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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 26, 2020 0:19:36 GMT
I like that Noonan's Francis is portrayed here as not just another "creepy Hollywood serial killer", and while at first he might look the part, but there is so much more, and even though he has done terrible things, one still manages to feel for him and hope he might somewhere along the way stop, or finally be able to "beat" the Red Dragon. Sadly, it never happens, but as you so well put it, he have most likely spent his entire life as a very lonely and tormented soul, and his reaction towards being accepted, is such a strong and beautiful scene. He's like a Universal monster in some ways--a relationship with the blind woman--The Man Who Laughs. The product of a tormented childhood--and we don't even need to see it-just the remark about being tortured as a baby. There's also the scene when he is with Joan Allen and someone walks in and he gets startled. And then the tragedy of him misinterpreting the scene with her and the other guy--because deep down he can never believe he would be accepted--and her reaction--the scene where she lashes out attempting to defend herself I find particularly disturbing. None of the Hopkins films had any moments like that--the dramatics are more simplistic and cartoony.
Brian Cox's Lector is in no way someone to warm to, while Hopkins in the first film is ultimately a kind of a twisted surrogate father or mentor to Foster, and then becomes even more of a charming personality in the latter ones. I think it is bad taste to make him into such a character--it's different from Noonan's Francis. There's almost a celebration of Lector the serial killer in those films.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 0:31:34 GMT
Manhunter is a very inconsistent movie for me. There is so much about it I like a lot, but too much that I dislike and even some stuff I hate about it. There is a lot of nuance, but also a lot of really stupid stuff and some stuff that is so subtle it barely makes an impression at all. Brian Cox's performance and the blink and you'll miss it Red Dragon stuff for example. The highs are so high that the lows are more distracting than they would be otherwise. If Red Dragon and Manhunter were combined, that would have made a great movie imo.Emily Watson deserved an Oscar nomination for supporting actress imo. I think Joan Allen is bland in Manhunter by comparison. I would have liked to see Michael Mann direct Ratner's cast. I have such conflicting thoughts and feelings when it comes to Manhunter, even within each individual performance. Joan Allen and Stephen Lang are the most consistent for me. Brian Cox is consistent as well, but he leaves almost no impression. David Lynch I think showed interest in adapting the Red Dragon novel at some point before Manhunter. That would have been very interesting.
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Post by darkpast on Sept 26, 2020 4:42:24 GMT
Manhunter cause it has Chris Elliot
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