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Post by dazz on Dec 30, 2020 4:53:32 GMT
So? doesn't change how she happily murdered someone cowering beneath her, that when she realised it did nothing she wasn't aghast at what she had did but was more like but what why I killed him come on harrumph, or that she didn't twig that hey god of war why is he such a chicken shit? also why am I an amazon WAAAY stronger than the most powerful of the gods seeing as he killed all the other ones? Guess what if I kick the shit out of a guy I think groped my sister, turns out he's not the guy but that guys brother who broke his perv brothers hand for groping girls, I kicked the shit out of him for a good reason *in my mind atleast* but he aint the right guy, I feel guilty for doing it, Diana didn't she seemed more depressed that killing didn't solve all her problems, which is kind of funny to me. I have no clue what you’re trying to say with all that word salad, but the bottom line is that Diana thought Ludendorff was Ares, and she believed killing him would end the war, which is why she’s surprised when the war is still going on. No bottom line is Diana was so obsessed with violence she couldn't see the obvious before her, nor did she ever show any remorse for her actions, again you can do something thinking it's the right thing, then learn it was the wrong thing, and then feel bad for doing the wrong thing even if you did it with the best intentions. The entire movie up till that final fight shows Diana as battle obsessed and of a singular desire, to fight, yet when confronted with Ares she blames him for others actions, yet she never considers her own? then in the final act she goes from kill kill must kill, to love is the answer...? then she kills Ares anyway? To me it's just a funny aspect of the movie that feels like they were building to one thing the whole movie, then they forgot it and just went oh shit we need a finish to this, ah fuck it say something about love and tada that's how the movie ends, well that and Diana hearing Steve's last words in her memory despite not being able to hear them when he actually said them, it's a very sloppy ending to the movie imo.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jan 1, 2021 7:49:13 GMT
Patty Jenkins reply to a guy defending the promblematic nature of the body swap. The violation of The Handsome Man and the way it wasn't addressed. There's problems with his justification in story as everyone remembers the wishes they weren't completely eradicated. And her response seems a little off putting too.
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 10:09:20 GMT
Patty Jenkins reply to a guy defending the promblematic nature of the body swap. The violation of The Handsome Man and the way it wasn't addressed. There's problems with his justification in story as everyone remembers the wishes they weren't completely eradicated. And her response seems a little off putting too. I think Patty is just a fan of those type of stupid swap comedies in a middle aged grown woman that should know better type of way. I'm not at the moment noticing anything sinister in her motives so far anyway.
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 10:18:50 GMT
When did she ever kill anyone who was defenseless or cowering? The German soldiers in the No Man’s Land scene didn’t seem to cower before her. The dude she thought was Ares, once she had him on the ground he's literally cowering beneath her as she monologs about why she's going to kill him, even with a slight smile on her face maybe, then she does and she reacts like she's going ah finally that feels good, until she realises it didn't stop a damn thing, after which she doesn't really react iirc like oh no what have I done that she killed someone for nothing, but more like no you are all meant to be free why aren't you nice now. The fact Luddendorf was cowering beneath her, the god of fucking war of all things, and she doesn't twig that hey maybe this might not be a god after all, that kind of makes me chuckle, I mean if she can show sympathy and spare the doctor why not the soldier, they both got their jollies off of killing people, but Diana does kill Luddendorf and doesn't think twice on it, always made me go hmmm...admittedly both the Doc and Luddendorf deserved to die imo, they were psychotic mass murderers, but I am not a paragon of virtue, she is or is meant to be in this continuity. Luddendoff was killing villages full of people with poisonous chemicals Diana letting him live would've been the most stupidest thing in a comic book movie. It's not about being an angel him continuing to live would've resulted in millions of more deaths and that's a fact. That's the only part I like about this version of Wonder Woman. She said that her number 1 mission and her purpose was to rid the planet of war killing a Nazi general would pretty much fit into that pretty nicely.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 1, 2021 10:34:37 GMT
She has flown in the comics before. The problem with her flying is that she's just discovering this power in 1984, but she doesn't use it during the modern times at the end of the first Wonder Woman or in BvS or in Justice League. I was hoping the guy Steve was inhabiting would be relevant to the plot somehow. Like he's Lord's right hand lackey or was involved with Barbara or something, but overall he's just some guy the stone picked at random. You can make the argument that she does fly at the end of Wonder Woman when she jumps off the roof. It never shoes her descend. The problem is that she doesn't in JL.
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 10:38:31 GMT
I have no clue what you’re trying to say with all that word salad, but the bottom line is that Diana thought Ludendorff was Ares, and she believed killing him would end the war, which is why she’s surprised when the war is still going on. No bottom line is Diana was so obsessed with violence she couldn't see the obvious before her, nor did she ever show any remorse for her actions, again you can do something thinking it's the right thing, then learn it was the wrong thing, and then feel bad for doing the wrong thing even if you did it with the best intentions. The entire movie up till that final fight shows Diana as battle obsessed and of a singular desire, to fight, yet when confronted with Ares she blames him for others actions, yet she never considers her own? then in the final act she goes from kill kill must kill, to love is the answer...? then she kills Ares anyway? To me it's just a funny aspect of the movie that feels like they were building to one thing the whole movie, then they forgot it and just went oh shit we need a finish to this, ah fuck it say something about love and tada that's how the movie ends, well that and Diana hearing Steve's last words in her memory despite not being able to hear them when he actually said them, it's a very sloppy ending to the movie imo. The only thing I can agree with you on in the parts of your comments that I can decipher is that Wonder Woman was a dumb fuck for letting the doctor live when she killed her boss the general but apart from that you're on your own. She didn't kill the general based on whether he was a threat to her or not but because he was a threat to millions of people.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 1, 2021 10:47:40 GMT
Patty Jenkins reply to a guy defending the promblematic nature of the body swap. The violation of The Handsome Man and the way it wasn't addressed. There's problems with his justification in story as everyone remembers the wishes they weren't completely eradicated. And her response seems a little off putting too. He brings up Big, but that wasn't a body swap. The kid just grew up like SHAZAM!
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 1, 2021 10:52:51 GMT
No bottom line is Diana was so obsessed with violence she couldn't see the obvious before her, nor did she ever show any remorse for her actions, again you can do something thinking it's the right thing, then learn it was the wrong thing, and then feel bad for doing the wrong thing even if you did it with the best intentions. The entire movie up till that final fight shows Diana as battle obsessed and of a singular desire, to fight, yet when confronted with Ares she blames him for others actions, yet she never considers her own? then in the final act she goes from kill kill must kill, to love is the answer...? then she kills Ares anyway? To me it's just a funny aspect of the movie that feels like they were building to one thing the whole movie, then they forgot it and just went oh shit we need a finish to this, ah fuck it say something about love and tada that's how the movie ends, well that and Diana hearing Steve's last words in her memory despite not being able to hear them when he actually said them, it's a very sloppy ending to the movie imo. The only thing I can agree with you on in the parts of your comments that I can decipher is that Wonder Woman was a dumb fuck for letting the doctor live when she killed her boss the general but apart from that you're on your own. She didn't kill the general based on whether he was a threat to her or not but because he was a threat to millions of people. I think he means Ares Ares. Not the guy she thought was Ares.
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 10:55:33 GMT
The only thing I can agree with you on in the parts of your comments that I can decipher is that Wonder Woman was a dumb fuck for letting the doctor live when she killed her boss the general but apart from that you're on your own. She didn't kill the general based on whether he was a threat to her or not but because he was a threat to millions of people. I think he means Ares Ares. Not the guy she thought was Ares. Yes and Ares needed to die too since he was well the god of war.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 1, 2021 11:20:55 GMT
I think he means Ares Ares. Not the guy she thought was Ares. Yes and Ares needed to die too since he was well the god of war. Not really. They could have used him as an anti-war message.
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Post by claudius on Jan 1, 2021 13:33:34 GMT
She has flown in the comics before. Ahh I never read the comics. I watched Superfriends and the Lynda Carter show. Still seems lame. The invisible jet set her apart. Now she's basically just Superman with boobs. I think the Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman had the non-flying ability and the invisible Jet. Ironically, her younger foster sister Wonder Girl had the flying powers. When DC Comics rebooted her character in 1986 they gave her flying abilities and dropped the Jet. In the late 1990s, when Hippolyta became Wonder Woman she lacked flying and was given an Invisible jet.
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 13:58:04 GMT
Yes and Ares needed to die too since he was well the god of war. Not really. They could have used him as an anti-war message. What? He was going to destroy the world he needed to die. Don't be stupid.
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Post by dazz on Jan 1, 2021 17:15:02 GMT
The dude she thought was Ares, once she had him on the ground he's literally cowering beneath her as she monologs about why she's going to kill him, even with a slight smile on her face maybe, then she does and she reacts like she's going ah finally that feels good, until she realises it didn't stop a damn thing, after which she doesn't really react iirc like oh no what have I done that she killed someone for nothing, but more like no you are all meant to be free why aren't you nice now. The fact Luddendorf was cowering beneath her, the god of fucking war of all things, and she doesn't twig that hey maybe this might not be a god after all, that kind of makes me chuckle, I mean if she can show sympathy and spare the doctor why not the soldier, they both got their jollies off of killing people, but Diana does kill Luddendorf and doesn't think twice on it, always made me go hmmm...admittedly both the Doc and Luddendorf deserved to die imo, they were psychotic mass murderers, but I am not a paragon of virtue, she is or is meant to be in this continuity. Luddendoff was killing villages full of people with poisonous chemicals Diana letting him live would've been the most stupidest thing in a comic book movie. It's not about being an angel him continuing to live would've resulted in millions of more deaths and that's a fact. That's the only part I like about this version of Wonder Woman. She said that her number 1 mission and her purpose was to rid the planet of war killing a Nazi general would pretty much fit into that pretty nicely. A: Not a Nazi, WW1 not WW2, Nazi's are WW2. B: She let Poison live and she is every bit the psychotic mass murderer Luddendorf is. C: I don't dislike that she killed him, just that her doing so seemed more like it would play into a different ending they scrapped and tacked on the silly love bullshit to end on instead.
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 17:28:15 GMT
Luddendoff was killing villages full of people with poisonous chemicals Diana letting him live would've been the most stupidest thing in a comic book movie. It's not about being an angel him continuing to live would've resulted in millions of more deaths and that's a fact. That's the only part I like about this version of Wonder Woman. She said that her number 1 mission and her purpose was to rid the planet of war killing a Nazi general would pretty much fit into that pretty nicely. A: Not a Nazi, WW1 not WW2, Nazi's are WW2. B: She let Poison live and she is every bit the psychotic mass murderer Luddendorf is. C: I don't dislike that she killed him, just that her doing so seemed more like it would play into a different ending they scrapped and tacked on the silly love bullshit to end on instead. I agree with you that Wonder Woman was a dumb fuck for letting Poison live instead but from the very beginning of the movie she left her home to rid Earth of wars for me that meant killing those that cause wars in the first place. Nazi or not he was a mass murdering psychopath.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jan 1, 2021 17:32:53 GMT
Her letting Doctor Poison live is supposed to signify her rejection of Ares’ ideology. Also, as we already established, she killed Ludendorff because she thought he was Ares, and she believed killing him would end the war.
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Post by dazz on Jan 1, 2021 17:47:02 GMT
No bottom line is Diana was so obsessed with violence she couldn't see the obvious before her, nor did she ever show any remorse for her actions, again you can do something thinking it's the right thing, then learn it was the wrong thing, and then feel bad for doing the wrong thing even if you did it with the best intentions. The entire movie up till that final fight shows Diana as battle obsessed and of a singular desire, to fight, yet when confronted with Ares she blames him for others actions, yet she never considers her own? then in the final act she goes from kill kill must kill, to love is the answer...? then she kills Ares anyway? To me it's just a funny aspect of the movie that feels like they were building to one thing the whole movie, then they forgot it and just went oh shit we need a finish to this, ah fuck it say something about love and tada that's how the movie ends, well that and Diana hearing Steve's last words in her memory despite not being able to hear them when he actually said them, it's a very sloppy ending to the movie imo. The only thing I can agree with you on in the parts of your comments that I can decipher is that Wonder Woman was a dumb fuck for letting the doctor live when she killed her boss the general but apart from that you're on your own. She didn't kill the general based on whether he was a threat to her or not but because he was a threat to millions of people. What I am saying is how the movie played till that final act to me was that in the end Diana would recognise her own distorted view of how things were, come to terms with them and choose to be better, thereby defeating Ares, he's the god of war how do you out fight the god of war, the act of fighting him empowers the fucking guy. Diana throughout the film is shown kind of obsessed with battle, yes all Amazons fight, but Diana was like a moth to the flame in that regard, even when her mother forbid it Diana sought it out, when the idea to go and kill Ares pops in her head she leaps at it, she abandons her people and life to go on a murder quest against someone who has never done anything to her, through out the movie any time Diana has a choice between confronting or avoiding conflict she confronts, she gets off on the violence, the second Steve doesn't support her violent tendencies she turns on him, she actually doesn't even recognise her own part in the tragedy that happened, Luddendorf gasses the town because Diana freed it, obviously Luddendorf is a psycho and would find another excuse to kill someone with his gas, but still Diana put the target on the villages back, which I thought would be recognised in the final act, but isn't. To me it felt like the movie would build to Diana kills Luddendorf then nothing happens, Ares appears and tells her he didn't cause this, they did, he doesn't incite war of violence, people do it on their own, maybe says how humans are like the gods in that way, which makes sense, they were modeled after them, but the Amazons were not hence their more peaceful ways, the train for battle but they do not seek it out, unlike Diana because she is not like other Amazons, this is where/how her heritage is revealed. In the end I feel like blaming Ares for everything was a cop out, more interesting would have been for the war to be humanities fault, the war was coming to an end anyway no need for them to have everyone suddenly not being into war just because Ares is dead, make it Ares doesn't create conflict he is just empowered by it, humanities lust for war and conflict is what gives Ares life, not the other way around. Now with Jenkins saying that she wanted a smaller ending and the big climatic fight was the studios idea this could be why, maybe they did intend for the final act to have Diana come to understand her own as well as humanities underlying desire to battle is not something to be blamed on Ares but on themselves, after all if Ares is the cause of the war then why the fuck is there WW2 AFTER Ares is dead? shouldn't humanity be peaceful now? The point about the General is that she thinks he is Ares, but she doesn't wonder how or why Ares the god of fucking war is a pussy, or that she a mere lone Amazon is a threat to him, sure the sword she thinks can kill him, but why does she not think hey this is odd how can I overpower Ares? he killed all the other gods but I a mere Amazon am stronger than him? which goes to my thinking Ares would have taunted her with this, saying how she lost reason in battle, so focused on the kill she couldn't see the obvious before her. Like I said I am nto against her killing Luddendorf, I just think the ending was switched up and the intent that was running throughout the film got cut off before paying off in the end and replaced by a cheap sugary sweet ending by comparison.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 1, 2021 18:01:53 GMT
Not really. They could have used him as an anti-war message. What? He was going to destroy the world he needed to die. Don't be stupid. And that's why you defeat him. Make up something that weakens him for decades. You have a movie about a warrior princess, that wants to save man's world by teaching them they are wrong, but then do the same thing as men?
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 18:09:01 GMT
The only thing I can agree with you on in the parts of your comments that I can decipher is that Wonder Woman was a dumb fuck for letting the doctor live when she killed her boss the general but apart from that you're on your own. She didn't kill the general based on whether he was a threat to her or not but because he was a threat to millions of people. What I am saying is how the movie played till that final act to me was that in the end Diana would recognise her own distorted view of how things were, come to terms with them and choose to be better, thereby defeating Ares, he's the god of war how do you out fight the god of war, the act of fighting him empowers the fucking guy. Diana throughout the film is shown kind of obsessed with battle, yes all Amazons fight, but Diana was like a moth to the flame in that regard, even when her mother forbid it Diana sought it out, when the idea to go and kill Ares pops in her head she leaps at it, she abandons her people and life to go on a murder quest against someone who has never done anything to her, through out the movie any time Diana has a choice between confronting or avoiding conflict she confronts, she gets off on the violence, the second Steve doesn't support her violent tendencies she turns on him, she actually doesn't even recognise her own part in the tragedy that happened, Luddendorf gasses the town because Diana freed it, obviously Luddendorf is a psycho and would find another excuse to kill someone with his gas, but still Diana put the target on the villages back, which I thought would be recognised in the final act, but isn't. To me it felt like the movie would build to Diana kills Luddendorf then nothing happens, Ares appears and tells her he didn't cause this, they did, he doesn't incite war of violence, people do it on their own, maybe says how humans are like the gods in that way, which makes sense, they were modeled after them, but the Amazons were not hence their more peaceful ways, the train for battle but they do not seek it out, unlike Diana because she is not like other Amazons, this is where/how her heritage is revealed. In the end I feel like blaming Ares for everything was a cop out, more interesting would have been for the war to be humanities fault, the war was coming to an end anyway no need for them to have everyone suddenly not being into war just because Ares is dead, make it Ares doesn't create conflict he is just empowered by it, humanities lust for war and conflict is what gives Ares life, not the other way around. Now with Jenkins saying that she wanted a smaller ending and the big climatic fight was the studios idea this could be why, maybe they did intend for the final act to have Diana come to understand her own as well as humanities underlying desire to battle is not something to be blamed on Ares but on themselves, after all if Ares is the cause of the war then why the fuck is there WW2 AFTER Ares is dead? shouldn't humanity be peaceful now? The point about the General is that she thinks he is Ares, but she doesn't wonder how or why Ares the god of fucking war is a pussy, or that she a mere lone Amazon is a threat to him, sure the sword she thinks can kill him, but why does she not think hey this is odd how can I overpower Ares? he killed all the other gods but I a mere Amazon am stronger than him? which goes to my thinking Ares would have taunted her with this, saying how she lost reason in battle, so focused on the kill she couldn't see the obvious before her. Like I said I am nto against her killing Luddendorf, I just think the ending was switched up and the intent that was running throughout the film got cut off before paying off in the end and replaced by a cheap sugary sweet ending by comparison. Wonder Woman was naïve and at times impatient but her goal was always to rid the world of wars or to end the wars of all wars in any way I think you've got an idea of Wonder Woman that maybe the director put into your head and you decided to run with it. Even in the comics she snapped someone's head off.
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Ransom
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Post by Ransom on Jan 1, 2021 18:11:46 GMT
What? He was going to destroy the world he needed to die. Don't be stupid. And that's why you defeat him. Make up something that weakens him for decades. You have a movie about a warrior princess, that wants to save man's world by teaching them they are wrong, but then do the same thing as men? How do you weaken a god? Most of the time Ares was manipulating wars even in his weakened human form anyway. Why am I getting the rather annoying feeling that I'm the only one on this thread that actually watched the movie and I don't even like it.
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Post by dazz on Jan 1, 2021 21:38:42 GMT
What I am saying is how the movie played till that final act to me was that in the end Diana would recognise her own distorted view of how things were, come to terms with them and choose to be better, thereby defeating Ares, he's the god of war how do you out fight the god of war, the act of fighting him empowers the fucking guy. Diana throughout the film is shown kind of obsessed with battle, yes all Amazons fight, but Diana was like a moth to the flame in that regard, even when her mother forbid it Diana sought it out, when the idea to go and kill Ares pops in her head she leaps at it, she abandons her people and life to go on a murder quest against someone who has never done anything to her, through out the movie any time Diana has a choice between confronting or avoiding conflict she confronts, she gets off on the violence, the second Steve doesn't support her violent tendencies she turns on him, she actually doesn't even recognise her own part in the tragedy that happened, Luddendorf gasses the town because Diana freed it, obviously Luddendorf is a psycho and would find another excuse to kill someone with his gas, but still Diana put the target on the villages back, which I thought would be recognised in the final act, but isn't. To me it felt like the movie would build to Diana kills Luddendorf then nothing happens, Ares appears and tells her he didn't cause this, they did, he doesn't incite war of violence, people do it on their own, maybe says how humans are like the gods in that way, which makes sense, they were modeled after them, but the Amazons were not hence their more peaceful ways, the train for battle but they do not seek it out, unlike Diana because she is not like other Amazons, this is where/how her heritage is revealed. In the end I feel like blaming Ares for everything was a cop out, more interesting would have been for the war to be humanities fault, the war was coming to an end anyway no need for them to have everyone suddenly not being into war just because Ares is dead, make it Ares doesn't create conflict he is just empowered by it, humanities lust for war and conflict is what gives Ares life, not the other way around. Now with Jenkins saying that she wanted a smaller ending and the big climatic fight was the studios idea this could be why, maybe they did intend for the final act to have Diana come to understand her own as well as humanities underlying desire to battle is not something to be blamed on Ares but on themselves, after all if Ares is the cause of the war then why the fuck is there WW2 AFTER Ares is dead? shouldn't humanity be peaceful now? The point about the General is that she thinks he is Ares, but she doesn't wonder how or why Ares the god of fucking war is a pussy, or that she a mere lone Amazon is a threat to him, sure the sword she thinks can kill him, but why does she not think hey this is odd how can I overpower Ares? he killed all the other gods but I a mere Amazon am stronger than him? which goes to my thinking Ares would have taunted her with this, saying how she lost reason in battle, so focused on the kill she couldn't see the obvious before her. Like I said I am nto against her killing Luddendorf, I just think the ending was switched up and the intent that was running throughout the film got cut off before paying off in the end and replaced by a cheap sugary sweet ending by comparison. Wonder Woman was naïve and at times impatient but her goal was always to rid the world of wars or to end the wars of all wars in any way I think you've got an idea of Wonder Woman that maybe the director put into your head and you decided to run with it. Even in the comics she snapped someone's head off. God you are such a thick twat, YES thats the fucking point I am saying I felt like the movie was moving in one direction that nonsensically pivoted away in the final fucking. I have no problem with WW killing, she is a warrior thats what they fucking do, but in this movie THIS story they make out war and violence is a pitfall of humankind, but Diana a fucking Amazon is just as guilty of those flaws as any human, which is why I felt like them ovie was leading up to the reveal to Diana after she killed Luddendorf that Ares did not cause the war, he merely enjoyed it and prodded a few pieces here and there, but ultimately humanity chose to go to war, and all that did was make Ares stronger, but they chickened out on that in favour of a shitty CGI battle. Diana's goal yes was to end the war or was it to kill Ares? the war was ending anyway but Diana had to push for her mission to kill Ares, despite him being around and powerful peace was breaking out, Diana's mission is not to ensure that the peace talks succeed her focus is killing the god of war to stop a war she is already being told is on the brink of coming to an end...do you follow me on this? peace is nearing so why does Diana feel Ares must be killed? if he can prevent peace why is he allowing it to get so close? Diana doesn't think anything through she's got a one tracked mind kill Ares because she assumes killing him will end all war, which storywise is fucking stupid given they set the movie in WW1 for fuck sake, it's called WW1 for a reason, so if Ares is the cause of the war then why the fuck does WW2 happen? This is where had they used the narrative of Ares did not start the war, nor is he keeping it going, all he does is feed off of the conflict humans cause all on their own, and yes he meddles but only for his own amusement, he can influence the location of an attack but he cannot prompt one, this way in the context of the narrative of the film and the entire DCEU it explains why killing Ares does not make the earth a world of peace and tranquillity, can you understand this at all? is it getting through yet? THIS is my issue with the movie, not Diana killing, I just point that out because the movie has her killing and enjoy doing so all through out until the final 5 minutes when she just randomly goes love is the answer and then pretends like she hadn't been chasing blood and violence for the entire movie, had they made her WW like in some of the comics or animated movies where she actually enjoys and thrives on combat thats cool, so long as the narrative fits, it didn't here because of how they ended the movie, it's a sudden shift in viewpoint, not a gradual one, Diana literally goes from stabbing a cowering Luddendorf with enough force to cause a shockwave whilst smiling, to being like no violence is not the solution in a snap of the fingers, had it been a gradual realisation thats fine, but it's not it's literally violence violence violence violence violence violence, kill Luddendorf, violence violence no more violence, kill Ares, violence violence violence, oh and yeah war keeps happening despite Ares' death, big shock.
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