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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 13:34:57 GMT
2) We're talking about different kinds of compartmentalization, and the kind that goes on mentally is very different from the kind that happens in science. Your thoughts and emotions aren't intangible: you experience them directly and they can be studied via neuroscience and manipulated with medicine. Others can't know what you're experiencing directly, but if I hooked your brain up to an imaging machine a capable neuroscientist would be able to reliably predict what emotions you were experiencing/expressing merely by seeing what parts of your brain lit up, because brain states are highly correlated with emotional states (almost certainly because emotions are merely our first-hand experience of such states). Also, saying "I don't know" is not a sign of stupidity but honesty. It's far more stupid to not know but believe answers you've made up but have no evidence for. 3) Of course they had a reason to not do those things: to maintain a functioning society. The only motivation they need is the knowledge that if they do such things they'll be punished by other members of their society, and societies have always punished such behaviors. George Carlin was still right about the 10 Commandments. Many of them are BS and many could be consolidated into a more general command making most of them superfluous. 2) I disagree. Mental compartmentaization is necessary to focus on different concepts that can be distracting from one another --- scientific proof and spiritual belief. Just like in science. So, I can't believe you have thoughts and emotions unless I perform neurological tests? Don't be ridiculous. And at the moment there are no scientific tests to prove, or disprove the existence of God. Spiritual faith is a real thing. Just because you don't have any, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I understand you think it's stupid and illogical. But many people thought the same thing about the Earth being round, the Earth not being the center of the Universe, science being blasphemy, man ever flying or landing on the moon, etc. We all know what eventually happened to those opinions. I never said "I don't know" was a sign of stupidity. I said "I don't know so I'll just be stupid" is a sign of stupidity. Or to further the concept "I don't know if "other planets" exist. So that is proof they don't. And anybody who believes otherwise is stupid, dumb and illogical". Substitute "God" for "other planets" and you'll see what I mean. 3) Stupid, immature, and selfish people never do things for a functioning society. Smart people knew that would never work. But fear of God does. I disagree with George Carlin. 2) When I'm talking about compartmentalization I'm not talking about focusing on different ideas, I'm talking about holding holding different standards of criticism for multiple ideas, usually fueled by the bias (Wishful Thinking) to believe some but not others. Compartmentalization is what leads to cognitive dissonance because you believe fundamentally incompatible things to maintain both beliefs. Here's the Wiki on the subject: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_(psychology)Well, no, we infer thoughts and emotions due to inferences from our own experience and stuff like the functioning of mirror neurons: the major point was that none of this makes either intangible. If a scientist can poke your brain and cause you to experience an emotion or give you a pill that stops you feeling another emotion then thoughts/emotions aren't intangible. They're real, physical things. I agree there's no scientific test to disprove God. Again, that's not the issue: why should we assume God (or any imagined being) exists without evidence? Of course spiritual faith is a real thing; the issue is whether or not what it has faith in is real/correct. A lot of past beliefs were rational at the time. Rationality is not about being right, it's about using the evidence to come to the most likely conclusion. As evidence changes so should our beliefs. If there's no evidence for something we shouldn't believe in that something. This is all epistemology 101. I'm not sure then what you mean by "I don't know so I'll just be stupid," and I don't think your example clarified it. If people believed in other planets without evidence, I'd call them stupid too. But we have evidence; we see them through telescopes. We're also not talking about proof but evidence. The problem is that people believe without any evidence. Much of that boils down to people not even knowing what evidence is because humans are innately irrational to begin with. That's all humans, by the way, not just religious believers. 3) Stupid, immature, and selfish people go to work every day, which helps society. They do so because they also have to function in society, which requires them to work together with others in that society. Doing so also helps themselves, which is why they do it. I'm also not convinced fear of God makes them do anything more for society than they otherwise would. What do you disagree with Carlin about? Did you even watch/listen to the video?
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Post by SciFive on Jan 3, 2021 13:41:34 GMT
The problem is that people believe without any evidence.
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Believers see what they regard as evidence, though.
It’s none of your business if it’s meaningless to you.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 13:44:56 GMT
The problem is that people believe without any evidence. —————— Believers see what they regard as evidence, though.It’s none of your business if it’s meaningless to you. It's not evidence though. If I see what I regard as a possum but it turns out to be a raccoon, did I see a possum?
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Post by phludowin on Jan 3, 2021 14:13:57 GMT
And this is why I prefer reading books to listening to lectures.
EDIT: I am talking about the video in the OP.
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Post by SciFive on Jan 3, 2021 14:51:09 GMT
The problem is that people believe without any evidence. —————— Believers see what they regard as evidence, though.It’s none of your business if it’s meaningless to you. It's not evidence though. If I see what I regard as a possum but it turns out to be a raccoon, did I see a possum? It’s none of your business. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 15:29:35 GMT
It's not evidence though. If I see what I regard as a possum but it turns out to be a raccoon, did I see a possum? It’s none of your business. Perhaps you didn't see the sign: this is a forum for discussing religion, faith, and spirituality. And once people stop letting their religion influence how they vote, then maybe it won't be my business.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 3, 2021 15:36:23 GMT
All that said, there's certainly been some outright atheist regimes--like Stalin's Stalin was an atheist but his regime had a mixed attitude towards religion. During WW2, he tried to revive the Orthodox Church as a way to boost morale and national feeling. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 15:37:19 GMT
All that said, there's certainly been some outright atheist regimes--like Stalin's Stalin was an atheist but his regime had a mixed attitude towards religion. During WW2, he tried to revive the Orthodox Church as a way to boost morale and national feeling. Thanks for the info. Not a big history buff so always nice to learn tidbits like this.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 3, 2021 15:43:13 GMT
Stalin was an atheist but his regime had a mixed attitude towards religion. During WW2, he tried to revive the Orthodox Church as a way to boost morale and national feeling. Thanks for the info. Not a big history buff so always nice to learn tidbits like this. No worries. Actually the anti-religious nature of the USSR, while definitely true to some extent, was often exaggerated by Western propaganda: "Godless commies" and all that. |
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Post by SciFive on Jan 3, 2021 15:44:28 GMT
It’s none of your business. Perhaps you didn't see the sign: this is a forum for discussing religion, faith, and spirituality. And once people stop letting their religion influence how they vote, then maybe it won't be my business. It’s none of your business why people vote as they do. |
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 3, 2021 16:05:55 GMT
Perhaps you didn't see the sign: this is a forum for discussing religion, faith, and spirituality. And once people stop letting their religion influence how they vote, then maybe it won't be my business. It’s none of your business why people vote as they do. Since their votes may affect his life and those he cares about, surely it is? |
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Post by SciFive on Jan 3, 2021 16:07:31 GMT
It’s none of your business why people vote as they do. Since their votes may affect his life and those he cares about, surely it is? No, it’s not. Votes are secret for a reason. |
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 3, 2021 16:14:43 GMT
Since their votes may affect his life and those he cares about, surely it is? No, it’s not. Votes are secret for a reason. I don't think he was saying he wanted an open ballot. Just that if there is something that influences people to vote in a way he doesn't agree with, he would prefer if thst influence wasn't there. |
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Post by SciFive on Jan 3, 2021 16:17:04 GMT
No, it’s not. Votes are secret for a reason. I don't think he was saying he wanted an open ballot. Just that if there is something that influences people to vote in a way he doesn't agree with, he would prefer if thst influence wasn't there. Well, I’m sure people feel that way about him, too. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 16:50:09 GMT
Perhaps you didn't see the sign: this is a forum for discussing religion, faith, and spirituality. And once people stop letting their religion influence how they vote, then maybe it won't be my business. It’s none of your business why people vote as they do. As long as they're voting is affecting me and others then it's absolutely my business.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 16:50:54 GMT
I don't think he was saying he wanted an open ballot. Just that if there is something that influences people to vote in a way he doesn't agree with, he would prefer if thst influence wasn't there. Well, I’m sure people feel that way about him, too. Yes, but I'm not the one saying how and why I vote isn't others' business, now am I?
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Post by Isapop on Jan 3, 2021 17:02:50 GMT
Since their votes may affect his life and those he cares about, surely it is? No, it’s not. Votes are secret for a reason. That reason is to protect a voter's anonymity. Do you think you sacrifice your anonymity on this board?
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Post by SciFive on Jan 3, 2021 17:28:44 GMT
Well, I’m sure people feel that way about him, too. Yes, but I'm not the one saying how and why I vote isn't others' business, now am I? So what you think when you vote is other people’s business. They have the right to poke into your thoughts in the same way you poke into theirs. |
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klandersen
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Post by klandersen on Jan 3, 2021 17:31:16 GMT
I didn't watch the video yet. I have only heard the 2nd statement about how reading the Bible will make you an atheist.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 18:13:20 GMT
Yes, but I'm not the one saying how and why I vote isn't others' business, now am I? So what you think when you vote is other people’s business. They have the right to poke into your thoughts in the same way you poke into theirs. That first sentence is not coherent English. They certainly have the right to poke into my thoughts when I come on a message board and start making various claims. It's called "discussion." Maybe you've heard of it.
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