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Post by petrolino on Oct 12, 2020 0:59:14 GMT
Everybody deserves a voice but one look at imdb makes you realise people vote movies down due to personal / private grudges / prejudices. That's what I find deeply objectionable (so I reject it as a consumer outright). Of course they do. For me at least it is literally impossible for me to rate a movie objectively and that also ruins what I find so interesting about art. Anybody who says they don't have those things is either in denial or a flat out liar. Now if you mean people who down-vote past their actual opinion to make the rating go lower on whatever website, especially before watching the movie then I agree. My ratings are merely a subjective reflection of how much I like the movie. Anybody who thinks my ratings are something else are mistaken.
I'm not critical here of individuals. Just those who bring an agenda to their supposedly "straight-up" critical theory. And "overrated" is a meaningless term whatever way you cut it. It's outright snobbery of the first order used to elevate and demonise opposing views.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Oct 12, 2020 1:01:59 GMT
moviemouth What we have now is a movie being judged because it is "over-liked" or "under-liked" compared to other movies. This whole comparison by "ratings" by amateur movie "experts" affects opinions of movies unfairly,imo. Movies USED to be liked or disliked on their own merits and not "this one was liked more than that one so I don't like it BECAUSE of that! Sure there were always media based "critics" but they were professionals and supposedly trained in knowing more about what they were talking when it came to film/book/plays than some random person with a vote on the internet. You are someone assuming the purpose of everyone's rating and the way everyone judges movies. You are throwing everyone in the same basket and that is a mistake that an intelligent person like you should not be making. Everyone is a movie critic whether they want to admit it or not. The average movie goer is who is important, not the people who "know what they are talking about." Art isn't science. I am NOT "throwing everyone into the same basket" .. I am writing specifically about those who do critique moves with their main concern being that it was "over-rated" or "under-rated". I cannot agree that the opinions of Joe on the internet who won't watch a movie because it is in black and white or who finds a film like Casablanca boring and slow is a more reliable critic than a Roger Ebert or a Gene Siskel.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 1:04:33 GMT
Of course they do. For me at least it is literally impossible for me to rate a movie objectively and that also ruins what I find so interesting about art. Anybody who says they don't have those things is either in denial or a flat out liar. Now if you mean people who down-vote past their actual opinion to make the rating go lower on whatever website, especially before watching the movie then I agree. My ratings are merely a subjective reflection of how much I like the movie. Anybody who thinks my ratings are something else are mistaken.
I'm not critical here of individuals. Just those who bring an agenda to their supposedly "straight-up" critical theory. And "overrated" is a meaningless term whatever way you cut it. It's outright snobbery of the first order used to elevate and demonise opposing views.
I agree with the word overrated in the way you mean, but some people use it as shorthand to say they don't like the movie or don't get why most people like/love it. Then again, some people who have a problem wuth the word overrated have no issue throwing around the word underrated and there is a word for that. I have a pet peeve with the terms overrated and underrated, so we are on the same page here at least.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 1:08:00 GMT
You are someone assuming the purpose of everyone's rating and the way everyone judges movies. You are throwing everyone in the same basket and that is a mistake that an intelligent person like you should not be making. Everyone is a movie critic whether they want to admit it or not. The average movie goer is who is important, not the people who "know what they are talking about." Art isn't science. I am NOT "throwing everyone into the same basket" .. I am writing specifically about those who do critique moves with their main concern being that it was "over-rated" or "under-rated". I cannot agree that the opinions of Joe on the internet who won't watch a movie because it is in black and white or who finds a film like Casablanca boring and slow is a more reliable critic than a Roger Ebert or a Gene Siskel. I don't want to straw man you here, but aren't you the guy who won't even give most modern movies a chance and then sits there complaining about the non-existent plots of modern movies? You are literally doing the same thing as the people you are criticizing. Joe on the street isn't a real critic. Joe on the street is just saying he finds Casablanca boring. He is just saying what he thinks about the movie. That is it. If he is saying that everyone should think Casablanca is boring then he needs a good talking to. That is the difference.
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gw
Junior Member
@gw
Posts: 1,522
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Post by gw on Oct 12, 2020 1:10:06 GMT
I saw part of it on tv once and I enjoyed what I saw. It wasn't incredibly scary but it was still entertaining and had a good performance of demonic possession.
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Post by petrolino on Oct 12, 2020 1:10:49 GMT
I'm not critical here of individuals. Just those who bring an agenda to their supposedly "straight-up" critical theory. And "overrated" is a meaningless term whatever way you cut it. It's outright snobbery of the first order used to elevate and demonise opposing views.
I agree with the word overrated in the way you mean, but some people use it as shorthand to say they don't like the movie or don't get why most people like/love it. Then again, some people who have a problem wuth the word overrated have no issue throwing around the word underrated and there is a word for that. I have a pet peeve with the terms overrated and underrated, so we are on the same page here at least. You know I respect you because you always explain your position which is coherent, cogent and provocative. The words themselves aren't the problem to me as words are great. It's the misuse of them as lazy online shorthand to deride, deject and dismiss that I find clearly objectionable. Hell, with the Cleveland Browns (my team) winning tonight, I might even go so far as to say it actually pisses me off.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 1:17:58 GMT
I agree with the word overrated in the way you mean, but some people use it as shorthand to say they don't like the movie or don't get why most people like/love it. Then again, some people who have a problem wuth the word overrated have no issue throwing around the word underrated and there is a word for that. I have a pet peeve with the terms overrated and underrated, so we are on the same page here at least. You know I respect you because you always explain your position which is coherent, cogent and provocative. The words themselves aren't the problem to me as words are great. It's the misuse of them as lazy online shorthand to deride, deject and dismiss that I find clearly objectionable. Hell, with the Cleveland Browns (my team) winning tonight, I might even go so far as to say it actually pisses me off. Words are just tools to understand what another person means. I have no problem with people using words in a idiosyncratic way, but they have to define what they mean by the word before using it then. Overrated has a knee-jerk "I dismiss the majority opinion and I am right" sound to it. People must realize this. This is why I tend to avoid using the word at all. That goes for underrated as well. There is also a thing where people use "underrated" as the same as "underseen" or not discussed enough and that is also something that bugs me. Thank you for your compliments btw.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Oct 12, 2020 1:19:37 GMT
I don't want to straw man you here, but aren't you the guy who won't even give most modern movies a chance and then sits there complaining about the non-existent plots of modern movies?Nope... not me. I see modern movies and compared to the Classics, in general prefer the classics. I don't think I am in the habit of sitting "there complaining about the non-existent plots of modern movies" but I have the feeling there might be a link to some random remark I may have made about a film or two somewhere or other.
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Post by petrolino on Oct 12, 2020 1:22:31 GMT
You know I respect you because you always explain your position which is coherent, cogent and provocative. The words themselves aren't the problem to me as words are great. It's the misuse of them as lazy online shorthand to deride, deject and dismiss that I find clearly objectionable. Hell, with the Cleveland Browns (my team) winning tonight, I might even go so far as to say it actually pisses me off. Words are just tools to understand what another person means. I have no problem with people using words in a idiosyncratic way, but they have to define what they mean by the word before using it then. Overrated has a knee-jerk "I dismiss the majority opinion and I am right" sound to it. People must realize this. This is why I tend to avoid using the word at all. That goes for underrated as well. There is also a thing where people use "underrated" as the same as "underseen" or not discussed enough and that is also something that bugs me. Thank you for your compliments btw. The clear trouble with "overrated" is what Depeche Mode satirised as 'Music For The Masses', a play on "opium of the people / masses". It's painful and permanently extracting, what can I say.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 1:24:53 GMT
I don't want to straw man you here, but aren't you the guy who won't even give most modern movies a chance and then sits there complaining about the non-existent plots of modern movies?Nope... not me. I see modern movies and compared to the Classics, in general prefer the classics. I don't think I am in the habit of sitting "there complaining about the non-existent plots of modern movies" but I have the feeling there might be a link to some random remark I may have made about a film or two somewhere or other. Thank you for clearing that up. I am sorry if I misrepresented your position. Things you have said in the past and just last week for example have heavily implied to me something different. I slightly prefer the modern era just because I am more familiar with it and was raised with it, but as I am sure you know, I am a big fan of the classic era as well.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 1:27:46 GMT
Words are just tools to understand what another person means. I have no problem with people using words in a idiosyncratic way, but they have to define what they mean by the word before using it then. Overrated has a knee-jerk "I dismiss the majority opinion and I am right" sound to it. People must realize this. This is why I tend to avoid using the word at all. That goes for underrated as well. There is also a thing where people use "underrated" as the same as "underseen" or not discussed enough and that is also something that bugs me. Thank you for your compliments btw. The clear trouble with "overrated" is what Depeche Mode satirised as 'Music For The Masses', a play on "opium of the people / masses". It's painful and permanently extracting, what can I say.
I already agreed.
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Post by petrolino on Oct 12, 2020 1:37:54 GMT
The clear trouble with "overrated" is what Depeche Mode satirised as 'Music For The Masses', a play on "opium of the people / masses". It's painful and permanently extracting, what can I say.
I already agreed. I only get bent out of shape when armchair critics (which is all of us) dismiss the hard-fought work of artists with no reasonable justification for their views.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 1:45:35 GMT
I only get bent out of shape when armchair critics (which is all of us) dismiss the hard-fought work of artists with no reasonable justification for their views. I don't dismiss their work unless it is worthy of dismissal. I despised Cloverfield for example and my rating reflects my opinion. I am not dismissing it, I just don't like it. I would never tell anyone to not watch it for example and I wouldn't argue with someone who does like it. I would just say that I don't and then explain my reasons to the best of my ability. Anything else is just me lying about my opinion. The spoof movies of the past couple decades I do dismiss as lazy garbage and an assault on the intelligence of humanity and are a disgrace to art. I am being a bit hyperbolic just for fun. A monkey could have made a better movie than Scary Movie 5.
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Post by dirtypillows on Oct 12, 2020 1:56:41 GMT
I only get bent out of shape when armchair critics (which is all of us) dismiss the hard-fought work of artists with no reasonable justification for their views. That's always rubbed me the wrong way, too. Particularly with the smaller budget films. I've always liked Pauline Kael, but as I get older, I do find her to be a bit of a jerk at times. She can be perceptive as witty, but sometimes she's just nasty. The thing that irks me the most about her is that she acts all offended when somebody calls her out, but has zero problem doing so to others. |
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Post by petrolino on Oct 12, 2020 1:57:09 GMT
I only get bent out of shape when armchair critics (which is all of us) dismiss the hard-fought work of artists with no reasonable justification for their views. I don't dismiss their work unless it is worthy of dismissal. I despised Cloverfield for example and my rating reflects my opinion. I am not dismissing it, I just don't like it. I would never tell anyone to not watch it for example and I wouldn't argue with someone who does like it. I would just say that I don't and then explain my reasons to the best of my ability. Anything else is just me lying about my opinion. The spoof movies of the past couple decades I do dismiss as lazy garbage and an assault on the intelligence of humanity and are a disgrace to art. I am being a bit hyperbolic just for fun. A monkey could have made a better movie than Scary Movie 5. 'Cloverfield' sucks the big one but I need to explain why.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 2:01:22 GMT
I don't dismiss their work unless it is worthy of dismissal. I despised Cloverfield for example and my rating reflects my opinion. I am not dismissing it, I just don't like it. I would never tell anyone to not watch it for example and I wouldn't argue with someone who does like it. I would just say that I don't and then explain my reasons to the best of my ability. Anything else is just me lying about my opinion. The spoof movies of the past couple decades I do dismiss as lazy garbage and an assault on the intelligence of humanity and are a disgrace to art. I am being a bit hyperbolic just for fun. A monkey could have made a better movie than Scary Movie 5. 'Cloverfield' sucks the big one but I need to explain why. Are you mocking me? If that is the case then we are done. I am sorry if some filmmaker, wannabe filmmaker or fan is such a cry-baby that they can't stand differing opinions.
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Post by petrolino on Oct 12, 2020 2:06:29 GMT
'Cloverfield' sucks the big one but I need to explain why. Are you mocking me? If that is the case then we are done. No. But I'm happy to be done.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 12, 2020 2:11:05 GMT
Are you mocking me? If that is the case then we are done. No. But I'm happy to be done. That took a strange turn. Were you saying that you think Cloverfield sucks? If that is the case I find it very odd how you left it how you did. If not, then you were mocking me and are now are dishonest to boot.
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Post by petrolino on Oct 12, 2020 2:14:42 GMT
No. But I'm happy to be done. That took a strange turn. Were you saying that you think Cloverfield sucks? If that is the case I find it very odd how you left it how you did. If not, then you were mocking me and are now are dishonest to boot. Bollocks.
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Post by Prime etc. on Oct 12, 2020 2:42:41 GMT
Your mother sews socks in Hell Karras!
Classics Of The Horror Film devoted the last couple pages to the Exorcist which had just come out ("as we go to print"). He said people were lining up around the block to watch it and time would tell if it ended up as a classic.
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