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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 4, 2021 23:40:03 GMT
1) Everyone is saying that JJ Abrams upcoming Superman is going to be an African American version. Why? Just because Ta Nehisi Coates is writing it? As if Coates couldn't write anything other than a black character? That's dumb. Coates currently writes the whitest character there is in comics: Captain America. No one thought Mario Puzo was going to write the Italian Mafioso version of Superman. Why does everyone assume that Coates can only write a black Superman?
2) IF there was a black Superman it would most likely be the Calvin Harris version of the character, and not the regular Clark Kent version. For those who don't know Calvin Harris is the Superman of an alternate reality in the comics. Would that be okay, or would those of you who have an issue with this still be put out? And if so, why?
2 separate questions... 2 separate answers please. Thanks!
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 5, 2021 2:00:29 GMT
1) Coates’ writing tends to be very racially charged and when you factor in those Michael B. Jordan rumors from way back when, it wouldn’t be a surprise.
2) I’d honestly prefer Val-Zod over Calvin Ellis or a black Clark Kent, but I guess we’ll see. We still know almost nothing about the movie.
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csale
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Post by csale on Mar 9, 2021 0:31:33 GMT
I’m picturing this as an ElseWorlds story - maybe a Black Son take on the character? I think it has a lot of potential if they go that way.
Ta-Naheesi Coates has been very outspoken as a meme we of the black community coming into popular view from his “The Case for Reparations” article from The Atlantic a few years back. He has also written a few books that are about the Black experience- it is hard not to connect him to a possible Black Superman, although you are right regarding Cap.
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 9, 2021 1:17:06 GMT
1) Everyone is saying that JJ Abrams upcoming Superman is going to be an African American version. Why? Just because Ta Nehisi Coates is writing it? As if Coates couldn't write anything other than a black character? That's dumb. Coates currently writes the whitest character there is in comics: Captain America. No one thought Mario Puzo was going to write the Italian Mafioso version of Superman. Why does everyone assume that Coates can only write a black Superman? Oh GET OUT--we live in times where the political slant of everything is in your face, it's COMING TO AMERICA TOO. They hired Puzo for Superman because of his celebrity status from the Godfather, not because he was championing Italian rights--in fact it is the opposite. The Godfather pushed a negative image of Italians and popularized it.
They didn't hire this writer for any other reason than politics. Abrams said he was committed to pushing wokeness as much as possible after the BLM stuff started.
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csale
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Post by csale on Mar 9, 2021 1:20:28 GMT
1) Everyone is saying that JJ Abrams upcoming Superman is going to be an African American version. Why? Just because Ta Nehisi Coates is writing it? As if Coates couldn't write anything other than a black character? That's dumb. Coates currently writes the whitest character there is in comics: Captain America. No one thought Mario Puzo was going to write the Italian Mafioso version of Superman. Why does everyone assume that Coates can only write a black Superman? Oh GET OUT--we live in times where the political slant of everything is in your face, it's COMING TO AMERICA TOO. They hired Puzo for Superman because of his celebrity status from the Godfather, not because he was championing Italian rights--in fact it is the opposite. The Godfather pushed a negative image of Italians and popularized it.
They didn't hire this writer for any other reason than politics. Abrams said he was committed to pushing wokeness as much as possible after the BLM stuff started. This is a talented writer who is well respected not only in the industry but also by academics. His Black Panther run is well received- let’s not trivialize him because of his race either
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 9, 2021 1:36:18 GMT
This is a talented writer who is well respected not only in the industry but also by academics. His Black Panther run is well received- let’s not trivialize him because of his race either I am trivializing him because he is clearly a political operative. They do not hire people based on the audience's interest in them--they hire based on what politics they sell. Do you think reparations are popular with most Americans (or at least the ones who would have been lining up to see Superman 1978)? Yet they don't care that this guy might turn off audiences for his views? What happened to making money? Supply and demand?
Get Out was ballyhooed as some great thing even though it used to be common for 10 or more horror films to come out every month. Yet we are supposed to be impressed by one single film? It's bullshit politics. Not merit-based decisions.
I don't care about Superman at all--god knows we don't need more superheroes--this hiring is all about politics and wanting to browbeat the public with another message about racial injustice.
This is so much like Mosfilm in the USSR era--because they have the apparatchiks creating the "art." There's no connection to public taste or interests. One size fits all, unless it's Crazy Rich Asians or something. They have their special Chinese outreach projects.
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csale
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Post by csale on Mar 9, 2021 5:50:37 GMT
This is a talented writer who is well respected not only in the industry but also by academics. His Black Panther run is well received- let’s not trivialize him because of his race either I am trivializing him because he is clearly a political operative. They do not hire people based on the audience's interest in them--they hire based on what politics they sell. Do you think reparations are popular with most Americans (or at least the ones who would have been lining up to see Superman 1978)? Yet they don't care that this guy might turn off audiences for his views? What happened to making money? Supply and demand?
Get Out was ballyhooed as some great thing even though it used to be common for 10 or more horror films to come out every month. Yet we are supposed to be impressed by one single film? It's bullshit politics. Not merit-based decisions.
I don't care about Superman at all--god knows we don't need more superheroes--this hiring is all about politics and wanting to browbeat the public with another message about racial injustice.
This is so much like Mosfilm in the USSR era--because they have the apparatchiks creating the "art." There's no connection to public taste or interests. One size fits all, unless it's Crazy Rich Asians or something. They have their special Chinese outreach projects.
Seems like you just have a problem with social justice. This isn’t a money issue - just ask Marvel who have been quite successful trying to embrace other cultures |
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 9, 2021 6:09:02 GMT
Seems like you just have a problem with social justice. This isn’t a money issue - just ask Marvel who have been quite successful trying to embrace other cultures Well they aren't making adventure entertainment stories--they are doing political messages. That's the main goal. That's why they blackwashed characters--it was an agenda. It is true that in the 60s Marvel did that sort of thing on a different level--the irony is that their most popular property of the 70s--Conan, was much the opposite of their social justice message. The audience wanted adventures not agendas.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 9, 2021 7:15:56 GMT
I don't want to mock anyone in case they DO go the Black Superman route, buuuuut...yeah.
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Post by politicidal on Mar 9, 2021 15:25:11 GMT
I am trivializing him because he is clearly a political operative. They do not hire people based on the audience's interest in them--they hire based on what politics they sell. Do you think reparations are popular with most Americans (or at least the ones who would have been lining up to see Superman 1978)? Yet they don't care that this guy might turn off audiences for his views? What happened to making money? Supply and demand?
Get Out was ballyhooed as some great thing even though it used to be common for 10 or more horror films to come out every month. Yet we are supposed to be impressed by one single film? It's bullshit politics. Not merit-based decisions.
I don't care about Superman at all--god knows we don't need more superheroes--this hiring is all about politics and wanting to browbeat the public with another message about racial injustice.
This is so much like Mosfilm in the USSR era--because they have the apparatchiks creating the "art." There's no connection to public taste or interests. One size fits all, unless it's Crazy Rich Asians or something. They have their special Chinese outreach projects.
This isn’t a money issue - just ask Marvel who have been quite successful trying to embrace other cultures That's the politically correct way to put it.
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Mar 9, 2021 18:08:39 GMT
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Mar 9, 2021 21:05:26 GMT
I am trivializing him because he is clearly a political operative. They do not hire people based on the audience's interest in them--they hire based on what politics they sell. Do you think reparations are popular with most Americans (or at least the ones who would have been lining up to see Superman 1978)? Yet they don't care that this guy might turn off audiences for his views? What happened to making money? Supply and demand?
Get Out was ballyhooed as some great thing even though it used to be common for 10 or more horror films to come out every month. Yet we are supposed to be impressed by one single film? It's bullshit politics. Not merit-based decisions.
I don't care about Superman at all--god knows we don't need more superheroes--this hiring is all about politics and wanting to browbeat the public with another message about racial injustice.
This is so much like Mosfilm in the USSR era--because they have the apparatchiks creating the "art." There's no connection to public taste or interests. One size fits all, unless it's Crazy Rich Asians or something. They have their special Chinese outreach projects.
Seems like you just have a problem with social justice. This isn’t a money issue - just ask Marvel who have been quite successful trying to embrace other cultures Marvel isn't embracing other cultures because they want to. They're terrified of being called racists or misogynists or homophobes and so they adjust their characters accordingly. If they didn't have an SJW gun to their heads they'd be spending their time with a fanbase gun to their heads. This is all so Abrams can jump on a bandwagon. I doubt he really cares at all about racial politics. He just wants to make himself look good.
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csale
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Post by csale on Mar 9, 2021 23:22:25 GMT
Seems like you just have a problem with social justice. This isn’t a money issue - just ask Marvel who have been quite successful trying to embrace other cultures Marvel isn't embracing other cultures because they want to. They're terrified of being called racists or misogynists or homophobes and so they adjust their characters accordingly. If they didn't have an SJW gun to their heads they'd be spending their time with a fanbase gun to their heads. This is all so Abrams can jump on a bandwagon. I doubt he really cares at all about racial politics. He just wants to make himself look good. Could it actually be that sensibilities change over time? I’m a child of the 80s and the language we used used and the limited perspective we saw the world through just doesn’t cut it anymore. Growth doesn’t equal pandering... Tell me how a Muslim superhero is somehow a bad choice... how about promoting a black super hero? Btw- Black Panther is a product of the 60s as well so... guess they were scared then too? I have a daughter whose favourite character is a female Wolverine (x-23). You will never convince me that more women in comics is a problem. My heterosexual daughter also enjoys the Young Avengers and the Runaways who both have strong LGBTQ representation - she will likely not grow up with more understanding and compassion than many others - this really is not a bad thing here. I have more hesitation with a Black Superman because my nostalgia for the character is so strong - but I have an interest in what they chose to do with it. Does being white actually affect his character? Perhaps it would be even more compelling in a time of BLM to put make the most powerful person in the DCU a minority who continues to stay his hand and promote the very best morals in a society that often treats him as a second-class citizen... This is all just speculation at this point anyway - but at the end of the day, just give me a compelling story! |
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Mar 10, 2021 0:02:55 GMT
Marvel isn't embracing other cultures because they want to. They're terrified of being called racists or misogynists or homophobes and so they adjust their characters accordingly. If they didn't have an SJW gun to their heads they'd be spending their time with a fanbase gun to their heads. This is all so Abrams can jump on a bandwagon. I doubt he really cares at all about racial politics. He just wants to make himself look good. Could it actually be that sensibilities change over time? I’m a child of the 80s and the language we used used and the limited perspective we saw the world through just doesn’t cut it anymore. Growth doesn’t equal pandering... Tell me how a Muslim superhero is somehow a bad choice... how about promoting a black super hero? Btw- Black Panther is a product of the 60s as well so... guess they were scared then too? I have a daughter whose favourite character is a female Wolverine (x-23). You will never convince me that more women in comics is a problem. My heterosexual daughter also enjoys the Young Avengers and the Runaways who both have strong LGBTQ representation - she will likely not grow up with more understanding and compassion than many others - this really is not a bad thing here. I have more hesitation with a Black Superman because my nostalgia for the character is so strong - but I have an interest in what they chose to do with it. Does being white actually affect his character? Perhaps it would be even more compelling in a time of BLM to put make the most powerful person in the DCU a minority who continues to stay his hand and promote the very best morals in a society that often treats him as a second-class citizen... This is all just speculation at this point anyway - but at the end of the day, just give me a compelling story! Sensibilities absolutely do change, and I’m not saying blacks/gays/women in comics and movies is a bad thing, but in this day and age I think bullying/fear has a lot to do with it. If there isn’t a black character in a movie BLM throws a catastrophic hissy fit and starts accusing people of racism. If there isn’t a gay character the word homophobic gets thrown around. Is some of this for actual diversity? Probably, yes. But a lot of it feels like forced agenda pushing because of the current state we’re living in.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Mar 11, 2021 9:26:37 GMT
1) Given the current cinematic trend of pushing minority groups to the forefront, I assume a lot of people believe Warner Brothers will want to be seen as part of this new progressive movement. The fact that an African-American writer is writing the script would seem to them to confirm their presumptions. I obviously have no idea whether the black Superman rumours are true or not and honestly haven't given it much thought.
2) I have read very few Superman comics (Batman was always my go-to) and know nothing about this Calvin Harris character. Thinking about it now, I don't think an alternate version of the Man of Steel would bother me all that much, if at all. What matters most to me is a good original story, well-rounded characters and an engaging threat/nemesis. The last standalone Superman film felt like a rehash of what had been done before - only much better - back in the 70s and 80s and did a terrible job with its characters.
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