OT 4 More Things Atheists Should Stop Saying

1) GMS is a nice guy, but as far as "internet/YouTube" atheists go, he's pretty far down on my list. Cosmic Skeptic, Paulogia, Shannon Q, and even Matt Dillahunty offer far more substantial content.

2) I somewhat agree with his arguments, but I think the problem is that it's easy to attack one-sentence, pithy phrases. Most of those statements could be expanded to be much harder to debunk arguments. EG, the "you can't use reason to get someone out of a place they didn't use reason to get into" may be wrong on the surface, but certainly there are irrational modes of thought that people use to get into beliefs that make it very difficult for reason to get them out of. There are entire fields of study of cognitive biases around this.

3) Religion is particularly insidious because not only does it rely on indoctrination, but convincing people that it's righteous to believe no matter what even when reason points out these errors (what Daniel Dennett termed "belief in belief"). It basically creates a defense mechanism against rational thought. Though it's possible for reason to bring someone out of the belief, it usually does so with them kicking and screaming the entire way (most deconversion stories aren't pleasant experiences) and only after the person decided to prioritize truth and reason. Also, he's fundamentally wrong about believers ever being "reasonable." Nobody comes to believe in God/religion through reason, but through various irrational cognitive biases we all have, which include believing without question what our parents/society teaches us and various forms of anthropomorphic projection. I do agree with him that atheists aren't necessarily any more rational either, though.

4) Anyway, that was just one example of how a pretty strong argument can actually be made out of one of those "pithy statements" that's much harder to debunk than what GMS is implying.

2) Nobody THINKS they're irrational, but everyone is. I'd highly recommend reading Daniel Kahneman on this subject as he won a Nobel Prize for his work studying cognitive biases. Coming up with hypotheses to "explain the unexplained" is great; the problem is when people decide to believe them without any evidence and build entire philosophies/religions around them. 

3) I'm pretty sure most religions (even if we're limiting it to the various holy books) promote believing in them unquestionably. That's why "faith" is seen as a virtue, despite the fact that it's believing in something without (sufficient) evidence. 

2) Because they're probably wrong. Even science is usually wrong. Most hypotheses are going to be wrong in general. It's a numbers thing: reality is only one way, but there's an infinite amount of ways we can imagine it being, so it's foolish to start developing philosophies/religions when we don't even have strong evidence that we're right. Better to proportion our confidence levels to the evidence and update that based on new evidence and never become attached to beliefs at all. 

3) Sure, and as long as believers keep it private and don't let it interfere in the lives of others I don't have much of an issue with it. Problem is that this rarely happens. In the other thread you lament spending lots of money on mental healthcare, but how much money do you think is spent on religions? And if, indeed, there is no God, that's money that's almost completely wasted (and I only say "mostly" because some religious organizations can do good in their communities with the money). 

Actually appreciate how he approaches the subject matter, and while I am a theist, I know people like this guy are the kind who build interfaith communities. That's not an easy feat, but it is entirely worthwhile. 

I have seen atheist make these points on this board.

1. 1:23 "We're all born Atheists until someone starts lying to us."

2. 3:56 "Reading the Bible will make you an Atheist."

3. 6:13 "You can't be reasoned out of something you weren't reasoned into."

4. 9:30 "Atheism and Atheists are honest/rational/reasonable."

Everything has a good and bad side.

Yes, religions have started wars, taught hate and bigotry, and outlawed free thought. That's bad. But, the good they do, and have done, far outweighs the bad.

Governments have done bad things in the past. Should we get rid of all government?

People have done bad things in the past. Should we get rid of all people?

No, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. The trick is to outlaw the bad things. Not the good entities that have done bad things.

There are free thinking and open minded Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus. Most believers aren't mentally imprisoned by their religion.

I both believe in religion and science. I know both may be wrong.

The trick is education, open mindedness and humility. Not outlawing religion.

Because you never had kids and never seen them invent imaginary friends who are watching over them.

trust me, kids could easily invent a religion if left to their own devices.

Actually appreciate how he approaches the subject matter, and while I am a theist, I know people like this guy are the kind who build interfaith communities. That's not an easy feat, but it is entirely worthwhile. 

I have seen atheist make these points on this board.

1. 1:23 "We're all born Atheists until someone starts lying to us."

2. 3:56 "Reading the Bible will make you an Atheist."

3. 6:13 "You can't be reasoned out of something you weren't reasoned into."

4. 9:30 "Atheism and Atheists are is honest/rational/reasonable."

I NEVER said I don't believe in science.

I think your view of religion is biased inaccurately towards the negative.
Most believers don't believe in forcing their beliefs on others.
Most believers accept and respect other beliefs.
Most believers separate religion from politics.
Most believers separate faith from knowledge.

Just like everything else, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And the bad gets more attention than the good. Most believers don't riot, scream, yell, protest, or use violence. They just quitely go about their lives doing good, and not doing bad. Most believers don't preach.

Don't judge the good by the bad. And don't underestimate the number of good religious people out there.

1) Sorry, I read "I both believe in religion and science." as "I DON'T believe in religion and science." My mistake. 

2) As for the rest of your post, I think you're basically just ignoring my points in favor of making a lot of claims, many of which are false. I think I have an extremely balanced view of religion and have, in fact, defended it from attacks from different angles in the past. I'm perfectly fine with religion in the Blakean/Jungian/Petersonian sense of seeing it all as metaphor/allegory and appreciating it as artistic philosophy (or philosophical art); but, like I said, in that sense religion becomes little different from other philosophical art and loses a lot of its power over people. 

3) I think you're dead wrong that most believers don't force their beliefs onto others. Believers vote, and most believers vote according to what their religion teaches. That's them trying to force their beliefs onto others. At best I'd say most believers tolerate other religious beliefs, but even that is a rarely recent thing brought on by secular, national melding pots. It's not like it was always true historically. Even if believers separate faith from knowledge, they still value faith, which is fundamentally irrational and shouldn't be valued. 

Plus, fundamental evangelicals are a pretty huge sqeaking wheel in the US in case you haven't noticed. They aren't some tiny minority of people.