Downey
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Post by Downey on Apr 26, 2021 19:41:49 GMT
It is ugly and the half mask looks like his head is cut-off. I keep thinking Ray Liotta in Hannibal. In that costume with the wrap around sunglasses, he looks like an Avenger Pimp. But if you like, that's okay. I'll take his wrap-around goggles over the US Agent's helmet. What's the difference between the Agent's helmet and Captain America's? A lot of the noob criticisms from people on this thread sound like you lot have just come from planet zog into the world of Marvel costume design which let's face it isn't exactly all that ground breaking from the movies. Has a year since the last MCU movie really messed with your heads that much!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 23:29:17 GMT
What's rather surprising is how little impact these series seem to be having on the MCU at large. 2 years ago I was worried their streaming series would become their crutch, to get more money out of us in lieu of trying with more blockbuster tent pole releases. The good news seems to be MCU movies will be back on the agenda in just as big a way. I might've been done with the MCU had they veered too far into streamed mini-series. I knew these series would have almost zero impact on the main saga, other than serving as (arguably skippable) side adventures/spin offs. Marvel/Disney are too smart to make these things essential viewing and knew it would alienate general audiences who didn’t subscribe. There were a lot of people saying these shows would be the new main driving force of the MCU. I’m so glad they were wrong. And I’m very excited to hear there’s going to be a Cap 4 with Sam on the big screen where it belongs.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 29, 2021 18:24:37 GMT
I didn't mind the politics, but the speech at the end was overlong and clunky. The fact that the message was so muddled makes you wonder what the point of including it was. It was strange the way they had Sam relate to Karli to the very end, even after they showed her own followers questioning her. Looking forward to seeing more of Zemo (great character, better actor), but I'm curious as to why he would lead a team of superpowered beings. This isn't the comics, MCU Zemo hates them with a passion. He talked at length about it on this very show. He already tried to kill himself once, and was content to let Bucky kill him. Not sure what they could do to threaten or coerce him into doing it. Like I said, I'm all in because I want more Zemo, I just hope they can make more sense of it than they did with the Sharon Carter turn. I don't know; I thought there were one or two bright spots in Sam's speech. It wasn't all bad for me, but you're right in that it does lose coherence at multiple moments. The writing could have been crisper. I could empathize with Karli to the degree that had she been motivated in a more positive and constructive direction, she'd have actually been an asset to the people she was trying to help. While I agree that the Carter turn was somewhat sloppy, as a pure piece of entertainment, I like the idea that an "all American" has sort of been disenfranchised and turned to cohesion and organized crime. It shows that anyone, no matter how privileged or respected, is just "one bad day" away from embracing anarchy. There's a story there that they need to tell, and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think Zemo would head a group of enhanced if it meant taking out a larger group of the same or a very strategic target that lined up with his world view. He's an opportunist at his core. At the very least, I think he'd do it just to be released from prison to plan a more permanent escape. These are all fair criticisms, even if I don't entirely agree with all of them. I think the political aspects of the show were shallow, and the criticism of it as such by the fans is somewhat overplayed, in my opinion. The show doesn't really say much more than "racism bad," which I assume is a message that most could get behind anyway. The other piece of the political messaging in the show is about ensuring that the blip refugees are not completely disenfranchised and have some agency in deciding their ultimate fate. Sam's speech doesn't consider the vast and complex logistical concerns of the GRC's work. It's an emotionally-driven speech that basically says, 'let's all try to get along and stop calling each other names.' Could they have spent less time on the political messaging? Sure, but I believe the show runners' vision was to take some of the aspects of the MCU that typically get glossed over and try to put them in a real-world political framework. Whether they succeeded or not is up to the viewer. I'm pretty neutral on the outcome of their efforts. Regarding Barnes, the series does struggle with fleshing out a deprogrammed Winter Soldier. I think that's because there isn't much in the source material to draw from. Barnes is far more exciting and engaging as a killing machine. His (obligatory) issues with PTSD and trying to make amends slow down the narrative considerably (but not to the point of being intolerable). This is essentially the case in the comics as well. While Walker does become a murderer in the series, I think it's an overreach to label him a psychopath. He is not a likable person, and I found myself enjoying that aspect of the character. His team-up with Sam and Bucky didn't seem abrupt to me as that was his stated goal since the beginning. Sam and Bucky were basically biased against him because he was selected to be the new Captain America, but it wasn't a title he bestowed upon himself.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 29, 2021 22:44:44 GMT
I don't know; I thought there were one or two bright spots in Sam's speech. It wasn't all bad for me, but you're right in that it does lose coherence at multiple moments. The writing could have been crisper. I could empathize with Karli to the degree that had she been motivated in a more positive and constructive direction, she'd have actually been an asset to the people she was trying to help. While I agree that the Carter turn was somewhat sloppy, as a pure piece of entertainment, I like the idea that an "all American" has sort of been disenfranchised and turned to cohesion and organized crime. It shows that anyone, no matter how privileged or respected, is just "one bad day" away from embracing anarchy. There's a story there that they need to tell, and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think Zemo would head a group of enhanced if it meant taking out a larger group of the same or a very strategic target that lined up with his world view. He's an opportunist at his core. At the very least, I think he'd do it just to be released from prison to plan a more permanent escape. These are all fair criticisms, even if I don't entirely agree with all of them. I think the political aspects of the show were shallow, and the criticism of it as such by the fans is somewhat overplayed, in my opinion. The show doesn't really say much more than "racism bad," which I assume is a message that most could get behind anyway. The other piece of the political messaging in the show is about ensuring that the blip refugees are not completely disenfranchised and have some agency in deciding their ultimate fate. Sam's speech doesn't consider the vast and complex logistical concerns of the GRC's work. It's an emotionally-driven speech that basically says, 'let's all try to get along and stop calling each other names.' Could they have spent less time on the political messaging? Sure, but I believe the show runners' vision was to take some of the aspects of the MCU that typically get glossed over and try to put them in a real-world political framework. Whether they succeeded or not is up to the viewer. I'm pretty neutral on the outcome of their efforts. Regarding Barnes, the series does struggle with fleshing out a deprogrammed Winter Soldier. I think that's because there isn't much in the source material to draw from. Barnes is far more exciting and engaging as a killing machine. His (obligatory) issues with PTSD and trying to make amends slow down the narrative considerably (but not to the point of being intolerable). This is essentially the case in the comics as well. While Walker does become a murderer in the series, I think it's an overreach to label him a psychopath. He is not a likable person, and I found myself enjoying that aspect of the character. His team-up with Sam and Bucky didn't seem abrupt to me as that was his stated goal since the beginning. Sam and Bucky were basically biased against him because he was selected to be the new Captain America, but it wasn't a title he bestowed upon himself. I enjoyed Walker's minor act of redemption in the finale. He's a dick, he's no Steve; but he isn't evil, either. I like that the show gave the audience one more reason to feel conflicted about his character. I think the messaging came across so haphazard because they had to rewrite the entire thing late in the game. Apparently it was originally going to be about a pandemic of all things. So they switched it to something topical but not so much as to be depressing, and (as you pointed out) pretty much everyone would agree with without getting super in depth into 'politics,' not that civil or human rights should be political. Bucky got the short end in the story, but ultimately the show accomplished what it set out to do: give a little more depth to these secondary characters and get audiences excited to see more of them in the future.
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Post by James on May 1, 2021 17:22:36 GMT
8/10
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 18, 2021 9:48:43 GMT
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was "political" without being "politicized." It's tough to be offended by politics that are so vague and elementary as to be equivalent to those in a YA science fiction novel series. I do not understand all of the unrest over it, but people have to be upset about something, I guess. The show is about as "political" as an installment of the Hunger Games. The problem with that aspect of the show, for me, is not that it's offensive so much as it was on the nose at times. I think tribalism has become so rampant that people box themselves into a corner complaining about anything that smells of the other side, so it's less what is being said than who is the one saying it. Because yeah, "racism is bad" and "we should help disenfranchised people although those people shouldn't commit acts of violence" are about as kid gloved as you can get. I can think of two pieces of entertainment way more political and complex - they were called Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Captain America: Civil War...
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 18, 2021 9:59:14 GMT
8/10. I thought it was pretty solid, and a big step up from Wandavision (speaking of "strange moral messages").
-Is Daniel Bruhl's Zemo the best movie portrayal of Lex Luther we've gotten?
-Sharon's villain turn admittedly felt random and out of character, but is it wrong that I'm cool with it just because I never liked her?
-I'm mixed on Karli. Her motivation was interesting, but they kinda stopped there. She reminded me of Ghost from AM&TW is that regard. I also wasn't big on the actress.
-I was fine with Walker. It would have been easy to make him another Homelander, but it bounces around enough to keep him a bit more nuanced
-yeah, it's more focused on Sam than Bucky, but let's be honest: this show isn't about Bucky or even "The Falcon", it's about the Captain America title.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 19, 2021 23:33:58 GMT
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was "political" without being "politicized." It's tough to be offended by politics that are so vague and elementary as to be equivalent to those in a YA science fiction novel series. I do not understand all of the unrest over it, but people have to be upset about something, I guess. The show is about as "political" as an installment of the Hunger Games. The problem with that aspect of the show, for me, is not that it's offensive so much as it was on the nose at times. I think tribalism has become so rampant that people box themselves into a corner complaining about anything that smells of the other side, so it's less what is being said than who is the one saying it. Because yeah, "racism is bad" and "we should help disenfranchised people although those people shouldn't commit acts of violence" are about as kid gloved as you can get. I can think of two pieces of entertainment way more political and complex - they were called Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Captain America: Civil War... Great summation and I couldn’t agree more. Tribalism is so insidious people often don’t realize just how much it affects their interactions with others. Civil War was far more nuanced and less on the nose.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on May 7, 2022 2:22:54 GMT
9/10
Sebastian and Anthony had great chemistry together and carried the show pretty well. I'm glad that they tackled race issues and i liked the political commentary. Comics tackled this stuff, no reason why it shouldn't be tackled in the series or movies.
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