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Post by rizdek on Apr 12, 2021 18:31:59 GMT
"Daughter and father are now the subject of harassment, including death threats, from the highly-Christian community."
And this should surprise...no one.
At least they're just threats. Look what the nice Roman Catholic Church did to the Cathars. And they were just a different version of Christian.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 12, 2021 19:18:52 GMT
"Daughter and father are now the subject of harassment, including death threats, from the highly-Christian community."
And this should surprise...no one.
At least they're just threats. Look what the nice Roman Catholic Church did to the Cathars. And they were just a different version of Christian.
OMG, yet another example of the demonization of an 'other'. How can anyone claim that any sect is the only, perfect sect? This just says to me that it is all manmade.
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Post by gadreel on Apr 12, 2021 20:13:15 GMT
"Daughter and father are now the subject of harassment, including death threats, from the highly-Christian community."
And this should surprise...no one.
At least they're just threats. Look what the nice Roman Catholic Church did to the Cathars. And they were just a different version of Christian.
OMG, yet another example of the demonization of an 'other'. How can anyone claim that any sect is the only, perfect sect? This just says to me that it is all manmade. Any one that does not accept that religion is man made is fool9in9g themselves. I mean for us as believers it is a human way of interpreting the great truth, but it's so clearly culturally informed that to suggest that the explanation is anything other than a cultural lens on observation interpreted by man is ridiculous.
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Post by tickingmask on Apr 12, 2021 20:35:46 GMT
Daughter and father are now the subject of harassment, including death threats, from the highly-Christian community. Do we just take your word for this, or do you have a link to an objective news source that confirms it?
How many death threats are we talking about, here? Have they been reported to the police? What are the police doing to follow them up?
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Post by Admin on Apr 12, 2021 23:10:47 GMT
Point being, Christianity isn't the problem. Do you think only religious nutbags are against the death penalty? Because most anti-abortion people I know are against it not for religious reasons, but because they see it as a death sentence of the innocent. Granted, the line between religion and ethics is a fine one, but it is a line nonetheless and it's on proud display every time someone says they don't need God to be humanitarian. But the anti-abortion people stop caring about the infant’s welfare the moment it is born. I hate it when people say that because it's bullshit. The abortion advocates like to say we don't have rights in the womb, but after we're born, we're protected by the rights everyone agrees we have. In other words, the kill becomes illegal the moment we breath air. To say that pro-lifers don't care about our lives after we're born is to completely misunderstand what it means to be "pro-life." And besides, if that were true, then it must also be true for those who protest someone's imprisonment, and you must take in every animal you swerved to avoid hitting on the road. Saving a life doesn't make you responsible for it. This is where you tell me that anyone who tries to save a baby from being killed in the womb must adopt that kid to preclude the possibility of a bad life. Newsflash: Nobody is guaranteed a good life. The position you just asserted is a disgraceful one.
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Post by Admin on Apr 12, 2021 23:14:35 GMT
The mother's life takes precedence, but what about the baby's life? I've been thinking about your animal rescue parallel. If we apply similar logic, shouldn't you kill them instead to preclude the possibility of being abused? My views on pets is if they can’t be placed with a loving family, then destroying them is the merciful thing. Mercy killings are to relieve incurable suffering, and not every animal without a loving family needs such relief.
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Post by Admin on Apr 12, 2021 23:32:04 GMT
Mercy killings are to relieve incurable suffering, and not every animal without a loving family needs such relief. I love them, but they are dogs. Like I said, if there is no one who wants them, then killing them is better than the misery of living in kennel with 100 other terrorized, stressed out feral beasts with no human to love or work them for the rest of their short lives. Domesticated animals live to serve the humans who domesticated them. The do-gooder talks of mercy, but never about the quality of mercy. You're talking about quality of life, and you're imposing your own on others.
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Post by Admin on Apr 12, 2021 23:35:47 GMT
I hate it when people say that because it's bullshit. The abortion advocates like to say we don't have rights in the womb, but after we're born, we're protected by the rights everyone agrees we have. In other words, the kill becomes illegal the moment we breath air. To say that pro-lifers don't care about our lives after we're born is to completely misunderstand what it means to be "pro-life." And besides, if that were true, then it must also be true for those who protest someone's imprisonment, and you must take in every animal you swerved to avoid hitting on the road. Saving a life doesn't make you responsible for it. This is where you tell me that anyone who tries to save a baby from being killed in the womb must adopt that kid to preclude the possibility of a bad life. Newsflash: Nobody is guaranteed a good life. The position you just asserted is a disgraceful one. It’s not bullshit. The same people yelling the loudest outside an abortion clinic are they people who yell evil communism over universal healthcare. If you really care the baby, then you should care about the adult it potentially will become. You don’t. I don’t see that happening much. Quite the opposite. There you go again, presuming way too much. It appears that you think you know people better than they know themselves. At any rate, I've already presented my argument. Let me know when you want to address it instead of dismissing it by regurgitating the same debunked talking points.
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Post by Admin on Apr 13, 2021 0:13:06 GMT
There you go again, presuming way too much. It appears that you think you know people better than they know themselves. At any rate, I've already presented my argument. Let me know when you want to address it instead of dismissing it by regurgitating the same debunked talking points. You don’t care about people, other than certain ones. You are a conservative Christian, are you not? There you go again. If being a conservative Christian means caring only about unborn life, then no, I'm not. This is your problem, Paul; you think the boxes you put people in and the labels you give them tell you all you need to know about them.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 13, 2021 4:14:58 GMT
Mercy killings are to relieve incurable suffering, and not every animal without a loving family needs such relief. I love them, but they are dogs. Like I said, if there is no one who wants them, then killing them is better than the misery of living in kennel with 100 other terrorized, stressed out feral beasts with no human to love or work them for the rest of their short lives. Domesticated animals live to serve the humans who domesticated them. The do-gooder talks of mercy, but never about the quality of mercy. I know this portion of the thread is about abortion, but... I have a relevant story about the pet euthanasia debate, which is the point being made by your bolded type. I worked for a shelter, after sitting on its board for more than ten years, and while I was employed, the full-kill/no-kill debate became an issue. Many on the board were for being a low-kill or no-kill facility, but one board member, a retired veterinarian from Germany who had been held by the Russians after capture during WWII, had a different opinion. He thought it was inhumane and cruel to keep a dog kenneled in a cage for months on end, when its likelihood of being adopted was near zero, due to behavior issues or health issues. He, himself, had been kept in a cage and treated inhumanely by his Russian captors, and he said that he would rather be dead than kept in a cage. Even though he was finally released and came to the USA, that time of imprisonment weighed heavily on his psyche, some five decades later. Very few 'special needs' dogs are ever adopted, unless the rescue group has the funding to maintain a humane environment for those special needs dogs, and funding is hard to come by. As much as I love animals, I would rather see a dog humanely put down than suffer confinement, neglect, or possible violence if it is adopted by someone to put into the fight ring. I have seen animals that have been hoarded, caged too long, torn up by other dogs, and the only humane answer is euthanasia. There aren't enough homes for them all. I wish humans had the option of doctor-assisted suicide if they are terminally ill and suffering. Each individual should have the right to make a judgement on the quality of the life they have remaining, especially if in uncontrollable pain. There is a difference between living and being forced to live in pain. Quality of life has to be an issue in the debate, in animal sheltering and in the case of a fetus being unwanted by the mother. Ideally, all birth control would work, no woman would be impregnated without her consent, and all babies would be wanted and lovingly cared for. But that isn't reality. Any more than the notion that there are enough homes for all unwanted pets. Ideally, more pet owners would spay and neuter to prevent unwanted litters, but ask any shelter employee how likely that is to happen.
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Post by Admin on Apr 13, 2021 5:42:31 GMT
There you go again. If being a conservative Christian means caring only about unborn life, then no, I'm not. This is your problem, Paul; you think the boxes you put people in and the labels you give them tell you all you need to know about them. By my life’s worth of keen observation and honest participation, I don’t see a lot otherwise Christian conservatives in the postmodern sense caring much about people. I’ve seen many Christians who place their mammon second to God be very caring. And there are liberal pro-lifers, who are for real pro-lifers. Joe Biden is one. He believes to it is better the slow down the reasons for abortion like being able to afford a third or fourth child; childcare for working mothers who can afford a nice, if subsidized apartment, and put food on the table. But anti-abortion just mean recriminalizing something women have been doing since forever. And the wealthier women can still get safe abortions from “special clinics” while the poor will resort to the “back alleys.” And the glaring example of how anti-life Trumpist Christians are is their abysmal attitude toward Covid-19 and demonization of all Libs, Dems, lefties, etc, is at best ignorant and borderline evil at worst. And any group of people who still thinks Trump or someone like him has been blessed by God to lead this nation back to greatness (whatever they mean by that) is a fool. DISCLAIMER: I’m not talking about all Christians nor pointing fingers at anyone in particular. You’re the best. If being "pro-choice" doesn't mean pro-abortion, then being "pro-life" doesn't mean anti-abortion. As for me personally, I don't see it as either a religious or political issue. I prefer a more objective approach to things than you apparently do, and abortion seems to be no exception.
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