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Post by Skaathar on Mar 21, 2021 2:51:26 GMT
To be fair with Whedon, if he was allowed a 4 hour movie that ethics discussion probably would have been handled more organically. If he needed more time for an ethical discussion, he probably shouldn’t have wasted so much time on that pointless Russian family. Come now. As useless as that scene was it's at least not as useless as having an icelandic choir sing an impromptu hymn to send Aquaman off or for one of them to sniff his shirt. Or even the pointlessly long walk Aquaman had on the docks that just had to be done slow mo.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 21, 2021 2:56:38 GMT
If he needed more time for an ethical discussion, he probably shouldn’t have wasted so much time on that pointless Russian family. Come now. As useless as that scene was it's at least not as useless as having an icelandic choir sing an impromptu hymn to send Aquaman off or for one of them to sniff his shirt. Or even the pointlessly long walk Aquaman had on the docks that just had to be done slow mo. The Russian family aren’t just in one scene. They’re sprinkled throughout the movie, to the point where they’re practically their own subplot. Considering that WB reportedly had a mandate that the movie couldn’t be longer than two hours, it’s odd that Whedon chose to include that, especially if he needed to devote more time to the ethical discussion surrounding bringing Superman back. Besides, it doesn’t even make sense that there would be a family there to begin with. Why are there people living in a nuclear hotspot? It’s even more ridiculous when we later see Superman saving an entire building of people.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 21, 2021 3:02:37 GMT
Come now. As useless as that scene was it's at least not as useless as having an icelandic choir sing an impromptu hymn to send Aquaman off or for one of them to sniff his shirt. Or even the pointlessly long walk Aquaman had on the docks that just had to be done slow mo. The Russian family aren’t just in one scene. They’re sprinkled throughout the movie, to the point where they’re practically their own subplot. Considering that WB reportedly had a mandate that the movie couldn’t be longer than two hours, it’s odd that Whedon chose to include that, especially if he needed to devote more time to the ethical discussion surrounding bringing Superman back. Besides, it doesn’t even make sense that there would be a family there to begin with. Why are there people living in a nuclear hotspot? It’s even more ridiculous when we later see Superman saving an entire building of people. I haven't watched theatrical cut of JL for a few years so can't be sure, but I don't recall it being mentioned that that area was a radioactive hotspot, merely that it was the site of an abandoned nuclear powerplant.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 21, 2021 3:43:15 GMT
The Russian family aren’t just in one scene. They’re sprinkled throughout the movie, to the point where they’re practically their own subplot. Considering that WB reportedly had a mandate that the movie couldn’t be longer than two hours, it’s odd that Whedon chose to include that, especially if he needed to devote more time to the ethical discussion surrounding bringing Superman back. Besides, it doesn’t even make sense that there would be a family there to begin with. Why are there people living in a nuclear hotspot? It’s even more ridiculous when we later see Superman saving an entire building of people. I haven't watched theatrical cut of JL for a few years so can't be sure, but I don't recall it being mentioned that that area was a radioactive hotspot, merely that it was the site of an abandoned nuclear powerplant. Come to think of it, I don’t think the theatrical cut mentions that. I guess Whedon cut that explanation out so he could justify there being civilians for the heroes to save, but that just makes it weird that the heroes still cause collateral damage. The bottom line is that the movie would’ve been better off not including that stuff to begin with. The time wasted on that Russian family would’ve been better spent focusing on the Justice League themselves. In hindsight, I think that was the biggest mistake Whedon made with the movie.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 21, 2021 3:59:20 GMT
I haven't watched theatrical cut of JL for a few years so can't be sure, but I don't recall it being mentioned that that area was a radioactive hotspot, merely that it was the site of an abandoned nuclear powerplant. Come to think of it, I don’t think the theatrical cut mentions that. I guess Whedon cut that explanation out so he could justify there being civilians for the heroes to save, but that just makes it weird that the heroes still cause collateral damage. The bottom line is that the movie would’ve been better off not including that stuff to begin with. The time wasted on that Russian family would’ve been better spent focusing on the Justice League themselves. In hindsight, I think that was the biggest mistake Whedon made with the movie. One of the biggest complaints people and critics had against MOS and BvS was that the heroes didn't do enough to save civilians from the destruction they caused. After seeing Snyder's JL cut, it seems there's not that much of that in the movie either outside of Wonder Woman saving those school kids. So I feel like Whedon added that Russian family in order for the heroes to have someone to save in the final act, and because he didn't want them to come out of nowhere he spent a bit of time trying to flesh them out. Now that said, he handled it badly and I agree that that whole angle was wasted time. But I do understand why he put it in and it might even have been something the studio execs pushed for instead of just being Whedon's idea.
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Post by dazz on Mar 21, 2021 7:52:44 GMT
I haven't watched theatrical cut of JL for a few years so can't be sure, but I don't recall it being mentioned that that area was a radioactive hotspot, merely that it was the site of an abandoned nuclear powerplant. Come to think of it, I don’t think the theatrical cut mentions that. I guess Whedon cut that explanation out so he could justify there being civilians for the heroes to save, but that just makes it weird that the heroes still cause collateral damage. The bottom line is that the movie would’ve been better off not including that stuff to begin with. The time wasted on that Russian family would’ve been better spent focusing on the Justice League themselves. In hindsight, I think that was the biggest mistake Whedon made with the movie. I don't recall were the family and the building in the dome? I thought they were on the outskirts of it and the team wrecked shit inside the dome, until things started getting screwy when the motherboxes were almost synchronised at which point Superman and Flash rushed out to save them, plus it's like 2 minutes 3 max of the movie in order to show the team, Superman especially caring about innocent lives, something even BVS didn't address properly, their version of that was moving the fight out of the city, 3 minutes of screen time wouldn't really develop any of the other characters too much, and without it we lose Flash and Superman sort of bonding and showing Clark express any sort of levity and care for humanity, so I don't see how that's the biggest mistake of the TC. Imo the worst mistake of the TC is the overly forcing of "funny" moments quite a few of which weren't funny or aren't funny outside of the initial viewing, that and choppy editing.
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Post by dazz on Mar 21, 2021 8:03:54 GMT
The theatrical version of JL does feel more like a Superman story, which is ironic, since the marketing went out of its way to avoid showing him. With that said, the “Do you bleed?” callback doesn’t really work. As tavaresmd said, it breaks the impression that Superman is “confused” and “doesn’t know who he is” as Wonder Woman puts it. It’s also jarring when you consider how Superman is characterized in the rest of the film. It seems like it was basically just there for the sake of a joke from Batman, and also probably so Whedon could take a shot at Snyder. I dunno I think both versions are guilty of this, with the TC I can easily see it as Clark is confused he can only remember things close to his death, which includes the conflict with Batman and possibly in patches such as he remembers fighting Batman, Batman creating the spear, the spear killing him and some other stuff, which kind of plays out in the SC also, just without the dialogue because when you think about it who did Clark attack who was not attacking him in that scene? Batman, everyone else was clearly a group and Cyborg attacked first, but the second he see's Batman he locks in and dispatches everyone else as quick as possible just to get to Batman who is not behaving like a threat or even an adversary, so both kind of have that thing, only the Snyder cut shows how Clark is gradually coming to his senses a bit better, by having him not speak until he and Lois are back at the farm and her making note that he's finally said something.
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Post by scabab on Mar 24, 2021 18:49:57 GMT
The Superman and Flash race scene was a really good scene that was in the TC.
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