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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 2, 2021 20:56:16 GMT
I'll often hear people say "you need to think for yourself!" but that does make me wonder, what does that even really mean? I would make the argument no thoughts and ideas just "pop" out of a vaccum and they're simply derived from other thoughts and ideas, so saying "you should think for yourself" seems like a rather meaningless statement. I mean try naming one innovative thinker, writer, artist, inventor, etc and I could probably list of a bunch of people that influenced them.
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 2, 2021 21:09:58 GMT
You are muddying the water with the word "truly."
People are able to think for themselves for all intent and purposes. Some will be more guided by social norms and trends than others. Much of this has to do with lack of awareness.
Is everyone a genius who is going to come up with some original idea? No. That isn't the same thing as "thinking for yourself." Thinking for yourself commonly means that you form your own opinions about what is true and what isn't and not let society dictate what you are going to think.
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Post by MCDemuth on Jan 2, 2021 21:10:43 GMT
I believe that some people are "Sheeple". They need to follow others, and so, they do not think for themselves...
And then there are other people. Insane Wackos. These people do think for themselves, but they come up with crazy ideas that should be better off, unspoken. But unfortunately, they are masters of persuasion, and are able to convince the masses that their ideas are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that everyone should support those ideas... To make matters worse, the news media, Social Media, and various internet websites spread these same ideas around the world to many other followers.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jan 2, 2021 21:11:02 GMT
Yes
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 2, 2021 21:13:48 GMT
I believe that some people are "Sheeple". They need to follow others, and so, they do not think for themselves... And then there are other people. Insane Wackos. These people do think for themselves, but they come up with crazy ideas that should be better off, unspoken. But unfortunately, they are masters of persuasion, and are able to convince the masses that their ideas are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that everyone should support those ideas... To make matters worse, the news media, Social Media, and various internet websites spread these same ideas around the world to many other followers. Wow, so no gray area for you? Just sheeple and pyschos. That begs the question...
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gw
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Post by gw on Jan 2, 2021 22:44:34 GMT
While I think that this is more about having 'original ideas' than thinking for your self, there are elements of both old and new. Every person who can think clearly bases their ideas off of what they have experienced and what they knew or think they knew. If you want to do something that hasn't been done before, create some sort of map of what the possibilities are and what has been done. Or take an idea, like the behavior of some sort of material and see what you can do with it. Every new idea builds on prior knowledge just by being part of our reality but some are based on more immediate knowledge from direct experience that doesn't come from anybody else.
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Post by drystyx on Jan 2, 2021 23:26:40 GMT
Yes, if you say so.
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Post by Catman on Jan 3, 2021 12:36:36 GMT
Cats.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 3, 2021 14:35:10 GMT
I think thoughts and ideas pop up out if a vacuum all the time.
Mits just that pervading thought, societal acceptance, and logical dismissal overwhelm them unless they are thoughts that conform to normal patterns.
So it is relatively easy to make up a new theory or create a new belief, but it is far more difficult for those things to be accepted as a respected thought or even something the creator of it can expand and build confidence in.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 3, 2021 15:32:16 GMT
I think it's more just a colloquial way of saying "don't automatically believe everything you hear/read from other people." If you learn critical thinking, then "thinking for yourself" just means applying that to every idea or argument you come across. I don't think it means (or was ever meant to mean) "don't be influenced by the thoughts of anyone else." That wouldn't be possible unless you were raised by wolves or something.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jan 7, 2021 21:46:42 GMT
Some do, some don't.
Ironically, many of the people decrying others for being "sheeple" are people that have seen a few conspiracy theory videos and unquestioningly accepted them as being true and then berate others for not doing the same... (and they get really irate when you challenge or question their very flimsy arguments too?)
But a lot of people aren't interested in challenging the world around them. They aren't interested/they are struggling enough with just trying to get through day as it is without worrying about "the bigger picture"/they lack the intellect or imagination. And some are so indoctrinated in their beliefs from birth that challenging them would require a colossal paradigm shift which would be hard to start for all but the intellectually hardiest of people.
Finally - it's worth remembering that many people's kneejerk reaction is to want to avoid being wrong. So anything that is going to put them in a position that might force them to admit they were wrong will challenge them (consciously or subconsciously) and they will avoid that situation. And they will jump through tremendous mental gymnastics to continue to justify whatever their original beliefs were rather than risk opening the can of worms that leads to admitting that they were wrong and having to deal with that...
Look around you. You know people that fall into these categories. You may even see one in the mirror.
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Post by Catman on Jan 7, 2021 22:36:21 GMT
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Post by permutojoe on Jan 8, 2021 11:38:29 GMT
I think it's more just a colloquial way of saying "don't automatically believe everything you hear/read from other people." If you learn critical thinking, then "thinking for yourself" just means applying that to every idea or argument you come across. I don't think it means (or was ever meant to mean) "don't be influenced by the thoughts of anyone else." That would be possible unless you were raised by wolves or something. If you were raised by wolves I doubt you'd spend too much time thinking, although you might bark at the moon from time to time.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 8, 2021 12:43:28 GMT
I think thoughts and ideas pop up out if a vacuum all the time. Mits just that pervading thought, societal acceptance, and logical dismissal overwhelm them unless they are thoughts that conform to normal patterns. So it is relatively easy to make up a new theory or create a new belief, but it is far more difficult for those things to be accepted as a respected thought or even something the creator of it can expand and build confidence in. “Think for yourself” means use critical thinking skills. That is something not a lot people do anymore. I think they do when it matters. It's just that a lot of things are settled on previous critical thought (Or inspiration which is just as important imo) so in those cases, it's not necessary to think for ourselves.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 8, 2021 14:55:17 GMT
I think it's more just a colloquial way of saying "don't automatically believe everything you hear/read from other people." If you learn critical thinking, then "thinking for yourself" just means applying that to every idea or argument you come across. I don't think it means (or was ever meant to mean) "don't be influenced by the thoughts of anyone else." That would be possible unless you were raised by wolves or something. If you were raised by wolves I doubt you'd spend too much time thinking, although you might bark at the moon from time to time. I think most all animals think, I just don't think they think like we think... I think.
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Post by mystery on Jan 8, 2021 15:49:19 GMT
Everyone has influences that help to shape their beliefs and worldviews, but critical thinking begins when we go beyond that, to challenge what we have been taught, to question all assumptions and come to our own conclusions. The people who desire to label themselves and want to go along with the crowd usually have minimal capacity for critical thinking. That's why I'm personally not fond of labels. It's better to see ourselves as individuals and forge our own unique paths, rather than just being a follower.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 8, 2021 18:58:46 GMT
Everyone has influences that help to shape their beliefs and worldviews, but critical thinking begins when we go beyond that, to challenge what we have been taught, to question all assumptions and come to our own conclusions. The people who desire to label themselves and want to go along with the crowd usually have minimal capacity for critical thinking. That's why I'm personally not fond of labels. It's better to see ourselves as individuals and forge our own unique paths, rather than just being a follower. I agree to an extent but then it can also be useful to band together with those whose views are broadly similar to your own. |
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Post by mystery on Jan 8, 2021 23:06:58 GMT
Everyone has influences that help to shape their beliefs and worldviews, but critical thinking begins when we go beyond that, to challenge what we have been taught, to question all assumptions and come to our own conclusions. The people who desire to label themselves and want to go along with the crowd usually have minimal capacity for critical thinking. That's why I'm personally not fond of labels. It's better to see ourselves as individuals and forge our own unique paths, rather than just being a follower. I agree to an extent but then it can also be useful to band together with those whose views are broadly similar to your own. That's great if you have that, although I don't really think I do. My beliefs and philosophies come almost entirely from personal experience, not books or teachers, and I've never found any particular religion or tradition that fits. And quite honestly, I'm comfortable with that. I never saw any reason to trust another mere mortal on spiritual issues when they don't know any more about it than I do. I do enjoy discussing spirituality with people, although this forum is obviously geared toward the Bible believers vs the atheists. And that's fine. I just pop in on the odd topic when I might have something to add. |
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 9, 2021 0:20:37 GMT
I agree to an extent but then it can also be useful to band together with those whose views are broadly similar to your own. That's great if you have that, although I don't really think I do. My beliefs and philosophies come almost entirely from personal experience, not books or teachers, and I've never found any particular religion or tradition that fits. And quite honestly, I'm comfortable with that. I never saw any reason to trust another mere mortal on spiritual issues when they don't know any more about it than I do. I do enjoy discussing spirituality with people, although this forum is obviously geared toward the Bible believers vs the atheists. And that's fine. I just pop in on the odd topic when I might have something to add. I was thinking more in terms of political and philosophical views rather than necessarily religious. |
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Post by mystery on Jan 9, 2021 14:11:29 GMT
That's great if you have that, although I don't really think I do. My beliefs and philosophies come almost entirely from personal experience, not books or teachers, and I've never found any particular religion or tradition that fits. And quite honestly, I'm comfortable with that. I never saw any reason to trust another mere mortal on spiritual issues when they don't know any more about it than I do. I do enjoy discussing spirituality with people, although this forum is obviously geared toward the Bible believers vs the atheists. And that's fine. I just pop in on the odd topic when I might have something to add. I was thinking more in terms of political and philosophical views rather than necessarily religious. I see. I'm not too fond of political labels, either. I usually just say that I lean Libertarian, although I don't entirely fit into that box, either. The problem with labels is that people often modify their views in order to conform to the group. I'm way too hard headed to do that.  |
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