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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 22, 2020 20:06:58 GMT
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Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 22, 2020 20:13:00 GMT
Don't worry, I'm sure they're willing to make exceptions for people like Ben Carson and Candace Owens
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 22, 2020 20:29:11 GMT
Don't worry, I'm sure they're willing to make exceptions for people like Ben Carson and Candace Owens They could claim Odin is their granddaddy. That dude got around.
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Post by goz on Dec 22, 2020 22:38:45 GMT
Gee, a church for white people. That's novel.  |
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Post by Isapop on Dec 22, 2020 23:15:25 GMT
It’s not a church, but there’s not a lot to be done about it. These folks have freedom of religion and if their faith says only certain people can join, that’s their right. The permit appears to have been granted on the basis of it being a church, and the city didn't want to get into a religious freedom legal battle. And the organization is recognized as a non-profit religious organization. So, it's certainly legally recognized as a church. How (as I asked on the other board) are they going to enforce its "whites only" policy? If some black people decided to attend a meeting, will the pastor call the police?
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Post by Isapop on Dec 23, 2020 1:33:27 GMT
The permit appears to have been granted on the basis of it being a church, and the city didn't want to get into a religious freedom legal battle. And the organization is recognized as a non-profit religious organization. So, it's certainly legally recognized as a church. How (as I asked on the other board) are they going to enforce its "whites only" policy? If some black people decided to attend a meeting, will the pastor call the police? And yes, they can call the police. The Mormons have temples that only a Mormon may enter. Any non-Mormon who tries will have the police call on them. Same thing. In one way it's the same thing. But in another way, it's very different. If I were a cop, I'd much rather deal with that non-Mormon than to drag a peaceful black churchgoer out of church with a "Whites Only" sign.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 23, 2020 1:33:54 GMT
The permit appears to have been granted on the basis of it being a church, and the city didn't want to get into a religious freedom legal battle. And the organization is recognized as a non-profit religious organization. So, it's certainly legally recognized as a church. How (as I asked on the other board) are they going to enforce its "whites only" policy? If some black people decided to attend a meeting, will the pastor call the police? Legally it’s a church, I guess, but the Asatru are not Christians, they’re Odinists which is new age bullshit religion. However, many churches, mosques, and synagogues practice sexism, if not overt racism, within the “church” and it’s their legal right to do so. The Catholic Church does not hire woman priests. Some temples and all mosques practice sex segregation. And yes, they can call the police. The Mormons have temples that only a Mormon may enter. Any non-Mormon who tries will have the police call on them. Same thing. That pos avalon guy will probably convert to join this group.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 23, 2020 2:09:40 GMT
In one way it's the same thing. But in another way, it's very different. If I were a cop, I'd much rather deal with that non-Mormon than to drag a peaceful black churchgoer out of church with a "Whites Only" sign. Why would a black person want to worship Odin, Thor, and the other Aesir gods? I don't know. But I can imagine a gutsy and principled black person wanting to attend a meeting that's billed "Whites Only". Maybe more than one. I think it would be great if some white people teamed with them. They could pair up. Then, when somebody tells them, "He can't come in", the white replies, "It's Okay, he's with me". Is the church really going call the cops? I'm not questioning the legality of their rule. But I really wonder if they're committed to the sheer ugliness of enforcing it.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 23, 2020 23:16:40 GMT
In one way it's the same thing. But in another way, it's very different. If I were a cop, I'd much rather deal with that non-Mormon than to drag a peaceful black churchgoer out of church with a "Whites Only" sign. Churches are not businesses and they can put up a Whites Only sign. Because we have free speech and free assembly in the horribly inadequate USA. Just like you can keep anybody out of your home if they are not invited. Like I say, I don't dispute the legality.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 23, 2020 23:31:05 GMT
Like I say, I don't dispute the legality. And I seriously doubt a black person would want to join the First Church of Odin. I'm getting the feeling you missed my previous comment. I'll post it again: But I can imagine a gutsy and principled black person wanting to attend a meeting that's billed "Whites Only". Maybe more than one. I think it would be great if some white people teamed with them. They could pair up. Then, when somebody tells them, "He can't come in", the white replies, "It's Okay, he's with me". Is the church really going call the cops? I'm not questioning the legality of their rule. But I really wonder if they're committed to the sheer ugliness of enforcing it.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 24, 2020 0:06:01 GMT
I'm getting the feeling you missed my previous comment. I'll post it again: But I can imagine a gutsy and principled black person wanting to attend a meeting that's billed "Whites Only". Maybe more than one. I think it would be great if some white people teamed with them. They could pair up. Then, when somebody tells them, "He can't come in", the white replies, "It's Okay, he's with me". Is the church really going call the cops? I'm not questioning the legality of their rule. But I really wonder if they're committed to the sheer ugliness of enforcing it. I get it, but why do you assume a black person would want to do this? Why not white person crashing a Nation of Islam (no whites allowed) meeting? A "Blacks only" restriction doesn't have the "hate that needs to be challenged" history in this country that the "Whites only" restriction has. It doesn't offend me that a Nation Of Islam service would not admit me into a meeting. But I can easily see how a black person would be offended by a church that won't admit him, and I can see how it might cross his mind to challenge it by showing up.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 24, 2020 0:35:50 GMT
A "Blacks only" restriction doesn't have the "hate that needs to be challenged" history in this country that the "Whites only" restriction has. It doesn't offend me that a Nation Of Islam service would not admit me into a meeting. But I can easily see how a black person would be offended by a church that won't admit him, and I can see how it might cross his mind to challenge it by showing up. You’re overthinking this. However, if you feel that strongly about it, go there wearing yarmulke and tell me what happened. I don't think I'm overthinking it. Nation Of Islam not being open to whites doesn't make the news. But some little church declaring itself "Whites Only" does make the news. That's a good indication right there that the general public wouldn't see them in the same light.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 24, 2020 1:41:03 GMT
I don't think I'm overthinking it. Nation Of Islam not being open to whites doesn't make the news. But some little church declaring itself "Whites Only" does make the news. That's a good indication right there that the general public wouldn't see them in the same light. NoI has been exclusive since the 1950s. This little “church,” known as the Asatru Folk Assembly, is a “folk ” congregation. That is they practice white supremacy as a religious doctrine...so they say. Only people who are of Germanic/Nordic/Celt descent can join them in worship. That means even Asians, Native Americans, Greeks, Spanish, Middle easterners, etc, are excluded. And they are so racist, they were kicked out of the greater Odinist movement a while back. From wikipedia: In the late 1990s, the AFA got involved in a protracted fight over the remains of the Kennewick Man: it claimed that they were the remains of a European ancestor and were allowed to approach, but not touch, the coffin holding him.[12] Later testing found that the Kennewick Man was genetically similar to Native Americans and Ainu people. In May 2017, Facebook deleted the AFA's primary social media outlet, citing hate speech as the reason.[13] In 2018, the Southern Poverty Law Center added the AFA to its list of hate groups as part of a new category called "neo-Völkisch".[14] The Anti-Defamation League lists the AFA as an "extremist group".[15] In December 2019, two members of the Army National Guard received a general discharge after their involvement as leaders of an AFA group in Alabama and Georgia was brought to light. Both had previously attended a rally by Richard B. Spencer. One was on active duty in Afghanistan and one worked as a jailer for the Haralson County Sheriff's Office until the broadcast of their involvement, at which point the employment was terminated.[16]
That seems to be the heart of it. And while they can legally do so, enforcing it would be a particularly ugly spectacle, just made to be captured on someone's cell phone for immediate viral status. So, it's not hard to see an attempt to challenge their policy, and makes me wonder if they would really insist on enforcing it.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 24, 2020 2:19:08 GMT
"That is they practice white supremacy as a religious doctrine...so they say."
That seems to be the heart of it. And while they can legally do so, enforcing it would be a particularly ugly spectacle, just made to be captured on someone's cell phone for immediate viral status. So, it's not hard to see an attempt to challenge their policy, and makes me wonder if they would really insist on enforcing it. It’s like this, you can sue anybody, but if the Constitution is on their side, and racist views and opinions are not illegal, you’d never get a dime out of it. I doubt they have more than few 100 members worldwide.  I know the law is on their side. I don't question that. I question whether they would really call the cops if a black person attempted to attend one of their services, and thus create for themselves a very ugly and very public incident.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 24, 2020 2:36:33 GMT
I know the law is on their side. I don't question that. I question whether they would really call the cops if a black person attempted to attend one of their services, and thus create for themselves a very ugly and very public incident. I would hope they’d call the police and not kill the person. Or they can decline both options (the wisest course, I'd say.)
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Dec 24, 2020 19:35:20 GMT
In one way it's the same thing. But in another way, it's very different. If I were a cop, I'd much rather deal with that non-Mormon than to drag a peaceful black churchgoer out of church with a "Whites Only" sign. Why would a black person want to worship Odin, Thor, and the other Aesir gods? I’m not defending this racist “church,” but they have a religious doctrine that excludes anyone who is not of the Norse and Celtic tribal blood. There are no tests for what qualifies as a religion in the US so long as they are not violating civil law like sacrificing cats since that falls under animal cruelty laws. And churches are private institutions. And I daresay the angry petitioners protesting this church are more against the paganism than the racism. Most white and black churches self-segregation anyway. The reason we have Southern Baptists is because they rejected the greater Baptist’s head quartered in the North anti-slavery and social gospel stance. Agreed, it is a racist "church", there are no tests for what qualifies as a religion in the US so long as they are not violating civil law. But if enforcing their 'Nordic descent only' policy conflicts with civil law... As a homeowner, I have the right to refuse entry to my home at my discretion. However, if a person wants entrance to my home, and threatens violence or shows a weapon, only then can I defend myself with equal violence. Anything less than that is cause to call the police, which I have done. One must be confronted with a lethal weapon, within 21 feet of distance, to use lethal defense. I can't just shoot somebody that is on my property, even though I have No Trespassing signs posted. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As an aside, I originally put up the No Trespassing signs, including one on a latched gate that closes off access to my front door, to keep the Jehovah's Witnesses off my front porch. And I was advised to do this by the county sheriff's department, so if they did cross that line, I had the right to call the cops. Now, they send their literature to me through the mail, and call my phone and leave messages suggesting I go to their website. I finally called one of them back, and ripped the guy a new one, I said that he was violating my right of religious freedom and, after forty years of them pestering me, I would call the police and file a complaint. I have no idea if the police could do anything, but so far, they have not contacted me again. Edit: One last amusing thing - I could actually be a member of this so-called 'church', given my Swedish, Danish, German and English ancestry, but have no more desire to worship Thor or Odin than Jesus, Krishna or Allah, or to be a white supremacist. I think it is high time for humans to evolve past that survival based instinct, that lizard-brain 'fear of other', if we want to survive as a species, and not just as tribes.
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