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Post by mikef6 on Mar 1, 2021 17:20:19 GMT
I don’t think it makes a lick of sense to claim you’re logical and rational while supporting a party that promotes conspiracy theories and bigotry. Unlike purchasing a booth at, say, a Flat Earth conference where your entire goal is to convince attendees they’re wrong, the atheists going to CRAP…uh, excuse me, CPAC, support the Republican Party’s policies. They’re not going there to argue people out of their delusions; they’re going there because they believe those delusions, too… minus one of them.
Yesterday, the conservative group Atheists For Liberty celebrated a CPAC straw poll that claimed the most pressing issues for the party were election fraud (which didn’t occur), “Constitutional Rights” (as if they were seriously under attack), and immigration (because you know why). But since the issue most closely tied to the evangelical base is abortion, that was lowest on that particular list.
A party that promotes secular harmful irrational conspiracy theories isn’t any better than one that promotes religious harmful irrational conspiracy theories. Besides, there are also religious extremists at CPAC who want MORE fundamental religion in the mix.
I cannot even start to understand the thinking involved in a group like Atheists For Liberty.
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Post by moviemouth on Mar 1, 2021 19:22:28 GMT
Did they claim they are rational thinkers?
I would be interested in hearing their position though. I mean you can be an atheist and an idiot. There isn't any conflict there.
Try telling them election fraud didn't occur. Good luck with that.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 1, 2021 19:36:48 GMT
Did they claim they are rational thinkers? I would be interested in hearing their position though. I mean you can be an atheist and an idiot. There isn't any conflict there. Try telling them election fraud didn't occur. Good luck with that. Well Ben Shapiro (who conservatives constantly praise as their "intellectual champion") likes to advocate he's all about facts over feelings, even though he engages in some of the most fallacious, absurd arguments I've ever heard (he unironically compared buying furniture to health care), so yeah I would say they at least like the aesthetics of "logic and reason" even if they don't actually make cogent arguments.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 1, 2021 19:40:17 GMT
"I cannot even start to understand the thinking involved in a group like Atheists For Liberty."
My best guess is (like so many of the right wing organizations and think thanks) they're being funded by right wing billionaires trying to win over younger, more secular minded people to conservatism.
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Post by moviemouth on Mar 1, 2021 19:41:03 GMT
Did they claim they are rational thinkers? I would be interested in hearing their position though. I mean you can be an atheist and an idiot. There isn't any conflict there. Try telling them election fraud didn't occur. Good luck with that. Well Ben Shapiro (who conservatives constantly praise as their "intellectual champion") likes to advocate he's all about facts over feelings, even though he engages in some of the most fallacious, absurd arguments I've ever heard (he unironically compared buying furniture to health care), so yeah I would say they at least like the aesthetics of "logic and reason" even if they don't actually make cogent arguments. Yes, but he isn't one of the atheists obviously. Most people think they are rational and don't take the time to think about it much.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 1, 2021 19:43:40 GMT
Well Ben Shapiro (who conservatives constantly praise as their "intellectual champion") likes to advocate he's all about facts over feelings, even though he engages in some of the most fallacious, absurd arguments I've ever heard (he unironically compared buying furniture to health care), so yeah I would say they at least like the aesthetics of "logic and reason" even if they don't actually make cogent arguments. Yes, but he isn't one of the atheists obviously. Most people think they are rational and don't take the time to think about it much. Oh if you're talking about conservative atheists, those types like to cite Ayn Rand (and to a lesser degree Milton Friedman) as some sort of champions of intellectualism and logic, but even those people say dumb, goofy things too (Friedman actually advocated for trickle down economics for crying out loud).
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Post by moviemouth on Mar 1, 2021 19:45:36 GMT
Yes, but he isn't one of the atheists obviously. Most people think they are rational and don't take the time to think about it much. Of if you're talking about conservative atheists, those types like to cite Ayn Rand (and to a lesser degree Milton Friedman) as some sort of champion of intellectualism and logic, but even those people say dumb, goofy things too (Friedman actually advocated for trickle down economics for crying out loud). You are talking over my head now. I don't pay much attention to economics. I am an atheist and I am far from a perfect thinker and don't know how much I care about what is true. Atheists come in all types. There are narcissist atheists, nihilist atheists, humanist atheists, misanthropic atheists, sociopathic atheists, solipsist atheists etc.
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Post by moviemouth on Mar 1, 2021 20:02:59 GMT
Yes, but he isn't one of the atheists obviously. Most people think they are rational and don't take the time to think about it much. Oh if you're talking about conservative atheists, those types like to cite Ayn Rand (and to a lesser degree Milton Friedman) as some sort of champions of intellectualism and logic, but even those people say dumb, goofy things too (Friedman actually advocated for trickle down economics for crying out loud). I am 37 and only started paying attention to politics a little bit last year. I live more in my own mind and don't want much part of the outside world. I distrust all information to one extent or another. It seems that these Right-Wing atheists have just bought into the conspiracy theories for whatever reason.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Mar 1, 2021 22:41:11 GMT
Most of the senior Republicans (Trump included) know there wasn't any election fraud. But they know it plays well with their base to claim there was. As Adolf Hitler once said "“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” And that's what they're doing. And unfortunately that's not the only thing they're taking from his playbook...
I don't know anything about "Atheists for Liberty" but I'm guessing they will have an Alt-Right agenda and all they care about is getting that implemented and whatever lies they have to tell to get there is fine with them.
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Post by goz on Mar 1, 2021 22:56:42 GMT
Most of the senior Republicans (Trump included) know there wasn't any election fraud. But they know it plays well with their base to claim there was. As Adolf Hitler once said "“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” And that's what they're doing. And unfortunately that's not the only thing they're taking from his playbook... I don't know anything about "Atheists for Liberty" but I'm guessing they will have an Alt-Right agenda and all they care about is getting that implemented and whatever lies they have to tell to get there is fine with them. You are right. (pun intended) It has always intrigued me that Conservatives and religion go together, and yet Trump was ostensibly EVERYTHING that Conservative religious people are supposed to hate. It is also hypocritical that the current Republican Party is standing for the worst lies, conspiracy theories and disruption of anykind of moral compass exhibited in recent years in the USA. I posted this on the Politics Board,
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Mar 3, 2021 23:20:43 GMT
Most of the senior Republicans (Trump included) know there wasn't any election fraud. But they know it plays well with their base to claim there was. As Adolf Hitler once said "“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” And that's what they're doing. And unfortunately that's not the only thing they're taking from his playbook... I don't know anything about "Atheists for Liberty" but I'm guessing they will have an Alt-Right agenda and all they care about is getting that implemented and whatever lies they have to tell to get there is fine with them. You are right. (pun intended) It has always intrigued me that Conservatives and religion go together, and yet Trump was ostensibly EVERYTHING that Conservative religious people are supposed to hate. It is also hypocritical that the current Republican Party is standing for the worst lies, conspiracy theories and disruption of anykind of moral compass exhibited in recent years in the USA. I posted this on the Politics Board, The clue is generally that any group that has "Liberty" in their name is pretty much always against Liberty. At least Liberty for all. Maybe only for their very white friends. But that's about it... It's like when you have those communist dictatorships and they insist upon calling themselves the "Democratic Republic of..." - they're trying too hard.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Mar 3, 2021 23:40:45 GMT
I'm neither conservative per se and I'm definitely not religious, but even I know the two don't go hand in hand, that's actually an unfounded stereotype. I also don't understand why those who consider themselves conservative would support Trump, he was anything but in many respects.
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